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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Need Help with Spring Retainers
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Message started by DragBikeMike on 02/16/20 at 21:08:26

Title: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/16/20 at 21:08:26

I am hoping that some of you have a bunch of old valve spring retainers lying around. If you could do a close-up visual inspection it would be a big help. Or if your engine is handy and easy to access, if you could take a peek through the valve covers. I would really appreciate your help.

I was getting ready to start reassembling my engine and did a close visual inspection of my valve spring retainers. These retainers were brand new about 1000 miles ago. I did not modify them. They were installed with high performance RD valve springs. From a few feet away they looked pristine, but when I got the old eyeballs a little closer I noticed what appeared to be fretting.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/16/20 at 21:10:40

Have any of you seen this condition before? If you get right down close to the retainer it looks much worse, and at 10X magnification its downright scary.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/16/20 at 21:14:00

The retainers look pretty funky, like they could possibly be sintered metal. Anyone know how to tell if an item is manufactured from sintered metal? Awhile back I machined four of these things and they behaved like case hardened material. The surface seemed hard and crusty but once I broke through the case it was very easy to cut.

I have other retainers that do not have the weird fretting appearance. This one is from a used head I bought on eBay, year & mileage unknown. It looks rough and porous, but it doesn't have the fretted look.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/16/20 at 21:17:21

This one is from the HammerHead. That thing experienced a really bad failure. The FastMan said it was run out of oil. The engine got so hot that the fire ring on the head gasket sunk into the aluminum sealing surface. The valve and retainer got so hot that the retainer is permanently discolored. It does not have the weird fretting/cracking condition.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/16/20 at 21:25:21

I figured I could get the reassembly back on track by using the stock retainers that are on my box-stock head. That head only has a little over 3000 miles on it. I pulled it down and took a look, same weird fretted appearance.

If you have access to some used retainers (or new ones), please take a close look at them and LMK if they look similar to the photos I have posted here. I'm dead in the water (DIW) until I can come up with a solution. I guess it's possible the retainers looked like this when they were new, but I think I would have noticed. I'm getting old and clearly not as sharp as I once was.

Thanks, Mike

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by Dave on 02/24/20 at 17:36:16

Top - exhaust retainers on left.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by Dave on 02/24/20 at 17:36:53

Bottom - exhaust retainers on left.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by DragBikeMike on 04/23/20 at 17:33:24

Thanks Dave. Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I just saw your post.

I blew up your photos and I can't see the same defects I have in my retainers. There are a few areas that have inklings of the same sort of defect, but nothing nearly as severe as the stuff I found in mine. Here is what I believe is your worst retainer blown up.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by DragBikeMike on 04/23/20 at 17:42:33

I ordered and received a set of new retainers. It took a while, they were on back order. I see identical defects on the brand new, never used retainers.

I have to assume this is a normal condition, but it certainly isn't something I want to run in a performance application. I have no idea how Suzuki makes these things, but these craters and divots are simply cracks waiting to propagate and fail. I'm glad I found a way to install the RD titanium retainers.

One thing seems to be consistent, older stock retainers don't have the defects. The defects seem to be confined to newer retainers. Something changed in their manufacturing process.

Here's a shot of a brand-new, never-used retainer. Right out of the OEM plastic bag.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by LANCER on 04/23/20 at 22:08:57

Have you cut one in half to expose the cross sectional area to see if there are noticeable manufacturing stress marks on the inside of kthe metal ?
Or would that even show after cutting ?

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by DragBikeMike on 04/24/20 at 11:44:31

That is something I have been contemplating. I would slice it in half, then polish the cross section. That will remove any smeared metal. Best I could do then is examine at 10X. One of these days when I feel real energetic I will give it a try. Need to pick up some quality hacksaw blades.

I believe the correct way to do it is to polish and then etch with acid. I suppose a little research is on order. If I ever do it I will update this post.

You gotta admit, those are some butt-ugly defects.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by verslagen1 on 04/24/20 at 11:47:34

If you need help with that, I got a guy at work that does that.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by DragBikeMike on 04/26/20 at 02:09:48

Hey Versy, what's the back story on your guy? Is he a metallurgist or materials engineer? Does he do the cut or should I cut it myself before sending? I really would like to learn more about these stock retainers.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by verslagen1 on 04/26/20 at 07:31:46

Not a metallurgist or materials engineer, but we section welds daily for qualifying welders and processes.
And we have what we need to cut and polish.
If you have an idea where you want it cut, mark it.

Title: Re: Need Help with Spring Retainers
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/20 at 08:12:42

Ive heard
Don't fret about it. The only fret I ever knew of was on a guitar. NOW I know what
fretting is, and why its inadvisable to do it.
But, in a harsh enough environment, fretting might be unavoidable, unless harder materials get involoved,,
Or what? What solutions exist to solve that?