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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> 6 /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1575660879 Message started by Mavigogun on 12/06/19 at 11:34:39 |
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Title: 6 Post by Mavigogun on 12/06/19 at 11:34:39 Number of migrant children known to have died in Federal custody under Trump administration stewardship: 6 Number known in my life time before Trump: 0 |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by srinath on 12/06/19 at 12:45:12 414D5A454B434B59422C0 wrote:
Yup, hopefully that will discourage more children from trying to come over. Now how many kids made it to the land of 30X CO2 ? Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by Mavigogun on 12/06/19 at 13:00:36 What a revolting person. I might wonder if you are so scared of rejection that you create a pretense for rejection on your terms- but I really don't care to know you more. |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by Eegore on 12/06/19 at 13:12:17 Well there have been children that have died in Federal Custody in the past. Now there has been an increase but to say Trump is the primary cause might be a bit of a stretch since there are many contributing factors, but focusing on two is easiest. Trump era policy, and volume of immigrants. I say both are at fault. It is a tremendous hardship but more immigrants than ever are sending their children alone into the US and like it or not, that is a major contributing factor. I would like to know the true percentage ratio to make a better assessment. How many more immigrants are there per day? Whats the percentage of children? Why have each of those 6 died? Is it truly policy related, or is there a 300% increase in children in the past 3 years? Would any of those children have died if they were not in US Custody? Too many unanswered questions for me to say its the US President's fault. |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by WebsterMark on 12/06/19 at 13:26:41 I'm sure plenty died BT (Before Trump) but highlighting it would not have been beneficial to Obama so it was ignored. Remember the pictures of 'kids in cages' that the media thought were so awful actually occurred under Obama so it was dropped? Prior to that, no President was ever really serious about illegal immigration so any bad events on the border were generally ignored or they were reported as events, not as events caused by a President not belonging to the media's political party. |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/19 at 13:58:49 What would've been done with those children in the past? And has that caused sick children to be used as tools to get someone through the border quickly? How many children have died in transit? |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by Mavigogun on 12/06/19 at 14:14:19 426260687562070 wrote:
I did not refer to all children in Federal custody- without doubt, many children have died in one sort of Federal custody or another. 546661707766714E627168030 wrote:
That isn’t a useful standard, as it provides zero surety. Is it 1000? 10? 0? Provide a reference to any you can identify. I can find record of hundreds of deaths of migrants in ICE custody- but no children before 2017. That’s my best apprehension. If you can improve on that understanding, please do so. Remember the pictures of 'kids in cages' that the media thought were so awful actually occurred under Obama so it was dropped? “The media” is not a person. My research demonstrates reports and protest of children held in unsafe detention conditions by ICE pre-date 2017. My research demonstrates the scale of that abuse increased subsequent to Trump-era policy changes, and includes at least 6 deaths. Was it wrong prior to Trump? Absolutely. Has the mortal consequence of a child falling into ICE custody increased under Trump’s stewardship? Remarkably so, according to record. It is in no way plausible that the same journalists who reported on conditions during the Obama years would not report on child deaths- that just makes zero sense. Prior to that, no President was ever really serious about illegal immigration so any bad events on the border were generally ignored or they were reported as events, not as events caused by a President not belonging to the media's political party. This is demonstrably untrue. Most famously, see “Operation Wetback”- ya, they really called it that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback Prior to this, the 20’s and 30’s saw about 1.8 million people deported illegally under Herbert Hoover. We could go back further. Our history didn’t start with us. |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by Mavigogun on 12/06/19 at 14:34:20 4F5C4B4A55585E5C5708390 wrote:
My understanding is that children were typically held for far shorter periods. Some were held in featureless concrete cells. Separation from guardians was rare. Living through the process is a noteworthy difference. And has that caused sick children to be used as tools to get someone through the border quickly? Do you have an example of this being effective? A case in which an asylum seeker harmed their child, then was granted expedited entry predicated on the child’s health? Such a claim must have a basis. How many children have died in transit? We are responsible for children in our custody- a truth that is unchanged by any prior hardship. Are you suggesting that some number of children dying outside of our borders somehow changes our responsibility to the children in our custody? |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/19 at 15:07:23 2B27302F2129213328460 wrote:
My understanding is that children were typically held for far shorter periods. Some were held in featureless concrete cells. Separation from guardians was rare. Living through the process is a noteworthy difference. And has that caused sick children to be used as tools to get someone through the border quickly? Do you have an example of this being effective? A case in which an asylum seeker harmed their child, then was granted expedited entry predicated on the child’s health? Such a claim must have a basis. How many children have died in transit? We are responsible for children in our custody- a truth that is unchanged by any prior hardship. Are you suggesting that some number of children dying outside of our borders somehow changes our responsibility to the children in our custody?[/quote] (AT) Currently children have been claimed to be used as 'get out of jail' cards for whoever they want to get into the US. So, BT/AT... What would've been done with those children when caught at the border? Are sick children being used as tools to get someone through the border quickly? How many children have died in transit before being caught at the border or suddenly appearing at a hospital? |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by raydawg on 12/06/19 at 15:21:46 3D3C27202F3A264E0 wrote:
Yup, hopefully that will discourage more children from trying to come over. Now how many kids made it to the land of 30X CO2 ? Cool. Srinath.[/quote] Nevermind, Ray-, er, I mean srinath.... I'm completely done with you. You found the line beyond which I have no respect left. |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by srinath on 12/06/19 at 15:39:52 I don't know what has happened here. But killing babies as abortion is OK, but 6 of those who ran through mexico and got to the border and died (maybe from prior illnesses - we don't know) is terrible ? Who knows, what they died of ? Cancer ? HIV ? And we infected and cancered them ? gimme a break. They complain those countries gubbamint are corrupt and hence they flee, OK lets topple their gubbamints and give them a lucrative job, maybe something like growing tropical fruit, which we would then buy from them … oops wait a sec, we did that, and got slapped for it. Seriously, we try to help, we get slapped, we don't bother, we still get slapped, mostly by our own internal losers. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by Eegore on 12/06/19 at 16:01:25 "But killing babies as abortion is OK, but 6 of those who ran through mexico and got to the border and died (maybe from prior illnesses - we don't know) is terrible ?" A good question, but I don't think they share enough similarities to be considered the same problem. Since they are not the same or similar problem they can't have the same or similar solution. Since a same or similar solution can not be reached for both problems what good does comparing them do? It most certainly does not result in a solution for either one. It's like saying I have carb issues with my Savage, and that other guy has starter issues, both result in a dead bike, but comparing the two to come to a solution won't get anywhere. |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by srinath on 12/06/19 at 16:13:52 Eegore I get your point - generally, however several times 6 babies are killed in abortions. That is all OK, but 6 who ran through mexico are somehow not ? Every side has its hypocrisy. I can not get my mind around the fact that that 6 has become a huge issue, besides don't 6 or more die every year in Honudras, Guatemala + all those other ones over there - even when they have not fought their way through mexico ? This is almost like blaming the butterfly in texas for causing a hurricane in china. I'm just pointing out butterflies in china are causing Katrina here. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by oldNslow on 12/06/19 at 16:44:58 6C607768666E66746F010 wrote:
Interesting retort that. What is truly revolting IMO is that it seems obvious that the only real interest or concern for these particular 6 children is that the OP finds their unfortunate deaths just another excuse to justify his own particular political obsession. Trump the kid killer. WTF |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by Eegore on 12/06/19 at 16:47:26 "Every side has its hypocrisy. I can not get my mind around the fact that that 6 has become a huge issue, besides don't 6 or more die every year in Honudras, Guatemala + all those other ones over there - even when they have not fought their way through mexico ?" Yes. I'm just saying that comparative solutions need comparative problems. Complaining needs none of that, and people complain a lot without offering solutions, and that in general allows for a fair amount of hypocrisy as you have pointed out. I mean if we are going to compare dead kids we could pull up any problem and compare it to abortions, or anti-vaccinators, US Border, or domestic violence, school shootings etc. A lot in this case I think has to do with what media sources any one of us is utilizing and how we like to spend our spare time maybe? |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by raydawg on 12/06/19 at 16:47:45 5866676B7965640A0 wrote:
Interesting retort that. What is truly revolting IMO is that it seems obvious that the only real interest or concern for these particular 6 children is that the OP finds their unfortunate deaths just another excuse to justify his own particular political obsession. Trump the kid killer. WTF[/quote] We got a winner here...... Did you drink a certain Kool-Aid, or what was just on sale? ;D ;D ;D ;) |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by pg on 12/06/19 at 17:22:36 4876777B6975741A0 wrote:
Interesting retort that. What is truly revolting IMO is that it seems obvious that the only real interest or concern for these particular 6 children is that the OP finds their unfortunate deaths just another excuse to justify his own particular political obsession. Trump the kid killer. WTF[/quote] Yes, pot meets kettle.... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: 6 Post by raydawg on 12/06/19 at 17:45:07 OR....... This number means nothing unless we have other studies to compare it with, like..... How many kids died on the street to homelessness in BIG Liberal cities? To drug use? To gangs? How many of these kids had a illness that had contributed to their death? How many people died in prisons around the USA? How many died because of the Clinton's? How many died while Obama was president....in US embassies? ETC, so on, and so forth, and, yada, yada, yada..... While all our energies are directed at getting Trump....instead of addressing these issues? |
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