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General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Sounds about right....yes, no?
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Message started by raydawg on 12/08/19 at 18:13:13

Title: Sounds about right....yes, no?
Post by raydawg on 12/08/19 at 18:13:13

Sally Pipes: Sanders, Warren want ‘Medicare-for-all’ like Canada – But Canadian health care is awful

Democratic presidential candidates Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren want you to believe Canada’s health care system is a dream come true. And they want to make the dream even better with their “Medicare-for-all” plans.

Don’t believe them.

In truth, Canada's system of socialized medicine is actually a nightmare.

It has left hospitals overcrowded, understaffed and unable to treat some patients. Americans would face the same dismal reality if Canadian-style "Medicare-for-all" takes root here.

Canada's health care system is the model for the "Medicare-for-all" plan that both Sanders, I-Vt., and Warren, D-Mass., embrace.

North of the border, all residents have taxpayer-funded, comprehensive health coverage. In theory, they can walk into any hospital or doctor's office and get the care they need, without a co-pay or deductible.

Sanders and Warren would one-up Canada by providing all Americans with free prescription drugs, free long-term care, free dental care, free vision care, and free care for people with hearing problems.

Who could possibly object to all that free care?

Well, politicians in Canada object. They say even their country can’t do what Sanders and Warren want because all this free care would cost too much and cause other problems.

But for Sanders and Warren, money is no object. They can just raise taxes as higher and higher and higher. And the huge tax increases needed to fund “Medicare-for all” would hit us all – there aren’t enough millionaires and billionaires to foot the bill.

It’s true that everyone in Canada has health coverage. But that coverage doesn't always secure care.
That's more than double the wait patients faced 25 years ago.

In Nova Scotia, patients faced a median total wait time of 34 weeks. More than 6 percent of the province's population was waiting for treatment in 2018.

Waiting for care is perhaps better than not being able to seek it at all. The hospital emergency department in Annapolis Royal in Nova Scotia recently announced that it would simply close on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

There aren't enough doctors available to staff the facility.

Canadians can't escape waits like these unless they leave the country and pay out of pocket for health care abroad. Private health insurance is illegal in Canada.

Private clinics in Canada are not allowed to charge patients for "medically necessary" services that the country's single-payer plan covers.
And the government has deemed just about every conceivable service "medically necessary."

For the past decade, Dr. Brian Day, an orthopedic surgeon who runs the private Cambie Surgery Centre in British Columbia, has tried to offer Canadians a way out of the waits by expanding patient access to private clinics.
He's been battling his home province in court for a decade to essentially grant patients the ability to pay providers directly for speedier care.

During closing arguments in Day's trial before the British Columbia Supreme Court at the end of November, Dr. Roland Orfaly of the British Columbia Anesthesiologists' Society testified that over 300 patients in the province died waiting for surgery from 2015 to 2016 because of a shortage of anesthesiologists. And that was in just one of the province's five regional health authorities!

Shortages of crucial medical personnel and equipment are common throughout Canada. The country has fewer than three doctors for every 1,000 residents. That puts it 26th among 28 countries with universal health coverage schemes. If current trends continue, the country will be short 60,000 full-time nurses in just three years.

In 2018, Canada had less than 16 CT scanners for every million people. The United States, by comparison, had nearly 45 per million.

These shortages, combined with long waits, can lead to incredible suffering.

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In 2017, one British Columbia woman who was struggling to breathe sought treatment in an overcrowded emergency room. She was given a shot of morphine and sent home. She died two days later.

That same year, a Halifax, Nova Scotia, man dying of pancreatic cancer was left in a cold hallway for six hours when doctors couldn't find him a bed. Yes, people must sometimes be treated on hallway floors because of severe overcrowding.

In fact, some Canadian hospital emergency rooms look like they belong in poverty-stricken Third World countries.
WBUR Radio, Boston’s NPR station, documented these terrible conditions in a story about a hospital in Nova Scotia earlier this month.

Americans who find the promise of free health care difficult to resist would do well to take a hard look north.

Sure, “Medicare-for-all” as pitched by Sanders and Warren sounds good. But the reality is far from what these two far-left candidates are promising. Like a drug that helps you in one way but causes even more serious problems,

“Medicare-for-all” has dangerous side effects that can be hazardous to your health.

Title: Re: Sounds about right....yes, no?
Post by Eegore on 12/08/19 at 19:10:17

While the article copied is anecdotal the general explanation of quality of care is accurate.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sally-pipes-sanders-warren-want-medicare-for-all-like-canada-but-canadian-health-care-is-awful

It all depends on what one considers "quality of care" so until that is clearly defined the argument of how "good" it is in Canada will just go on forever with nothing more than my opinion versus your opinion.

My assessment is that general medical care in Canada is typically less available that in the US. Emergency care is lower and specialized care is rather difficult to get in reasonable timeframes.

Also medical care here is much, much higher in cost so Medicare would need a lot more money that Canada uses.

But "free" sure sounds good. I can remember one time while working triage a family that came in regularly for basic treatment in the ED had said they "Cant wait for Obama to be elected so healthcare will be free."

The interesting thing is that this family didn't pay for ED visits anyway as they were already on full Medicare. They were wanting to vote for a President to give them "free" care that they already never paid a dime for. So I'd say its a good strategy for any politician.

Note: The information in this post is specific to this post. Any comments from other posts about topics like personal insults apply exclusively to that content. Comments about personal insults do not apply to this thread.

Title: Re: Sounds about right....yes, no?
Post by srinath on 12/09/19 at 05:33:27

In the US the medical system treats people as their "customers". Repeat business = business is good. Now when a curable condition presents, the system of private insurance and the ongoing "a pill a day = Kaching kaching" mentality causes true cures from occurring.

Canada's system sucks, however they have the focus on - getting people outta there by any means necessary. Cured if possible, irritated with the system if that's what it comes to, dead or out of the country if that's all that's left. My brother lives in Canadialand, and pretty much has private insurance, and prefers the US system. He says canadia is more crowded and far worse, even with private insurance, however atleast you get to be treated as a "customer"

That system of "get rid of by any means necessary" however has produced this man - Dr Jason Fung - Just 1 little article - https://peterattiamd.com/jasonfung/
He's cured as of ~2yrs ago over 2500 people out of Type 2 diabetes. That doesn't even include people like me, who simply copied him.

Does that endorse the system as a whole ? Maybe not, but in the US the focus is on "medicate and maintain" not on "advise. explain and cure"
Ofcourse Dr Fung has written a book and has a website you can join and he makes $ that way, likely cos being a gubbamint worker, he's paid poorly whether he's successful or a failure. Talk about a disincentivizing system.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Sounds about right....yes, no?
Post by eau de sauvage on 12/09/19 at 05:39:31

Australia has about one fifteenth the GDP and population of the US, and the living standard is similar as is the culture in a broad sense, yet there is universal health care and it all seems pretty seamless.

Therefore it's obviously possible. It seems strange that a wealthy country like the US does not have this.

Title: Re: Sounds about right....yes, no?
Post by pg on 12/09/19 at 05:45:29

31233734232527420 wrote:

The difference is the US spends every last penny on the military industrial complex and 800+ military bases world wide.

Best regards,

Title: Re: Sounds about right....yes, no?
Post by Eegore on 12/09/19 at 05:55:10

My experience has been that "medicate and maintain" will cost the system for more than it will ever make off any one customer.

"It seems strange that a wealthy country like the US does not have this."

Well taxation isn't the issue, it is the total disregard for controlling private insurance costs, among some others. The ACA had a lot of things right for maintaining costs, but the system is large and very complex. Also customers look exclusively at their own costs, which makes sense, but if someone's costs go up because their State representatives refused to use the free Government funding because of political alignment, then they should address their local politicians, but instead most blame the healthcare system.

It's the hospital's fault, or the President's fault my healthcare is so high. That's a huge part of the problem, people blame the minimum contributors to the rising cost so they don't vote for the policies that actually impact cost.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3179196/

https://www.oecd.org/health/health-data.htm

Title: Re: Sounds about right....yes, no?
Post by srinath on 12/09/19 at 05:56:55

And Trickle down economics does not work when you get a new lowest rung every few years. it trickles down to a constantly flushed out set. That sounds like an argument for universal healthcare, so the lowest rung get a bunch of free crap, but then I blame the "already too much free crap" for the constant "new lowest rung" coming here wave after wave. Its almost like they call people far away and tell them hey, there's free crap here, food, schools, healthcare, $$ etc etc. Oh wait a sec, there is, its called a phone.
Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Sounds about right....yes, no?
Post by Eegore on 12/09/19 at 05:57:05

"The difference is the US spends every last penny on the military industrial complex and 800+ military bases world wide."

Actually appropriation of funds prohibits that. But its fun to say.