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Message started by eau de sauvage on 12/20/19 at 21:35:08

Title: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by eau de sauvage on 12/20/19 at 21:35:08

It's been a big theme for Trump and it's been amplified to bizarre degrees by the entire Republican House, none of whom not a single one saw a problem with anything. So how has it come to this, it must be because 'hate'.

Now when I think about that word it doesn't really have any meaning that I can pin down. It's not uncommon to hear people say they hate anything from food to leaves, from wind to parking lots, I have to ask, what word these people reserve for someone that has done them some real malicious harm.

It's really just an expression of an emotion and it's the very same emotion as 'love', it's just twisted and warped until it looks like hatred. It's just an expression of inner conflict.

It's as though it's impossible to dislike, disapprove or to call out something as 'wrong' without it being framed as an emotional response.

Take Lindsay Graham for example, he's accused Democrats of being motivated by hatred. But what about when Lindsey Graham memorably called Mr. Trump “a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot” who was “unfit for office.”

Now I think we can be confident that those words were Graham's true sentiment based I suppose on empirical facts. And Trump has not given Graham any reason to change his mind. In fact quite the opposite.

It's true, Trump is amongst other things all that Graham said, but they are just facts, there's no emotion, no hate.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/21/19 at 04:40:50

Hate is a complicated word. It is not the opposite of love, that's selfishness.

God hates. "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

If you look at the widespread, unhinged opposition to Trump as soon as it became clear it the 2016 campaign he was going to be a factor one way or another, it far exceeded anything in recent history. It was so pervasive that FBI agents, well established media personalities and members of Congress lied repeatedly. Many of these people went out of their way and took actions whose goal was to damage him not just political but personally.

That's not a manifestation of disagreement. That's not an expression of policy opposition. That's hatred.

And lets be honest, Trump hated Hilary. Trump hates Schiff. Trump is honest in his hatred.

Look, it's okay to hate sometimes. You hate President Donald J Trump. You hate him. It's okay to own it.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by NHLycan on 12/21/19 at 05:33:07

Eau, I think his rallies are instructional.

"Lock Her Up" they chant. Laughing at the handicapped. Threatening the media who are brave enough to show up. His more timely targets like whatever minority female has failed to show her belly, AOC, Maxine Waters, etc, are dragged out so the crowd can scream about sending them back.

They're like the Two Minute Hates from 1984. It makes his supporters feel good to hate their fellow Americans.

Then it's just projection. They project that inhumanity onto the other tribe. 'Those guys over there are filled with hate. Kill them!'

It's so obvious you'd be forgiven for not thinking it would be effective anymore but Trump rode it all the way to an electoral college victory.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/21/19 at 07:13:21

5B5D596C76747B150 wrote:

Like your other recent post NHL; there's very little in the way of reality in this. No one made fun of handicaps, I know what you're referring to but that was a someone's interpretation which has been shown not correct. Not sure what the "minority female belly: thing even means. As far as hating their fellow Americans, unlike some anti-Trump protest, I'm not aware that multiple people, including a member of the press, has been seriously injured and sent to the hospital at any of these rallies.

Like Eau, you hate Trump. I get it. I'm fine with you feeling that way and I understand why you do. But let's try to deal in reality, at least a little.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by Serowbot on 12/21/19 at 08:07:54

536166777061764965766F040 wrote:

Trump requires a lot of "interpretation"... :-?

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/21/19 at 08:39:10

Maybe so, but that doesn’t change the reality of it. He was not making fun of that reporter. It was demonstrated repeatedly that was his little thing for picking on people he thought were being ridiculous.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by raydawg on 12/21/19 at 08:48:51

Wear a ball cap into a restaurant that says MAGA.....

That is hate you'll see.

Work for this administration, and take your family out....that is hate.

Be a Hollywood personality and cut off his head, call out F him at awards shows, or want to toss sheet in his face, that is hate.

Hate knows no one race, gender, religion, football team......

I wonder who on this board has used the F word, directed at their opposition, more?

That might be a symptom of hate.

Mirrors can be a great tool.....

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by Serowbot on 12/21/19 at 08:54:50

142621303726310E223128430 wrote:

Show me an instance of Trump mocking someone else with the same spastic motions.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNXgjnBpxGI[/media]

PS
It occurs to me that the truly disgusting thing, is the number of clips you'll have to look through of Trump mocking people.
This is the President. Mocking people.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/21/19 at 11:07:14

If I showed you, would it change your mind?

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/21/19 at 11:15:39

Second or third item on my search.
https://www.catholics4trump.com/the-true-story-donald-trump-did-not-mock-a-reporters-disability/

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by eau de sauvage on 12/21/19 at 15:25:10

Does everyone see what has happened here. Pretty cute eh?

Let me unpack the meta thread. Basically I'm appalled that the Republican method of opposing fact based claims is not to challenge those claims with rational argument (which is why Collins, and Gohmert Pyle, and you know the rest are always screaming their tirade) properly explained, no they say it's all because 'hate'. All that does is explain it away it explains nothing.

Then Professor Webster immediately does exactly with his unhinged opposition to Trump comment. Now the problem with this is the same as the problem with hate, if you're gonna use a word like unhinged you need to follow it up with not some batty thing that happened, but a consistent unhingedness in the opposition.

There's no point pointing out that that is of course just more projection, because the GOP has appropriated that one too. Now when the Democrats point out the obvious projections the Republican answer back, 'that is just you projecting'.

See how it works. Hey, you've heard, the Democrats use these words but the difference is if you examine what follows they point exactly why such an extreme word is used. But they don't really have to, I mean take Trumps 6 page embarrassment to the House. Trump is such an ignorant unhinged brain dead clinical narcissist, that he really believes he's now what is essentially a six page tweet, into the official records of History.

I invite you all to take a couple of minutes to forget all about the fray below and float up into the sky, we're mostly all brown bread by now, and there are only a handful of American who remember when he was still alive. Now he's studied as part of American history. Even though we're not academics I must still wonder what it will mean, because he's just a delusional illiterate fool. None of this will change even he he won the next election. I think this is what Pelosi meant when she said, 'he's impeached, forever'.

What all this does in the mind of the non thinking person, is to make it too hard to bother to sort out the nuts from the shinola.

That's what WM did and does, watch it, if you point out what they did, it's 'projection', and it's easy for the little lawyer in the mind to make anything stick.

Webster, please explain how the opposition is 'unhinged' or mentally unbalanced; deranged. don't obfuscate, and try not to use this very technique in your answer (you will of course)

In case you think my description of Trump is over the top, I can back it all up. Very similar to how The Friendly Jordie, had to legally prove that it was literally true that Clive Palmer was a fatty mccrappity smackhead, and more it's pretty funny.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJ7CSRRCDM[/media]

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by srinath on 12/21/19 at 16:55:06

Bleh, Bleh, Bleh, Lemme know when all this Sheite catches on fire and I'll come by and watch.
And if the "calculus" of these "Nuanced" garbage appears again, seriously I'll waste my vote - again - by voting for Donald J Duck.

You're forgetting these fools are all politicians, you're arguing if eating constipated sheite vs diarrhea sheitete is better for you.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by raydawg on 12/21/19 at 17:08:40

10110A0D02170B630 wrote:

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by eau de sauvage on 12/21/19 at 17:33:55

@srinath @Ray

I thank you for your useful analysis.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/22/19 at 06:35:09

Webster, please explain how the opposition is 'unhinged' or mentally unbalanced; deranged. don't obfuscate, and try not to use this very technique in your answer (you will of course)

...how the opposition is unhinged, mentally unbalanced, deranged? Sure. Would you like videos of the violent protest during Trump's first inauguration? Would a reprint of the ridiculous Kavanaugh rape stories which professional editors automatically assumed to be true despite obvious flaws? Would videos like the recent one of the young boy being beaten senseless because he wore a Trump hat to school? Would that suffice? Or how about I just reprint the entire Muller report as evidence how deranged the opposition to Trump is?

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/22/19 at 06:38:29

7F6D797A6D6B690C0 wrote:

@srinath @Ray

I thank you for your useful analysis.

Sew; you've gotten for Christmas what you wanted. A relatively civil Tall Table. Yet you repeatedly give Eau a pass. I saw you give Ray a warning a few days ago, but after that, I've see Eau post several comments far worse.

Now we either are changing at the table or we aren't, take your pick. You've gotten what you wanted, now don't let it slip back simply because the offender is on your side.

Eau, I've not responded personally to you and I won't. I made that pledge and I will stick to it. You better do the same.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by pg on 12/22/19 at 07:08:50

152720313627300F233029420 wrote:

[quote author=7F6D797A6D6B690C0 link=1576906509/0#13 date=1576978435]@srinath @Ray

I thank you for your useful analysis.

[quote author=33213536212725400 link=1576823612/0#14 date=1576884421]@Serowbot
This is an international site.
We welcome Savage riders from all over the world.
8-)

It's more than that Serow we are all the same distance from each other on this site. pg's comment just shows his utter ignorance of how the world works and what the inter webs is in relation to the social structure of society. The virtual communities on the internet has turned the entire world into a global community.

Easy now Bot your going into unfriendly territory. It is all well in good if the comments are in lock-step with your opinion.

Yet, I was on the receiving end of:
'How are you so incredibly stupid'
'pg's comment just shows his utter ignorance'

Are you sure you want to go down this road?

Best regards,
[/quote]

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by raydawg on 12/22/19 at 09:13:56

Well speaking solely for myself.... I don't care if I am called a name, threatened to censor me, etc.....

I think this site makes up a good percentage of Bot's life, he has lots of energy invested in it....I don't.

If I am kicked off, etc.....so be it.

I was attracted to the board years ago, when we had civil exchanges and dialogue, where folks conversed in a manner that fostered good intentions.

Not anymore...... maybe a few worthy attempts, but they die quickly with drive-bys, copying and pasting, name calling, and such.

Snuff open conversation, even that which appears unseemly, on pure personal bias, and it will only hurt MJ's ability to earn revenue.

I think in a strange way, not sure if I can link it in a coherent manner, but this board is a microcosm of the driving factors and conditions, that led to Trump being elected, out there in the nation.
When you curtail free speech, and disenfranchise a given segment, you get push back, in other ways and means, if you can't get access to the microphone in the bully pulpit....

We see that threats here.....and the results.

I'd hope folks can bring it back, folks talk about change, very few take the first step.

Mirroring others, bad behavior, like Trump and tweeting, and tweeting at Trump.....is getting us no where.
Yes, it has revealed the true demeanor and makeup of many entrenched politicians, journalist, etc......but again, that solves not one problem/issue, other that exposing the deceitful.....we need to fix problems in our cities, states, nation......

I invite you to disagree..... ;D

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by Serowbot on 12/22/19 at 09:49:38

695B5C4D4A5B4C735F4C553E0 wrote:

Sew; you've gotten for Christmas what you wanted. A relatively civil Tall Table.

Yes, my Christmas wish was to get ripped by you bunch of whiny bozos.

I was out of town most of yesterday.
Despite DaWg's imaginings,.. I don't live here, and I don't read every post.
Police yourselves.
Quit whining.
Happy Holidays.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/22/19 at 10:18:46

That was uncalled for.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by raydawg on 12/22/19 at 10:43:50

794B4C5D5A4B5C634F5C452E0 wrote:

That was uncalled for.

Well there you go Web.... same technique, drive by, snark, divert, dodge, etc....

He still won't answer me if he is going to move again, if Trump wins....

The libs made a big deal out it, then what, just abandoned it, it was all for show, theatrics....???

Sorta like how you invited a guy, that use to whine her incessantly, who has ran away, or got arrested for bestiality...to wager.
In a sense, a technique that would give witness to convictions of what they say/post......

maybe i got it wrong, perhaps he is looking for a new place for him and Bot to move too, over by Greta ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/22/19 at 16:04:00

Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?

Dumbest FUKKING question ever.

The question to ask is
Why do lefties hate the best president we've seen.??

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by eau de sauvage on 12/22/19 at 16:27:04

@pg and @Ray or @WM, can't remember who said what any more.

Seriously have you had a sense of humour transplant, or do I have to explain it to you. actually srinath wrote one of the fecal post so I can't be bothered to sort it out. I'm typing baked.

You were both using analogies (correction it was sri, and ray who made the comments) that involved two types of fecal matter. And your posts had no actual content other than this, therefore I sarcastically thanked you for your analysis, which at the same time reusing the first part of the word to blend in with the spirit of your replies.

Let me know if you need further explanation.

P.S, pg, you seem a little thick but how it works is that if you engage in good faith, you can call me any names you like I don't care, however if you think I'm going to tolerate your 8th grade bulls!t, well you keep it up, because I've taken a tip from your mate Trump, you attack me in a post with no other content and prepare to get it back in spade, I may strike anywhere at any time. Do not make the error of thinking the attack will be immediate.

Alternatively you can build up some credit with me by proper debate and then you can earn a free gratuitous insult without comeback. I think this is very fair and you can either agree or fcuk off. I don't really care. Be best.

ps, I've gone back and re read it, I see that perhaps pg and ray are complaining about other stuff like 'incredibly stupid', if i say something like that then I give my reasoning. You can do the same, it's the reasoning
that I parse in threads, I don't care about name calling or expletives, however if there's not logic, no reasoning no other purpose then all bets are off.

I've gotta say though the politics forum has improved from a year ago.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by eau de sauvage on 12/22/19 at 16:41:09

312E282F32350434043C2E22695B0 wrote:

Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?

Dumbest FUKKING question ever.

The question to ask is
Why do lefties hate the best president we've seen.??

Hey JoG, howya doin'? That is such a classic JoG post, no one does that better than you. There's really no answer.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by eau de sauvage on 12/22/19 at 16:45:34

Ray regarding your post below, how can you say that with a straight face. I came into this forum without any knowledge of it and I was pretty surprised to be greeted with trash by the usual bunch. Remember? then there was a mini skirmish, then I suggested we clear the smoke and then a few people voluntarily announced they weren't going to go the trash route, then that juste became a license to freely abuse. Remember all this, it's all documented. Then I made various suggestions that we all agree to allow Serowbot to simply enforce some agreed rules. Then there were howls of 'censorship'.

But no none of this was acceptable. So don't start whinging now.

56455D40455343240 wrote:

[quote author=794B4C5D5A4B5C634F5C452E0 link=1576906509/15#19 date=1577038726]That was uncalled for.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by Eegore on 12/22/19 at 17:08:39

"I came into this forum without any knowledge of it and I was pretty surprised to be greeted with trash by the usual bunch. Remember?"

To be fair I only asked you, respectfully, if you had business dealings in the US and you called me an "eel". My assessment is you were, at that time, searching for things to be offended about, which is easy to do on these forums.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1542265648/0

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by eau de sauvage on 12/22/19 at 17:36:57

Eegore,

I don't need links or threads, my interactions with you are few and not complicated but I will tell you and I'm sure you will remember the exact moment that this (whatever this is) began.

For no reason at all, I didn't know of you at all, other than I had you marked as someone who was going to play everything with a straight bat. I thought at time you were a little too cute, but so I was wary. And with good reason because, you answered one of my threads by not commenting on the thread, but pointing out that I'm posting a lot of threads.

I thought that was pretty strange coming from you, because how am I different from the great batches of other threads. When I queried you about this you then tried to justify it by saying that 'oh it's too many too read'.

You should go back and brush up on that because you're just upset and you've been upset ever since that I called you out on it. You're still polite, so I called you sly.

And if you are upset by being outed as a sly little troll, then, and I mean this sincerely, prove me wrong. If I am indeed wrong and misjudged you then I would not want to hold a false idea.

So check out the image below, it's just off todays front page but it could be any page since the time I first posted, everyone has a little flurry of posts, no one minds.

So my question to you is this, why did you answer a thread, and made no thread comment at all, other than to take issue with the number of threads I post.

Explain that to my satisfaction and I'll admit I got you wrong. Or you can just say, 'yeah, you're right it was pointlessly snarky and did look a bit ridiculous and I got caught up then in trying to defend it', and then we can be golden again.

But if anyone want to get the maximum amount of respect from me then if they pose me a question and i then refute it, they need to then refute my refutation with actual logic. At the bottom of this post are the rules of engagement that have to be respected for me to take anyone completely seriously. Anything less is known as Jalpa in Sanskrit. ::)

The Nyaya school identified various types of arguments that hindered or obstructed the path of genuine scientific pursuit, suggesting perhaps, that there may have been considerable practical resistance to their unstinting devotion to truth-seeking and scientific accuracy.

They list the term jalpa - an argument not for the sake of arriving at the truth but for the sake of seeking victory (this term was coined perhaps to distinguish exaggerated and rhetorical arguments, or hyperbole from genuine arguments);

vitanda (or cavil) to identify arguments that were specious or frivolous, or intended to divert attention from the substance of the debate, that were put-downs intended to lower the dignity or credibility of the opponent; and

chal - equivocation or ruse to confuse the argument.

Three types of chal are listed:
vakchala - or verbal equivocation where the words of the opponent are deliberately misused to mean or suggest something different than what was intended;

samanyachala or false generalization, where the opponents arguments are deliberately and incorrectly generalized in a way to suggest that the original arguments were ridiculous or absurd;

uparachala - misinterpreting a word which is used figuratively by taking it literally. Also mentioned is jati, a type of fallacious argument where an inapplicable similiarity is cited to reject an argument, or conversely an irrelevant dissimiliarity is cited to reject an argument.

http://https://i.postimg.cc/YqVCttWh/Screen-Shot-2019-12-23-at-11-22-55-am.jpg

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by MnSpring on 12/22/19 at 17:43:32

4C5A4D50485D504B3F0 wrote:

Trump requires a lot of "interpretation"... :-?

Is that the same, 'interpretation', that the 'news',
does for you?

The UL, FDS, Socalist, 'interpretation'.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by MnSpring on 12/22/19 at 17:46:47

Still looking for the Bar next to the Chicken Coop in Ajo.

Or should I be looking out in BLM land, where some locals drop off food/water for ileagals, who ARE, 'above the law'.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by Eegore on 12/22/19 at 19:20:32

"And if you are upset by being outed as a sly little troll, then, and I mean this sincerely, prove me wrong. If I am indeed wrong and misjudged you then I would not want to hold a false idea. "

I'm not emotionally invested in this forum. I was just indicating that it seems you feel that people here were rude to you for no reason and I feel the same. I also feel you were rude for no reason, or at least easily offended, and you have indicated it is because you think I'm a troll, which is fine. I simply find it interesting that you bring up how people are rude to you, and are also rude yourself. I have done this with multiple members, not you exclusively.

"So my question to you is this, why did you answer a thread, and made no thread comment at all, other than to take issue with the number of threads I post."

I did not "take issue", I was asking a direct question. I have no opinion on the volume of posts any member makes. Do you expect people here to research, evaluate and respond to that volume of questions? When you asked what my motive was I repeated the question, since that was my only motive. I was asking if you expected people to research and respond to all of those posts. That's it.

A number of people here ask questions, get an educated response then fall silent.

To me, this is no different than me questioning what the minimum time-frame is for people to respond to a post before JoG starts insulting people. Or when I asked Lost Artist why he logs in if the forum is "forcing" him to be an @sshole. Or when I was asked why I "always" defend Trump and had to link threads where I criticize his lies to the US military at a press conference.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by eau de sauvage on 12/22/19 at 20:14:31

OK Eegore, I'm going to take you at your word, so let's investigate shall we.

So you just had a simple query as to whether I expect people to read my posts.

Have you ever asked that of anyone else here. So you think it's a question to which there is an actual meaningful answer?

There's only two answers possible, yes, or no. Let's look at both of them to see the difference it makes to have the question answered.

Hypothetical time. Righteo, so you ask me if I expect anyone to read all the posts I make. Suppose I say no, what do you say to that.

Now suppose I answered yes (which I wouldn't because we all know that would be absurd). What do you say to that?

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by Eegore on 12/23/19 at 00:49:32

"Have you ever asked that of anyone else here."

Yes.

"Suppose I say no, what do you say to that."

Ok.

"Now suppose I answered yes (which I wouldn't because we all know that would be absurd). What do you say to that?"

I would have indicated that the speed in which you were posting content is for the most part faster than one's ability to accurately research and provide an educated response to. Not impossible however, especially considering multiple people are assigned to this forum for that purpose.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by raydawg on 12/23/19 at 05:55:31

I would rate this post, a 8.......

On second thought, a 9, as in asinine ;D ;D ;D

MERRY CHRISTMAS........!!!!!! pudding :-* :-* :-*

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by thumperclone on 12/23/19 at 16:15:58

7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 wrote:

Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?

Dumbest FUKKING question ever.

The question to ask is
Why do lefties hate the best president we've seen.??

the best IMPEACHED!!!!
no NIXON was better he ran the coward

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/23/19 at 16:56:25

Lefties said
Stock market will crash
Setting records
Unemployment
Lowest
Minorities employed
Record levels
You idiots are perpetually Wrong
And never in doubt about your next idiotic statement.

Laughable fools..
Pelosi

We must push forward
To protect our Democracy

Uh, republic, idiot

Aaaaand
Let's just drop anchor..
Really?
Morons..

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by srinath on 12/23/19 at 19:13:59

5B475A425F4A5D4C4340414A2F0 wrote:

[quote author=7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 link=1576906509/15#21 date=1577059440]Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?

Dumbest FUKKING question ever.

The question to ask is
Why do lefties hate the best president we've seen.??

the best IMPEACHED!!!!
no NIXON was better he ran the coward[/quote]

Wait a sec here - they are going to re-impeach him.
Bloody fcuking hell if they do that, I will change my vote from Donald Duck to Donald Trump. What a waste of soundbites my entertainment and … does it even make sense other than a spectacular admission of defeat.
I mean its like Greta Thunberg eating a cheeseburger cos she thought no one was looking then when caught saying, yea yea planet hotter etc etc, but this is Fcuking delish. You stop that global warming now. OK , now I want another burger, so my double cheese burger should teach a lesson to y'all to not warm globally. How dare you.

JOG - trump extended the recovery but kicking out illegals and squeezing the H1 abusers and has created a lot of US jobs available for US citizens instead of reserved for foreigners. See when job is taken by a foreigner, $$$ is spent as remittances to other countries, if it goes to a US citizen, they buy cars, bikes, houses, toys, food etc etc all in the US. Tariffs, and squeezing out foreign labor helps that domestic $$$ being spent locally. Not export $$$ and import shietete. Seriously I want both to continue, china is robbing US manufacturing and Mexico and India and other countries are robbing US jobs. We have several million homeless, let google HR walk the streets and find people who would work for them, so can GM, ford, and every other business in the US. I'm sure a lot of smart people have ended up homeless just cos it was easier and cheaper to find someone legal or H1 trough an intermediary subcontractor. Screw all that. both those programs need to die. those suck $$$ out of US economy and pull foreign goods in, we need the opposite, we need to make lots of sheitet and have the Chinese and Indians and Mexicans and everyone else buy it with USD.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by Eegore on 12/23/19 at 20:50:04

"china is robbing US manufacturing and Mexico and India and other countries are robbing US jobs"

I think when businesses choose to go to China, Mexico and India it's hard to claim they are robbing us. That's like saying I took my car to my neighbors house and paid him to use it and then tell people he stole my car.

If more people were capable or willing to stay off Amazon and instead buy the same product at more cost, or do without, we might have some more grounds to complain about where the jobs are going right? Obviously there is a ton more variables, but consumer habits is a pretty big part of it. Buy that $30,000 truck for $45,000 so Americans can work. Buy that iPhone for $1800 instead of $900 so Americans can work. Or buy used, and don't get an iPhone, use a flip phone, use a land line, use Skype but do not use Skype tech support if something goes wrong or you are billed incorrectly since that is offshore, just cancel Skype.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by srinath on 12/24/19 at 05:16:13

735351594453360 wrote:

This is not why I am saying china is robbing the US. China routinely uses political prisoners to keep their cocts down, they routinely get heavily subsidized by the govt, they also confiscate private land for industries, house people in massive matchbox structures essentially making them pay for accommodation etc etc as well as not buy things from the US when they are supposed to by trade agreements. Saudi arabia does it to a larger scale to Indian workers including confiscating their passports, and china has been strip mining Nepal, Africa etc etc to artificially keep the costs down. These countries costs of producing goods will be much much higher if they were to pay and have standards for workers like they are supposed to. China also artificially lowers their currency to make them cheaper.
Its not consumers choice really, Consumer has no choice because they have been doing it for decades, decimating the entire US industry.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by srinath on 12/24/19 at 05:26:10

I didn't even go looking for it - this is what I found.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/china-denies-report-of-forced-labor-over-tesco-christmas-cards/ar-BBYffXN?ocid=ientp

Stuff like this is why I say China is robbing India. All the screaming about living wage etc etc AOC etc do, if this is happening else where, and we buy all their crap, its really rewarding those that don't pay living or anything wages at all.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/24/19 at 05:58:19

That's a variation of the "break windows so the local businesses stay economically sound" theory. If someone went around breaking windows, homeowners would have to spend money buying supplies or hiring workers to fix the windows. That improves the local economy because more cash is put into the system, right? Wrong.

That cash is no longer available for other uses which would have been chosen by the homeowner for various reasons Same here. You spend $300 instead of $600 on a product made in China. You may have spent up to $500, but never $600. Essentially you've got $200 dollars of which some portion will be spent on one or two other goods or services.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by srinath on 12/24/19 at 06:26:46

7A484F5E59485F604C5F462D0 wrote:

Not exactly, but chasing your example in the same small town, you're assuming the 500 is fixed, what if next month cos all the workers are busy fixing stuff you start to see increases in your wages. That's happening now, after 10 yrs of Obaba's Jobless recover, then a wageless recovery. Why do you think so ? Cos the example in your small town case is, we broke windows and threw out all the illegals as well as the Chinese made crap. You now need to make windows and do it with people who are homeowners in the town. Those illegals who were sending remittances by the million back to China/Mexico/India are gone, along with the kids who were paying taxes for 2 and sending 30 kids to the school, the Chinese crap windows are gone, local window factory has to make the windows. They're gonna have to pay more to make people work there cos 1/2 their workers are gone and they cant treat these locals like chit either.

Something like that is at work, and breaking windows is a poor analogy, cos it means living with a windowless house, but it applies to building new software, building houses, raising chickens etc etc. We need those without having to break chit.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/24/19 at 06:50:46

Broken Windows is a sound, proven economic illustration. Often used to disprove the war is good for the economy idea. Liberalism survives on the belief that Broken Windows is valid, that government can fully understand and dictate the movement of the economy by pulling a few cleverly selected levers.
The better theory is the Invisible Hands concept. Let people (the market) select. Obviously, there needs to be some oversight, no one should object to that. The entire debate is how much oversight.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by srinath on 12/24/19 at 07:00:38

There are millions of levers everywhere and both sides are busy pulling whatever they like. Lower taxes, lower regulation no unions no benefits this and that is the republican side, free immigrants, free sheitte from china, free H1's, no gas burning vehicles, no meat, etc etc is the democrat side.

For now the throw out illegals and crack down on H1 fraud is valid and needs to continue, that's all I'm saying.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by WebsterMark on 12/24/19 at 08:13:31

I agree with that.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by raydawg on 12/24/19 at 08:39:39

Look all, Trump is getting hammered for his isolationism/protectionism, so.....????
That Genie is not going back into the bottle, no way Jose.

The very nature of the computer and INTERNET technologies have made us a global economy, the biggest overall factor.

You will have local markets, always will, service, trade, etc....

Please remember the scare tactics as they were called, when economist warned of the constraints America's manufacturers would suffer, with environmentalism push upon them, etc.....

Look how other social issues appear to rise, accordingly.......when you burden business with other social issues as well......

As someone mentioned, lots of levers, influences, and veritable(s), involved....

Couple that with devious and deceitful whoring politicians, who become extremely wealthy, as public SERVANTS.....WTF?????

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by srinath on 12/24/19 at 11:34:05

516364757263744B67746D060 wrote:

I agree with that.

As an added benefit, that "throw out illegals and H1's" move also cuts down their co2 footprint by 90% or more. Internet is fine, we need them to all internet over to the fields here and work or do software crap. That's the whole idea.
If your fields aren't harvested, then people don't need to eat that food, next year get smart and let weeds grow over. They trap carbon a lot faster and better than planting almond trees which take a gallon of water per almond. Again, we over produce food, we over harvest food, we over process food, and the evidence is in the people getting fatter and sicker.
Its not only better for the environment its also better for public health some of which is government responsibility. We have a starving homeless population and yet we find innovative ways to process and ruin food and slowly kill the ones that can afford the food. Seriously if you cant hire legal labor, adhere to all the standards and make a profit, your business model is bad. You're making sheitete no one needs. Now to make it fair, no one gets illegals, they'd all be deported. So its a level playing field. That actually is what Trump seems to have done, throwing out illegals, or more than throwing out, put the fear of Trump in all of em, so they never even show up, that's a pretty level field if you ask me. Can be better, but that takes man power to do a ground level enforcement. Administrative enforcement is far cheaper.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Why do Trump supporters think people hate him?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/24/19 at 17:41:03

Like giving them drivers licenses