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Message started by nickbilljim on 03/15/20 at 11:46:48

Title: confused about clutch push rod
Post by nickbilljim on 03/15/20 at 11:46:48

I have an 86 model with 25000 miles on the clock ,when i bought it had a few small mods already done, so the engine pulls a bit harder only problem is the clutch is slipping,I have checked the clutch plates they are slightly worn .
I have read all the info on clutch push rods on this forum but still cant work it out,
If your clutch plates are worn do you put in a longer or shorter clutch push rod
Many thanks for any help

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/15/20 at 12:08:32

What oil you using?

Done the cam chain tensioner?

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by nickbilljim on 03/15/20 at 12:13:24

Lucas High Performance Motorcycle Semi- Synthetic SAE 10W40 Oil Troy Lee
and I have not done the chain tensioner

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by batman on 03/15/20 at 15:07:51

The Lucas oil your using states that it is NOT designed for use in wet clutches , it contains MOLY that makes wet clutches slip ! At 25,000 miles you are over do for checking the cam chain tensioner ,I would do both at the same time that would allow you to more fully drain the "troy Lee" out of the motor( lean the bike both ways at a 45 ,to help drain the valve area ,and change the filter and protect your motor from possible destruction from the tensioner failing.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by nickbilljim on 03/15/20 at 15:31:26

I think you are correct but this is what it says about the product
LUCAS: High Performance 4 Stroke 10W-40 SEMI SYNTHETIC MOTORCYCLE OIL 946ml Made In USA

Note: Images are used as an example only, Item received my vary slightly but will be the correct item for the bike listed in title & description.

Lucas High Performance 10W-40 Semi Synthetic Motorcycle Oil are the result of technology gained through years of blending motor oils and gear oils for the racing industry.

These are TRUE racing oils that FAR exceed all manufacturer specifications and can outlast other oils up to 4 times on the track or on the road.

Formulated with clutch saving technology,( a must for wet clutch applications and high RPM engines.)

Expect:

Lower oil temperatures
Longer oil life
Longer component life
Less noise, fewer leaks
Meets or Exceeds:

API SM/SL/SJ/CC/CD - JASO MA2 - ACEA A3

Use in ALL air-cooled or water-cooled 4-stroke engines calling for a 10W-40 motor oil.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by batman on 03/15/20 at 15:53:20

i'M SURE THEY DO -But NOT the Troy Lee version ! formulated for HONDA, AND NOT FOR WET CLUTCHES ,BECAUSE IT CONTAINS MOLY! go back and read it for yourself,Not s-s10W40 but the TroyLee version , Moly is loading up your clutch plates which is making it slip .

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by srinath on 03/15/20 at 16:11:48

Lucas especially that additive is really really thick when cold. Is your clutch slipping more when cold than when fully hot ?
That could be an indication to ditch that thing.
BTW I used lucas a lot in my 45-50K mile GS, I credit it witj keeping that GS alive but it also was a stock 40-43 hp motor with barely 25lb torque and a Barnett Kevlar clutch. No I would be very suspicious of that additive and really watch for hot vs cold differences, its night and day. Think of that as something like 90w0 oil. Not 20w50. Its super thick when cold and super thin in terms of viscosity when hot.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/15/20 at 17:29:52

Being stubborn, asking for answers,,
The people here have so much experience, not listening just makes no sense.
Ditch the fancy oil.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by nickbilljim on 03/16/20 at 00:44:32

thanks I was misled by the sales info

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by srinath on 03/16/20 at 05:00:26

Sorry you're not using that additive, But, Lucas oil - I've never heard of that.
Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by nickbilljim on 03/16/20 at 06:58:17

I ditched the fancy oil for silkolene comp 4 10 w 40
I scrubbed the old discs
put in heavy duty springs
I tried putting in shims to preload clutch springs
my clutch push rod sticks out 12,5 mm from basket
the clutch still slips in 3rd and 4th
I priced up barnett friction plates are these the best available
Mant thanks

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by batman on 03/16/20 at 07:31:42

You did all that in 1 day ?

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by nickbilljim on 03/16/20 at 12:11:33

no i have been on this project four 4 months

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by batman on 03/16/20 at 16:28:12

What I meant was that you'll need to go through the entire process again ,cleaning the clutch plates ,new oil filter, etc. Just changing the oil won't cut it.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by nickbilljim on 03/17/20 at 03:45:24

already had the clutch plates soaking for 48 hours before you gave me this advice
have dried the plates out slowly at room temp as advised,they are completely clean and are not worn
have replaced oil after draining out all the old stuff, have put in E B C springs which are supposed 10% stronger have shimmed out the springs as advised
the only thing I have not done is a new oil filter,the one I have got has only 60 miles on it have ordered some Barnett friction plates so I will try them
these are the mods on my bike
dr 650 cam
one of Lancers pistons
after market straight thru muffler
got rid of air box
added better air filter
ported and polished exhaust port
jetted it up with one of Lancers jet sets

with all these mods do you think the standard clutch will take the extra torque or will the Barnett components be better
many thanks

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by nickbilljim on 03/17/20 at 03:48:47

I have measured the clutch push rod
it sticks up 12.5 mm out of the basket
is this within tolerance

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by verslagen1 on 03/17/20 at 07:00:58

This is not really a requirement, but what I've found that works.
Too long and when you bolt down your clutch cover and it will clamp down on the throw out rod and you got permanent slipping.
12 to 12.5 works for me and every savage that I've worked on.
If you bolt down the cover and there's no free play on the lever, you had better look at again and maybe shorten it.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by batman on 03/17/20 at 07:45:19

Not changing the oil filter may have been a mistake, the difference in an oil change without the filter (1.9 Qts) and with filter (2.5 Qts) , leaves over 25% of the Moly still in the motor. that may not include the oil bath the cam sets in (remember I advised tipping the bike over in both direction so that oil would drain from the valve spring area back to the bottom end) or any oil still trapped in the oil passages.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by nickbilljim on 03/18/20 at 06:48:55

I have just spoken to lucas oils they do not make a semi synthetic 10w40 with moly, they only make fully synthetic oil with moly.So the stuff I used was semi synthetic therefore cannot have moly in it
therefore it can not be the oil that is making my clutch slip and I have wasted $100 dollars in oil and gaskets and my clutch is no better

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/18/20 at 06:53:32

Savage engines have been seen with 100,000+ miles, using much less expensive oils. We know about it. Bring in a different critter and have a slip, we immediately distrust the oil.
Your research on your oil would have been better done earlier.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by nickbilljim on 03/18/20 at 08:07:38

what oil do you recommend

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by stewmills on 03/18/20 at 13:48:21

484F454D444F4A4A4C4F4B260 wrote:

what oil do you recommend

Plain and simple, Shell Rotella T4 right out of the bottle. Trust us.
Most use 15w 40, but if you are riding in freezing weather you can use the 5w, your choice.

Old theory was to add ZDDP, but we have recently determined the current formulation is sufficient so don't be confused by old posts recommending added ZDDP.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by stewmills on 03/18/20 at 13:52:28

Also, I have a 95 motor that is parting out from a cam chain tensioner failure. If you need a clutch pack/basket and want to see the condition of mine I can send images. PM me.

Title: Re: confused about clutch push rod
Post by batman on 03/18/20 at 16:02:11

You can lead a horse to water.............

It Does have MOLY! You didn't Clean the Clutch plates again or Change the filter, and you expect what? a miracle! It's sad to think that when taking to Lucas that either you didn't tell him you had used the troy lee version or that he doesn't know what's in the products he sells. I have better things to do than lie to you ,like trying to help someone who will listen.
in any event stick a fork in me I done!