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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Removing the steering stem /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1583653913 Message started by kamelryttarn on 03/07/20 at 23:51:48 |
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Title: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 03/07/20 at 23:51:48 In my efforts to restore my Savage to it's former glory as best I can I need to remove the steering stem. I have removed the top nut but the top part whatever it is called wont move an inch. Should it come of after removing the parts I have or is there something else I need to loosen? |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Dave on 03/08/20 at 03:43:06 Should come off.....likely corroded and stuck. Try penetrating oil, then hold the bottom clamp steady and wack the top clamp with a rubber mallet to twist the clamp. If that fails a bit of heat might work. If you use a torch or heat gun it will likely ruin the clear coat - so I would just use a hair dryer first. You may need to let the hair dryer run for a very long time to get the top clamp warm. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/08/20 at 04:46:28 I agree with Dave, except I’d use a dead blow mallet. Another idea, I’d turn the assembly until the lower clamp hits the steering stop, then I’d hit the top to provide a twisting force further into the stop. That should release it. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/08/20 at 06:38:56 On the savage this trick should work - yes you can knock it out with a mallet, but this may be easier and gentler on it and yourself, and minimizes your chance of knocking yourself in the head with mallet. Run penetrating oil down the threads etc and make sure it gets in there. Put the biggest flat head screwdriver that fits in the lock hole and stick it into the milled groove in the stem as deep as it will go. Now that stops the stem from spinning. Now turn the upper triple. Work more penetrating oil in there and work it round and round till it gets out. BTW how did you remove that steering lock ? I have removed it before but can not remember how I did. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/08/20 at 06:40:58 3C363238333A3E37696F6B5B0 wrote:
Yea this is easier - and your tank is off already, so you wont clobber the tank. My method was if the tank was still on it. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 03/08/20 at 07:29:39 I have tried penetrating oil for almost a year but it still wont move. I have a heat gun and dead blow mallet so I can give that a try. I need to get these things of the frame so I can sand blast and repaint the frame and also to replace the bearings that are really bad. The steering lock was only attached with a small "wood screw" or something like that so I suspect someone before me has removed/replaced it and then just put it back in with whatever fastening device they could find. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Hiko on 03/08/20 at 17:50:23 My suggestion would be to use a puller of some kind A gear or bearing puller maybe or make one up to suit Easy enough job if you have some scrap metal lying around Two threaded hooks about 10 or 12 mm in diameter that hook into the recess under the aluminium part and pass through a plate that goes over the stem with nuts on top to suit is one way of many The heat gun on the aluminium would help also A puller like this is less likely to do damage IMHO Load it up with the nuts and give it a short sharp shock in the center with a hammer |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/09/20 at 07:51:21 3C363238333A3E37696F6B5B0 wrote:
You tried this - to simply twist it ? For a year ? I've never seen something on that much. You try to rotate it past the stop. Not lift it. It has to turn before it will come up. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Hiko on 03/09/20 at 14:10:59 Clymers words are "remove the upper fork bridge" ! I assume there is some form of spline to prevent twisting and racking of the fork tubes ? If so twisting against the stop wont help much and could damage it. Someone on here must be able to say for sure |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/09/20 at 15:04:23 122734303830550 wrote:
Yea, nope no keyway or spline. It will spin its held in place in the bike by the fork legs other than friction. At the stage it is in on the OP's picture. the top will spin free on the stem. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/09/20 at 17:07:22 It’s a plain shaft. It’s tapered. Hit the top with a 2 pound sledge if you don’t like my last idea. I’m serious, just hit the top of the shaft with a dead blow or 2lb. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Hiko on 03/10/20 at 16:37:05 Ah OK A taper Makes sense Tapers can really lock on They can drive without keyways in some cases tailstocks on lathes for example Beating the top of that steering stem will transfer the blows direct to the taper bearings and do little to loosen the top bracket I believe Not good I still believe a puller of some kind is required in this case where it seems to be well stuck. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by DragBikeMike on 03/10/20 at 17:05:17 Use a spanner wrench to back off the large spanner nut just below the top triple tree. You can use the spanner nut to apply upward pressure on the triple tree. Don't get carried away and strip the threads, just apply a moderate amount of pressure. Then you can use a soft hammer (preferably babbit or lead) to whack the end of the stem. Back off spanner nut and moderately tighten against the underside of the triple tree, whack, back off spanner nut some more, whack, etc. This is the nut I am referring to. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by DragBikeMike on 03/10/20 at 17:05:58 Another view. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 03/11/20 at 00:02:49 Thanks DBM! I will give that a try. Btw, the top part I am trying to remove... is that steel or aluminium? It seem to be chrome-plated so I'm guessing steel. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by zevenenergie on 03/11/20 at 01:46:05 It is made from auluminium. And because aluminum expands more than steel, it comes loose when you heat it up. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/11/20 at 05:52:26 495645565D565D5641545A56330 wrote:
Its a dirty mystery alloy with aluminum in it. Its probably fine with you use a hair dryer or a heat gun, but its supposed to be a super super tight nearly interference fit. I'd not go past a heat gun - like no blow torches etc. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by zevenenergie on 03/11/20 at 08:43:08 No, just crappity smack it. Use a blow torch and heat it to 250celcius,and hit it with a mallet. Otherwise this topic will never end ::) |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/11/20 at 09:47:29 405F4C5F545F545F485D535F3A0 wrote:
Yea blow torch the sucker. I dunno about Netherlands, but in US of A I got no way to stop blow torch at 250C - in fact most people don't even know what 250C is, I do, I still cant stop the blow torch there. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by zevenenergie on 03/11/20 at 10:08:25 Just use your finger as a feeler, and when you hit, put your finger between the hammer and the plate, to soften the blow. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/11/20 at 10:12:32 213E2D3E353E353E293C323E5B0 wrote:
Don't forget to use your finger to check temperature of torch, then the metal its been heating, that's how you know 250C. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 03/12/20 at 00:03:27 As we say in Sweden: This thread derailed quickly :) I will give moderate heat and gently pushing the top part up with the use of the nut between a try in a little while. I think I can also borrow or build a induction heater. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Hiko on 03/12/20 at 00:30:21 Definitely worth a try doing that Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by zevenenergie on 03/12/20 at 01:29:21 As we say in Sweden: I will give moderate heat and gently pushing the top part up with the use of the nut between a try in a little while. I think I can also borrow or build a induction heater. Are you teling me it is still on there??? :o;) You work on motorcycles like old people f##k Just hit it, for Tor,s sake. http://https://i.imgur.com/TFujPzOl.png |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/12/20 at 05:27:17 5B4457444F444F4453464844210 wrote:
OMG its been on there for a year, and now you're building an induction heater. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/12/20 at 06:38:25 I get the feeling that this might be one of those threads that goes 10...maybe 20 pages. Hit the dang thing with a hammer and allow us to get on with life. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/12/20 at 09:51:45 Are you saying you haven't loosened the nut? That's gonna be important,, |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 03/13/20 at 00:53:14 The top nut is off and I tried to remove everything last summer when I was changing the seals in the front fork but I couldn't get the parts off despite trying with heat and WD40 or similar so I left it the way it was. I tried some kind of puller but it was difficult to get a good grip on the top part and I even tried my hammer drill to try and loosen it but nothing worked. It is properly stuck there. I am afraid I will damage some parts if I apply any more brute force but I really need to remove it if I am going to be able to sand blast and repaint the frame and also the steering bearing are shot so I need to replace those. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/13/20 at 04:07:36 So what is the fear of forcefully removing the upper triple clamp? They are readily available on eBay for $20 to $40USD. A side load with a 2lb hammer and it’s off. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/13/20 at 05:22:31 Pulling it is a recipe to damage it. You want to try to rotate it. That crappity smack it with a rubber mallet is the way to go. Sideways, you are trying to rotate it not pull it up. Don't pull it, don't heat it - crappity smack it sideways like Zevereniegie said. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by zevenenergie on 03/13/20 at 05:37:35 Engine parts are stronger than you initially think. I also sometimes have something stuck. But don't get me wrong. ;) I am willing to do what is necessary. Here you see me, descending into a volcano, with motorbike parts. http://https://i.imgur.com/gxmJlypl.jpg And I have a whole range of hammers, so that I can always use the right tool for the job. http://https://i.imgur.com/AEpEF1Wl.png Ore, just take a run ub. http://https://i.imgur.com/XYcVW4Wl.png I have heard in the corridors that they are thinking about banning you. [smiley=laugh.gif] Not entirely wrongly, we have enough misery with corona and stuff. Get her done. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 03/13/20 at 06:16:09 That part is not easily found in Europe and the only place I know of that has it as a spare part is motorycleparts.eu and it's not exactly cheap there. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/13/20 at 06:19:08 You don't have eBay in Europe? I literately just checked...there's dozens of them available. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 03/13/20 at 06:30:25 I use ebay quite a lot and I did find a few US sellers that shipped to Europe which surprised me a little but that will probably be the way to go because I refuse to spend 450 USD on the top part and in worst case another 650 USD on the bottom part. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/13/20 at 06:57:38 Don't pull it, don't heat it, just crapity smack it sideways with a rubber mallet. You will not ever damage it that way. Zeven is right crappity smack it - you're turning it, the same action it does in real life. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by zevenenergie on 03/13/20 at 07:54:27 I live in the Netherlands and have 1 available. For 40 euros plus shipping costs, it is yours. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/13/20 at 08:29:56 1A0516050E050E0512070905600 wrote:
See, not only does he come up with the best idea - crappity smack it - and don't fu(k like old people, he also has the best part to replace it. Now crappity smack it. Horizontal - spin it. Then it will work itself out. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/13/20 at 13:28:43 Pulling out at the ends Bad idea But A board across the top Clamps as close to the middle as possible A hammer on the board... If that doesn't get it Tear it off and get one |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by zevenenergie on 03/13/20 at 14:45:46 I like te hammer part. :) |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 03/13/20 at 17:45:26 Here is the latest technology invented in 1056 BC, Hit the drucking thing with frozen dead animal leg sideways. Then in 101 AD they invented to hit it with a tree limb. In 1001 AD they invented to hit it with a precisely shaped tree. Then 2001 AD they invented a wooden stick with a chunck of car tire. Then in 2020 they invented the car tire on a stick with Corona Virus. Just hit it man. Sideways. Rotation is 1/2 of removation. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/13/20 at 18:39:23 Yeah, once it spins, it'll be easier WD 40 evaporates Is actually for Water Displacement . Try again And do something. Please |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Bokobob on 03/14/20 at 05:49:27 Four steps: ;) Rubber Mallet Muscle Perseverance Strike in many places from many angles. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by zevenenergie on 03/14/20 at 06:11:36 Ok I try, a different approach. 8-) This is a rare moment when you get the chance to look at your upper triple clamp in an aloof and detached way. Imagine a gentle breeze, refreshing, tonifying, clearing your mind of all unnecessary clutter. And look at your Trippelclamp frome a distans.... http://https://i.imgur.com/Vza56Nzl.jpg Tel me, what do you feel? (So i can work whit that) |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 03/14/20 at 09:04:59 Electric heat gun, WD40 and a dead blow hammer took care of it :) |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/14/20 at 09:09:33 Well, CRAP,, Now what are we gonna focus on? |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/14/20 at 09:23:44 [thumbs up] We knew public shaming would work. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by batman on 03/14/20 at 10:35:45 " If you can't fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem " |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by ohiomoto on 03/14/20 at 12:28:19 6F65616B60696D643A3C38080 wrote:
Exactly! This stuff isn't the rocket science a lot of people on here turn it into. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 06/27/20 at 08:05:28 I tried to remove the lower bearing of the steering stem but I think there is a piece left. Should the contact surface for the bearing rollers be removed before I install my new bearings? (should that piece come off?) |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 06/27/20 at 08:19:28 That's the entire inner race that's left. Put a drift punch that can "catch" the edge and hit it with a hammer. Whatever you do, do not heat it. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/27/20 at 08:31:15 Yep,, gotta get that off,, If youre not equipped with a heat source,, youre gonna need to be, Do you have a good vise. hammer, chisel? You can get a torch head at Lowes,, https://www.lowes.com/pd/BernzOmatic-Pencil-Flame-Torch-Head/1114435?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-rpe-_-google-_-lia-_-142-_-plumbingconnectionsandsupport-_-1114435-_-0&store_code=519&placeholder=null&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3Nv3BRC8ARIsAPh8hgK_F6jmO0mFm_noL3XcUpFJVSazIdDtBH_ghy3CGgBZ2Py5fcJ7ojUaAukyEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds https://www.lowes.com/pd/BernzOmatic-Pencil-Flame-Torch-Head/1114435?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-rpe-_-google-_-lia-_-142-_-plumbingconnectionsandsupport-_-1114435-_-0&store_code=519&placeholder=null&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3Nv3BRC8ARIsAPh8hgK_F6jmO0mFm_noL3XcUpFJVSazIdDtBH_ghy3CGgBZ2Py5fcJ7ojUaAukyEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds and instead of the blue propane bottle, get Mapp gas,, Yellow bottle,, Id heat a section of that racewhile its in the vise, and, using just about 1/2" of the Sharp chisel, knock a groove in it, Ohh,, Id Start by grinding, at least get the edges cut down, and if you have a cut off grinder, you can seriously affect the structural integrity of that bearing race.. Anyway. the object is to make that bearing race grow. It grows with heat,, but shrinks again,, If you heat it, you can bang on it, anything, chisel a line across it, that makes it longer, which make it loosen up. IDK what goes in the slot that I see is misshapen,,If thats inportant to have it looking as much like it did before that metal got mashed outta place and something is supposed to be IN that slot,, Dont just grind that metal away. Itll peen back into place,, with a buncha light hits. Then grind,file, whatever. And that aluminum isnt gonna like getting too hot, And its a heat sink, making your job harder. If youre not up to it, a welder can handle it,, |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/27/20 at 08:32:25 6362797E716478100 wrote:
Well,, I was typing, while you were posting,, Why not use heat? And,, I went full on Nukular,, of course try penetrating oil and see if that thing will slip on down,,a punch and hammer,, best start. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by Serowbot on 06/27/20 at 09:58:50 746B6D6A7770417141796B672C1E0 wrote:
Well,, I was typing, while you were posting,, Why not use heat? And,, I went full on Nukular,, [/quote] Why am I not surprised?... ;D |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 06/27/20 at 17:09:11 51504B4C43564A220 wrote:
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 06/28/20 at 08:25:41 Got the crap off but darn it wasn't pretty. Blasting it made it a little bit better but it wont pass any closer inspection. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 06/28/20 at 08:36:18 OMG how did you chew up the steering stop ? In fact the stem marks are bad too IMHO - I take em off clean. Even on a welded stem. Savage stem I'd have it pressed out at the stem … Y'know I am going to start a mail in service for these - cos I am also planning on making raked out FE's. Might as well help out people for real. Anyway hand sand those rough spots on the stem. You'd be fine. Then grease and freaking hit the new inner race - HARD with pipe and big hammer. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 06/28/20 at 09:17:10 The marks on the stop was caused when my hammer drill slipped on the bearing ring. I don't have any good tools or a vice so I had to make due with what I had. As usual thing on my bike is stuck beyond what you guys have ever seen or heard of so normal "rules" don't apply. Force needed to remove are 10 times what's normally needed and things are rusted together. Aluminium parts hare heavily pitted. At least my blasting cabinet and new air compressor is working. Maybe a little TOO good. Even though I am using glass beads the abrasive removing of clear lacquer and rust is insane. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/20 at 17:25:54 You have air Get an air chisel. You canknock that thing theHELLoff in a second with an air chisel,, |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/20 at 17:26:48 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Powermate-Air-Hammer-with-Chisels-024-0075CT/202590348?mtc=Shopping-B-F_Brand-G-Multi-NA-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Catchall_PLA&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_Brand-G-Multi-NA-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Catchall_PLA-71700000014585962-58700001236285396-92700010802552382&gclid=CjwKCAjw_-D3BRBIEiwAjVMy7BAoGt95190W8XvoIlYmSyuH9UuIjWGHI_zN9oN_-AOTKIPq-4y2qxoC1NQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds https://www.homedepot.com/p/Powermate-Air-Hammer-with-Chisels-024-0075CT/202590348?mtc=Shopping-B-F_Brand-G-Multi-NA-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Catchall_PLA&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_Brand-G-Multi-NA-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Catchall_PLA-71700000014585962-58700001236285396-92700010802552382&gclid=CjwKCAjw_-D3BRBIEiwAjVMy7BAoGt95190W8XvoIlYmSyuH9UuIjWGHI_zN9oN_-AOTKIPq-4y2qxoC1NQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds AS LOng as ya move the pressure from side to side, itll walk off.. You keep beating on one side because it moved,, it will lock down,, |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by kamelryttarn on 06/28/20 at 22:09:25 I beg to differ. I first tried to use the edge of the bearing race but it just broke off so instead I had the use the Dremel to cut a groove and apply force with the drill hammer to rotate the ring instead of driving it up the stem. I had to do this again and again and make new grooves in the ring until finally it broke loose enough to apply force in an angle so I could get it of the stem. I don't yet have an air chisel but realize I have to buy one. That however means I will have to get a big air tank for my compressor and make some adjustments in the programming of the variable frequency drive. As of now, it is only connected to a small 24 liter buffer tank. It is made for blasting work primarily with the possibility of "regular" after some configuration changes. |
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Title: Re: Removing the steering stem Post by srinath on 06/29/20 at 04:45:39 I've removed it by putting a drift to the bottom edge of the bearing, not the top. But that damage is sanded out and greased up and put the new one on. Make sure you get the dust seal under it first and put a pipe of the right side - and use a hammer not a hammer drill. In fact if you had a press, the cleanest way to take out that bearing is to press the stem out. Anyway its not too crazy so its gonna be fine. Dremel to cut a groove is also a good idea. I just rarely have had to do it to a pressed in stem instead of a welded stem, so I didn't think this needed it. Ofcourse I had access to a press so I could afford to dream up the solution. Cool. Srinath. |
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