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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Pics of Extended Forks /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1582247334 Message started by d3adrock on 02/20/20 at 17:08:54 |
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Title: Pics of Extended Forks Post by d3adrock on 02/20/20 at 17:08:54 Anyone here have pics of extended forks. I'm trying to decide if I wanna get 2"-3" fork tubes. Ive read the other forums on the subject but there's a lack of pictures. Any pics would be much appreciated. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/21/20 at 15:54:08 This picture isn't the best angle, but it is the best I can do at the moment. These are 4 3/4" over tubes I have on mine. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by twhitus on 02/21/20 at 18:01:20 i have been kinda eyeing this for a while. kinda expensive tho http://www.chopper-kit-usa.com/suzuki-LS650-Savage.htm |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/21/20 at 19:17:17 Yeah, that kit is more than a little pricey. If you use 6" over tubes or shorter, you can do a frame stretch to get it level and not have to bother with raked trees. The stretch on mine with the 4 3/4" tubes only changed the rake by 2 or 3 degrees and trail is still well within acceptable limits. The amount of rake change with the stretch required for 6" over forks puts the trail right at the limits for acceptable handling. Anything more than that and you will need raked trees then. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by batman on 02/21/20 at 21:47:55 That kit is also more than a little insane. I can't think about how much flex there would be in the extended fork tubes , possibly to the point of braking. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/21/20 at 22:22:43 4 and 6 inch extensions are a common length and flex is not any more noticeable than stock at those lengths. If you feel unsafe amounts of flex at those lengths, then to paraphrase Apple, "you're riding it wrong". It's a cruiser, not a sportbike. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by batman on 02/22/20 at 08:29:39 Fast650, ,I fully agree that 4to 6 " is safe and reasonable , What I considered insane was the kits from Chopper Supply , 18degree tree with 10" over forks ! that would put the Savage at an angle exceeding 45 degrees ? (53?) putting most of the weight of the bike and rider on the front wheel , forks at that angle have got to flex I'm thinking , maybe not as much on a HD's with much larger forks (49mm). Chopper Supply 's customer raves ? Two of the HD bikes are 3 wheelers with the 18 degree /10"over setup , and brag about winning first place in bike shows, but we should know by now that , Show doesn't mean GO. extending the front end of a trike is possibly the worst thing you can do to a trike ,the further extended the more dangerous it gets, On a stock trike taking a 90 degree corner to fast tends to lift the inside rear wheel , but with an extended front end , with a long wheel base it doesn't, instead the rear wheels driving tend to make the front wheel plow and skip ,and the bike doesn't turn but keeps going straight through an intersection. There was a company in Fla. that made trike conversions from standard bikes ,and found the Savage did the same thing even with it's stock front end . |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/22/20 at 09:57:29 Yeah, geometry on trikes gets real funny. If you try to make a turn like you would on a 2 wheeler they will plow forever. You have to lean the opposite direction to get them to turn without pushing the front end. The longer the trail is the worse that it wants to plow. Springers are the way to go on trikes to keep the rake without excessive trail. And live axles are a recipe for disaster on trikes too. Two wheels driving it forward will overpower the one wheel that is trying to steer it. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by d3adrock on 02/22/20 at 12:54:51 How would you do a frame stretch? Longer swingarm? Anybody got anymore pics? |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/22/20 at 13:25:14 You cut out the downtube about where the arrows are, and cut partway through the top of the two frame rails just past the seat mount. Those two cuts will allow the backbone to bend upward, closing the gap and raising the neck at the same time. Weld in a new longer downtube and weld up the two cuts you made and you are done. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by d3adrock on 02/22/20 at 13:36:04 Wow, thats cool. Whats the result? Got any pics of it finished or of the whole frame? Did you do it yourself or take it to somone? |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/22/20 at 14:17:21 64336164726F636B000 wrote:
The nearly finished pic is a few posts above. If you look closely there are a lot of subtle changes that were made. The goal was to make it look like it came that way from the showroom. I didn't get any pics of just the frame other than that one while we were welding it. I took it to work and had one of the guys there do the welding. He is an artist with TIG and I have no doubts about the weld strength with him doing it. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by d3adrock on 02/22/20 at 14:19:42 Wow, i couldnt even tell the frame had been modded. I was also wondering where you got that tank. When it's conveniant for you i'm sure we'd all love to see more pics (profile perhaps) of your bike! Also, am i mistaken or is that a different rear fender (honda rebel)? |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/22/20 at 14:25:09 The tank is the Savage tank. I just cut out where the speedo was and welded sheet metal over the openings. Cleans up the looks a lot and gives me a 3 gallon tank. If you go that route, be warned that the tank is really thin. Easy to burn holes through it welding, and it warps from the heat. It took a lot of hammering, filling, and sanding to get it that smooth. The rear fender is from a 1400 Intruder. It is nearly a bolt on deal and the tail/brake light uses the same plug so no wiring hassles either. It is about 1/2" wider so you have to modify the rails for the sissy bar if you want to keep that. I milled 1/4" off each side to compensate for the wider fender. The Intruder speedometer is easily adapted to the Savage fork crown too. Get a tach cable for a 70's era GT750 and it is the right length and has the right ends. Here is an earlier mock up picture that shows things a little better. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by d3adrock on 02/25/20 at 13:53:05 That really looks awesome! Thanks. Anyone got anymore pics? Im trying to decide before I install some goldvalve cartridge emulators while I have the forks apart. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/25/20 at 22:49:35 Look in the tech section for the companion photo cd. There are a couple of bike there with extended forks. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by d3adrock on 02/26/20 at 07:41:21 Thanks again. This was the only one I could find. Any idea how much over these are? |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by srinath on 02/26/20 at 08:28:46 1B3C2E296B686D5D0 wrote:
This procedure was in the old days called a "Swedish rake". However if you sliced it at the neck and added 2" to the top, 4" to the bottom you will be able to just fit a dirt bike front end - 4" rake and 12-14" longer front end with better handling if you run the axle trailing (flipping fork legs left to right will do that). Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by DieselBob on 02/26/20 at 09:55:46 - From long ago and far away - mostly raked trees with a few modified necks. Well, I guess one's a modified chest. http://https://i.postimg.cc/Y9CfHqpV/Savage-Stretch-1.jpg http://https://i.postimg.cc/zBQWYC2b/Savage-Stretch-2.jpg http://https://i.postimg.cc/C1R78LW8/Savage-Stretch-3.jpg http://https://i.postimg.cc/x19PRPwn/Savage-Stretch-4.jpg http://https://i.postimg.cc/43qtrvSK/Savage-Stretch-5.jpg http://https://i.postimg.cc/tCJ6CMG1/Savage-Stretch-6.jpg http://https://i.postimg.cc/zfbHSbGq/Savage-Stretch-7.jpg http://https://i.postimg.cc/XJ6qfsPg/Savage-Stretch-8.jpg http://https://i.postimg.cc/mgcg0xfw/Savage-Stretch-9.jpg http://https://i.postimg.cc/mk2bjJy7/Savage-Stretch-10.jpg |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/26/20 at 10:54:08 A forum member (don't recall who it was now) had this one a few years back. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/26/20 at 10:54:45 And this one. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by srinath on 02/26/20 at 12:34:57 One of those frame cut jobs of 2" on top and 4" on the bottom was in my hood, in Statesville NC too if I recall. TBH, in those cases - where you cut the frame at the neck, the stock style triples have to go along with the stock forks, cos at that point, you have the world at your feet. Fit a dirt bike front end, upside down if you prefer, 21" wheel and trailing axle (flip legs left to right) and you'd love its end result. Here is mine done that way. But this was with a 9 degree raked set of triples. Not a cut frame. Sorry pics in my other computer, will post in a bit. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by norm92de on 02/26/20 at 16:32:49 Why would a person do that to a perfectly good motorcycle??? :'( |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by srinath on 02/26/20 at 17:05:06 27263B24707B2D2C490 wrote:
Whaaaaa ... no I did nothing to no perfectly good motorcycle, I bought this one with a busted set of forks, then fabbed up a 9 degree raked triple set and machined the fork spacing and diameter to fit a dirt bike FE (KX 125 from 1989 if I recall) and fitted all the FE parts onto it. AKA a chopperguys kit with a KX125 FE fork dia and spacing. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by norm92de on 02/26/20 at 17:28:58 I can understand the work and skill involved. However, our bike has far more rake that it needs. Style over substance! I rest my case. :'( |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by DieselBob on 02/27/20 at 03:56:27 - Style over substance/form over function. I would argue many of us ascribe to that priority. Who of us chose our partners purely on the basis of function. Form certainly played a significant role in the choice of who I married. And yet, she's got some wonderful substance accompanying that form. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by srinath on 02/27/20 at 05:07:17 Ok there is the element of style, but a lot of mods are about style while improving function. This savage I got with a broken fork. It would have been simpler to slap on the exact same forks and let it be. But, I had to machine up triples with the rake - well for looks, however I ended up with a bike that didn't have that heavy feeling front end. I honestly urge you to find a bike that was raked with a dirt bike fork set where the axle is set trailing the fork legs and has a 21" aluminum front wheel and try and see if you can ride it. The lower and slower rotating mass of the lighter front wheel, the longer but stiffer and fatter fork legs, the drag bars I fitted off a Harley, and the most important aspect - reduction in trail make it far easier to ride than a stock savage. I also fit GS500's with katana 600 forks, twin disk and fatter forks make it handle far far better while wearing out brakes at a much lower rate and providing far better braking. A GS does have phenomenal brakes, so its not a big deal there, but the static pad in the GS wears out at 3X the rate of the other one, katana 600's have Dual opposed pistons. So they were evenly and slower. I turned an SCR 950 Yamaha back into the bike it started out as - a Yamaha bolt 950. The SCR was too hard, too heavy, too tall, too slippery and too grabby and it can only cover 3 of those 5 flaws. Then I fit café bars on it, narrower and it improved my top speed from 109 to about 119 indicated, but more than that. I am not feeling like a sail any more at any speed. A lot of mods when done right give you the style you want and improve some aspect of the bike. PS: I am planning a café out of one of these savages I got lying about, and it will not have the savage front end, it will be de-raked de-offsetted, have a 17" or 16" wheel gauges that go on the triple - likely from a GS500 or one of those $40 hockey puck style ones off ebay, a functioning tach and will handle like a GS500. Not an overloaded wheelbarrow that the savage in its stock form does. Form and function as well as easy to find high performance tires and true café look and feel. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by d3adrock on 02/27/20 at 07:29:14 I also disagree with the assesment that more rake, or in some cases style is going against function. Sometimes in the extremes perhaps a 50 degree 36 inch extended front end would be. But some people enjoy that type of geometry for the type of riding they do. Otherwise why wouldnt we all just ride the latest sport bikes? Im doing every performance mod I can think of on the savage, and me to me at least, the geometry suits my riding style. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by srinath on 02/27/20 at 08:05:38 The savage forks are IMHO an abomination visited upon the biking world. There was a 1000 ways to have made it better, and that is with parts they already make that are literally same cost and 1 fewer part, as in it would be effectively cheaper to make the savage. So, intruder 800 has a 21" front wheel, put that onto savage. It rotates 30-40% slower for any speed, easier to change direction. Put a shorter offset triple set out of a katana or GS500. Or an older gs450 which was made in 1985 when they made the savage. The tank off a GS450 would have saved them a few 1000 atleast in R&D not to mention manufacturing. Nearly the same wheel base, nearly the same stance and handling that makes sense. With existing parts and cheaper to design and make. The speedometer in tank idea is what derailed the rideability of the savage. They spend more $$$ to make it less enjoyable >:( Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by d3adrock on 02/27/20 at 08:35:58 Not entirely sure I follow you. If they had used a gs450 tank woulding it totally change the look the bike? I dont particularly understand how having the speedo in the tank is what did that. Also are not the katana and gs450 sport bikes? Wouldnt that also have changed the stance and look of the bike. Just from some quick googling they dont look to be particularly attractive tripple trees compared to whats on the savage. A 21 inch wheel might have been nice, although made the front a bit large looking. I'd be interested in seeing somone who's modded their front to a 21" wheel. I wish theyd gone 16 in back and 21 in front. Don't misunderstand im not trying to defend suzuki, i'd just like to understand what youre saying about why the stock front is so awful. I think their spring setup is pretty bad which is why im putting goldtechs in them. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by srinath on 02/27/20 at 09:22:33 GS450 was an early 80's UJM actually it was a 70's UJM. The savage tank is so wide in the front on a savage because the speedometer is in it, to get any fuel capacity (say 2.5 gal) they had to have that wide in front tank. The speedometer makes it much wider. The 80's and 70's bikes like the gs450, intruder, magna, etc etc etc all had 2.4-3 gal tanks and none were as wide as savage mainly due to not having speedometer in the tank. The GS450 or was it the 550 had a nice teardrop cruiser-ish tank. Would have worked just fine on a savage. A speedo less tank designed to fit with a fork set with far less offset is the key, the massive offset in the triples are to accommodate the tank, not any handling related or look related reasons. Now speaking of style over function - the speedo in tank looks cool. It makes for handling and FE related nightmares. Exacerbated by not having 21" wheel etc. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Fast 650 on 02/27/20 at 12:44:51 5A0D5F5A4C515D553E0 wrote:
Watch your trail if you go with very much rake and a 21" front wheel. There are online calculators for figuring rake and trail. Try one of those using a 19" wheel first, then plug in a 21" instead of the 19" and look at how much trail increases then. Generally at 7" or more of trail, handling will start to suffer. If you are near 7" and then go to a 21" wheel, that will push the trail well past 7" then. Look at some pictures of the really radical choppers from the early 70's, and how many of those were running 14" or even 12" front wheels to keep trail manageable. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by srinath on 02/27/20 at 13:08:52 True, the advantage is, 21" spins lesser rpm for any speed, than a 19, and the moment of inertia is dependent on square of the rpm. So 10% less is actually 20% less. The next thing is, the offset needs to be reduced and a FE without the savage's constraint of the tank will be less, and 21" wheel in my case was further reducing the trail because I ran the axle trailing the fork legs reducing trail even more. Its had a lot less trail than stock, but yes a 19" wheel would reduce the trail even more in that setup. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by srinath on 02/28/20 at 08:36:18 The savage is light enough and short enough wheel base that fitting it with good rubber and turning the monster offset/high trail forks into short offset and very low trail would make a bike that handles on par with a GS500 that's been put on a weight loss plan and made narrower. If you haven't ridden one of those, I suggest you do that to really know what café handling is. Seriously a café is about handling, its about taking an anemic bike and run rings around bigger bikes, precisely because handling trumps brute power except in a straight line. That's not what chopping it and raking it is supposed to do, its what café should. My next savage build will be for true handling not café in looks only. Besides these savage forks are rusty, the tank etc etc already been bought, its gotta be cheaper to slap this assorted gs based FE's I got lying about than doing anything else. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Blade on 03/03/20 at 02:56:40 hey Fast 650, that member was Blade......and he still drops in occassionally- |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by d3adrock on 03/03/20 at 07:58:10 Nice ride! Is that 4" over? Got any more pics, possibly with the steering facing forward? |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Blade on 03/05/20 at 04:26:25 Yes +4" from Frank's Forks. Great fun to ride. |
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Title: Re: Pics of Extended Forks Post by Blade on 03/05/20 at 04:50:27 . |
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