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General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Democrats weakness on Russia
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Message started by NHLycan on 12/23/19 at 07:23:02

Title: Democrats weakness on Russia
Post by NHLycan on 12/23/19 at 07:23:02

I'm a little confused about the Democratic response to Russian aggression. This is probably a result of my own innocence/ignorance.

Why aren't the democrats running on grinding Putin's nuts into powder? They could ramp up the rhetoric pretty quickly. Start promising to dump any Russian sovereign debt we hold. Promise to rain hell upon the Russian separatists in Crimea and Ukraine. Explain the vulnerability of pipelines and how unfortunate it would be if Europe had to switch to our tankers if anything happens to the Russian lines. Promise to seize any real estate holdings even suspected of being part of Russian money laundering.

Putin would have to react. And he's got about the same credibility as Trump right now with all the brutality he's sponsored.

If he goes all in on Trump, and I suspect he would, that reinforces the perception that he's Trump's boss.

Trump would be forced to choose between getting closer to Putin or pissing him off and who knows what will happen if he pisses him off.

I don't see a downside.

Title: Re: Democrats weakness on Russia
Post by Eegore on 12/23/19 at 07:59:20

Threatening violations of WTO treaties, and war against a UN member to resolve our political issues at home isn't exactly the first choice I'd imagine.

Title: Re: Democrats weakness on Russia
Post by srinath on 12/23/19 at 08:38:55

121410253F3D325C0 wrote:

I agree - they almost all seem to be under putin's influence, and they're railroading some of their own for being putin's puppet (Tulsi) I sadly suspect the ones that are capable of independent thought and not beholden to corporate interests will get railroaded again.

Seriously starting to like someone in the pre primary stage = a way to get screwed multiple times.
Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Democrats weakness on Russia
Post by WebsterMark on 12/23/19 at 09:47:52

7C7A7E4B51535C320 wrote:

If he goes all in on Trump, and I suspect he would, that reinforces the perception that he's Trump's boss.

Trump would be forced to choose between getting closer to Putin or pissing him off and who knows what will happen if he pisses him off.

I don't see a downside.

Title: Re: Democrats weakness on Russia
Post by srinath on 12/23/19 at 10:49:40

1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 wrote:

[quote author=7C7A7E4B51535C320 link=1577114582/0#0 date=1577114582]
If he goes all in on Trump, and I suspect he would, that reinforces the perception that he's Trump's boss.

Trump would be forced to choose between getting closer to Putin or pissing him off and who knows what will happen if he pisses him off.

I don't see a downside.

So your real question is why don't the Democrats suspend any thoughts of the implications to the nation when there's an opportunity to improve their party's political standing?

This sounds familiar.....where have I heard this before....? [/quote]

What implications to the nation ???? You do understand Russia is about as influential to the US as lets say for lack of a better country - Indonesia right ? Irrelevant to the core - atleast not till you count NAFTA which wont pay their fair share and Russia squeezes them, and in that case much like Obama did, happily throw the Europeans under the bus … Ofcourse the only country in NAFTA that was worth anything and of interest to Russia was Ukraine and specifically Crimea, which he happily threw to the wolves, and declared, if he goes anywhere else, we'll change his calculus by inducing some nuanced crap by producing some sanctions or some smelly gas or something like that.

I don't see any other problem or implications.

BTW the whole impeachment and Russia and Ukraine crap IMHO is a cover up for the fact democrats lost Ukraine and Crimea. But lets not drag that into here.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Democrats weakness on Russia
Post by NHLycan on 12/23/19 at 13:34:30

Perhaps it's not clear but this is predicated on the belief that Russia under Putin is America's enemy and needs to be curtailed. Apologies if that was unclear.

Title: Re: Democrats weakness on Russia
Post by srinath on 12/23/19 at 13:43:10

535551647E7C731D0 wrote:

Perhaps it's not clear but this is predicated on the belief that Russia under Putin is America's enemy and needs to be curtailed. Apologies if that was unclear.

Well Russia has no influence except where Crimea and Ukraine were concerned. Most other ex USSR countries where Russia held sway has no value. So Russia has done the only thing the "enemy" can do and got away with it. You don't think they're coming to occupy Florida now do you ? So that should end the "enemy" situation. They've taken all they care to take right under Obama's nose, and he said if they go somewhere else, they will change his nuance by making him do calculus using smelly gas. If I recall. It was nuanced.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Democrats weakness on Russia
Post by raydawg on 12/24/19 at 08:27:37

BTW the whole impeachment and Russia and Ukraine crap IMHO is a cover up for the fact democrats lost Ukraine and Crimea. But lets not drag that into here.

Reading the above I couldn't help but think this mindset is one of our nations greatest obstacles, to overcome......

The offense should never blame the defense, for losing a football game....
Their are two sides to the football, and both sides need to play as a team if expecting to win with any surety at all.....