|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Fallout /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1574426455 Message started by WebsterMark on 11/22/19 at 04:40:55 |
|
Title: Fallout Post by WebsterMark on 11/22/19 at 04:40:55 For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...... applies only to physics. In the world of politics, one action can have a disproportionate reaction. At the end of the day, Ukraine received aid, more than in the past. No supply shipments were missed (no one died), no public announcement about an investigation was made and there's an election 11 mo ths from now where citizens, not partisan politicians, get to decide. That's kinda tough to argue against. I don't really know if the House will vote to impeach. They have to draw up articles first and then present to Congress. Here's where the actin reaction thing comes into play. The Senate trial is more of an actual trial, not a banana republic charade like we've seen with Shifty. Linsey Graham has already sent a request for all communications between Biden and John Kerry and their involvement with Ukraine. All of a sudden, the carpet will start to be pulled back an awful lot of dirt will see the light of day that a lot of people with favors to grant don't want becoming visible. Plus again, all these Democratic Senators running for President will have to sit there and shut up all day. You know Mitch is gonna milk this trial for as long as he can...... Joe "then vote for Trump" Biden will self destruct out there by himself and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and maybe that congresswoman from Hawaii whose name I can't remember, you know, the cute one, will take advantage and all of a sudden, their name recognition skyrockets while Warren, Sanders, Harris and Spartacus sit there with sour looks on their face. And at the end of the longest trial Mitch can turn it into where Biden's name gets dragged through the mud along woth Kerry, Hilary and even Hopey-Change, Trump will be acquitted and those dour looking Senators will have to scramble to recover and talk about the failed trial over and over again. And for what? At worst, an off the cuff comment Trump made about the 2016 election, which nothing came out of it (no aid stopped, no investigation) that a bunch of swamp inhabitants tried to turn into an event that's only happened twice in the history of the nation? |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/22/19 at 05:34:35 350700111607102F031009620 wrote:
Only for an idiot. Or a liar- a guy seeking the fall of our Republic. That was your declared goal, Mark- civil war, the breaking of the Union. You're a self declared traitor to our nation. A guy like you doesn't care about damage to our country- you want to see it destroyed. At the end of the day, Ukraine received aid, more than in the past. No supply shipments were missed (no one died), no public announcement about an investigation was made... ...because the whistler spoke out, foiling the plan. It doesn't matter the crime wasn't seen to completion; we had testimony this week that Ukrainian President Zelensky was preparing to make the extorted announcement at that time. Had you been paying attention- or even moderately cared -you would have know that. You don't get off the hook just because your murder attempt was stopped by law enforcement. The President of the United States first contact with his counterpart in Ukraine was corrupt. The people of Ukraine have long suffered under corrupt leaders controlled by Russia; after finally braking out of that cage, Trump undermines those decades long efforts toward democratic values, rule of law, and accountable government with his extortion scheme, acting the part of a wanna-be Russian oligarch. ...and there's an election 11 mo ths from now where citizens, not partisan politicians, get to decide. Our Union coheres only through the extended trust and faith of the people. I know you don't give a fuqk about that, Mark- as you've said, your interests align with Putin on this point -but accountability is essential to a just and fare government that warrants such investment. The founders of our Union foresaw Trump- a guy seeking the support of foreign princes to win control of our sovereign people -and they made his acts a crime; moreover, they put in place the impeachment tool for removing a duly elected leader from office. See, the founders of our nation knew that removing a crook from office was important- that integrity of governance was important -and provided a means of address. Our nation's founders anticipated people like you, Mark- though perhaps not the extent to which you've metastasized. Of course, they never intended for us to rely on them for everything- we have to stand up and fight for the country we want. There are always going to be small men attempting to tear down what they could never build; it's incumbent on patriots to recognize those traitors to the Union whenever they step on stage. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 08:04:18 If someone walks into a bank and says they have a gun in their pocket and demands that the teller hand over the money in their drawer - even if there is no theft after that, it's still a crime. Did trump say "I want quid pro quo"? Probably not. Was that his (and his administration's) intent? 100% "At the end of the day, Ukraine received aid, more than in the past. No supply shipments were missed (no one died), no public announcement about an investigation was made " - might be a true statement, but context is key. When was the aid received? (9/11/19) Why? Obvious - the administration was caught red-handed. This really is simple math. 2 + 2 = 4. It always has and it always will. trump is a well known corrupt businessman. His administration is no different. Now, everyone can see it for themselves. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/22/19 at 08:55:50 2E303F3E332E35285A0 wrote:
We would be so lucky that was the extent of our problem. Trouble is, folks like Mark are making clear who they are; they feel safe coming out to cheer for the collapse of our Union. We can all 'see it for ourselves'- but I fear they may amount to inoperable cancer. Even as they turn to dust, these Archie Bunkers will depend on the next generation for life support while attempting to take our country with them to the grave. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by raydawg on 11/22/19 at 09:05:32 Mark...... I won't pretend I speak for everyone, as some others claim, I can only offer you my perspective, in response to you. Setting aside all that has happened with allegations, assertions, etc, leveled at Trump from pretty much, day one. Setting aside all the devious, disingenuous, deceit, executed by the DNC, liberal media, Clinton....in the campaign run up to the 2016 election.... (which impacted more against others, than it did him, I believe) Setting aside all the bitterness, ugliness, etc......visited on folks, who support him. With all that said, I believe, strongly, that the office of the president, has to rise above the fray and lead by setting the tone, and example, of civility, as the leader of the WHOLE nation..... Yes, it has been a long time since we've seen any good examples of it, however, Trump has taken it to a new level of discourse, I feel. As many state, let the people decide, the outcome, with their votes, off ALL the elected officials, that is indeed the best method, and surest, way for our voices to be heard..... WE HAVE THE POWER, and with all the assaults leveled against it, it has never, and will never, be usurped, as long as free speech is part of who we claim to be, as a nation. I feel Trump, in his duty, as the leader of our nation, errored in his mentioning of Biden, in his concerns, and rightly so, about corruption in Ukraine....... He added his own personal "narrative" to this request, and yes, to me, it seems a "directive" intended for the new leader of the country.... And for this, as I don't think it was his sole motivation, and concern, and does not rise to a level of impeachment, no....but nevertheless, a very poor execution of his duties, and therefor, should be censored..... For such remarks. Maybe if we all agree to this, we can all learn from this..... And be better for it? We're a nation, of many beliefs, cultures, likes, and dislikes, those should not separate us, from one another, no, but give us opportunity to learn, grow, and be wiser to things we did not know, or understand prior to dialogue and exchange, with each other..... What is the other option.....? Separation, and divide.....? How can we stand against anything, if we choose that? This country truly is a melting pot, always has been, and explains why it has been so successful like none other. Seems more are getting into that pot, and its forcing upon many, a crowded feeling, making some uncomfortable.... I say, we don't need to restrict new folk (ideas, beliefs, etc) into that pot, no...... But get a BIGGER POT! ;D Its up to everyone to look at themselves..... Ya wanna keep pointing fingers, blaming, adding insults and dissension....?? Then don't expect the merry go round to travel down a new path, to nirvana..... :-[ |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by WebsterMark on 11/22/19 at 09:19:52 With all that said, I believe, strongly, that the office of the president, has to rise above the fray and lead by setting the tone, and example, of civility, as the leader of the WHOLE nation..... Ray, I agree 100%. But I go back to something someone said about Trump and a take off on the Dark Knight Batman movie. Trump is not the hero this great nation deserves, but he's the one we need. I would add to that ..."at this time." Donald Trump is an awful example of a President but at the time, he was the only one who was going to stop Hilary which I considered to be of paramount importance. Now we're up against socialist and all Trump's shortfalls are again better than the alternative. In 2024, let's see where we are then. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/22/19 at 09:33:55 293A223F3A2C3C5B0 wrote:
Trump's obviously not that guy- he's the most divisive leader of our nation in my lifetime. He's petty. He's egotistical. Selfish. A narcissist. None, at this juncture, can sensically expect Trump to do anything but divide our Union. We're a nation, of many beliefs, cultures, likes, and dislikes, those should not separate us, from one another, no, but give us opportunity to learn, grow, and be wiser to things we did not know, or understand prior to dialogue and exchange, with each other..... Exactly. Unfortunately, Trump sees opportunity in division- it's how weak power can steer a larger force. What is the other option.....? Separation, and divide.....? How can we stand against anything, if we choose that? How can we stand against anything if we accept Trump's message of division? There will always be bigots on the fringe; here, they have been used to wedge open a wound. Confronting our circumstance is painful- but the consequence of not doing so is further damage to our Republic. This country truly is a melting pot, always has been, and explains why it has been so successful like none other. Always? Not really. We mythologize this a bit much; the melting pot metaphor has become more true now than ever before, transiting from hate and rape to consent and love. To be celebrated, no doubt- but ours is a history of leveraging one interest against another. A history of division. Surely it is time for that to end- but it can't with this President. Trump is antithetical to healing, unity. I say, we don't need to restrict new folk (ideas, beliefs, etc) into that pot, no...... But get a BIGGER POT! Preach it, brother! Can I get an AMEN? |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/22/19 at 09:40:47 122027363120370824372E450 wrote:
Mark is so broken he can't discern between the fantasy of a comic book hero with a moral code and Trump. Orange makeup and all, Mark has elected the Joker. He never wanted a Batman to restore order- he wanted a villain to burn the Republic down. That's the problem with telling people what you really want, Mark- it makes lying ever so less effective. You and the President have that in common just now. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by pg on 11/22/19 at 11:25:28 Meanwhile the sham impeachment inquiry is discussing childhood pigtails. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87taMrqV7YY[/media] Best regards, |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/22/19 at 11:38:00 Your focus is petty. With all of Hill's contribution, this is your take away. It seem obvious you didn't actually watch the testimony you've labeled a "sham"- reminiscent of those who burn books they never read. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by pg on 11/22/19 at 11:45:22 212D3A252B232B39224C0 wrote:
And that is coming from someone who in their previous post is talking about orange make-up and the Joker.... Best regards, |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/22/19 at 12:09:38 In other words, no, you didn't actually watch the hearing- your opinion based instead on prejudice and a diet of clips parsed of substance. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by pg on 11/22/19 at 12:46:30 5F53445B555D55475C320 wrote:
'In other words', it would behoove you to wait until I post a statement before you cast judgement. Best regards, |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/22/19 at 13:12:11 5740464A4555270 wrote:
I judge you from what you've presented. How many hours of these most recent open hearings have you watched, then? Not clips, not recaps- just the hearings. Regale us. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by pg on 11/22/19 at 13:28:50 2A26312E2028203229470 wrote:
I judge you from what you've presented. How many hours of these most recent open hearings have you watched, then? Not clips, not recaps- just the hearings. Regale us. [/quote] Nice effort; however, that is a ssttttrrrrrrretcchhhh... Best regards, |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/22/19 at 13:33:00 First protesting that you are being judged unduly, then refuse to put up. You've shown your umbrage to be false. What a cowardly deflection. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by pg on 11/22/19 at 13:51:56 24283F202E262E3C27490 wrote:
You are the one who said 'in other words'.... Best regards, |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by raydawg on 11/22/19 at 13:53:01 Donald Trump is an awful example of a President but at the time, he was the only one who was going to stop Hilary which I considered to be of paramount importance. Not sure if I can endorse that statement..... Bernie was riding a good wave of support, not to mention others in the republican field, had experience. Isn't that what concerned Hillary, to the point where she got help to promote a Trump candidacy.....? Folks here seem to forget context, looking back on the history of America, and using today's understandings, to judge them. Its not only disingenuous and out of context, its not fair, either.... Therefor to keep utilizing such tactics, and techniques, will never bring about resolution.... It's akin to Trump counter punching, and then calling him the divisive one. We don't know how Bernie might have governed, once in office. I recall liking some of the things he was once campaigning on, but now, the tempo of those concerns have greatly shifted away from focusing on a better distribution, to outright confiscation, of rights, it seems....??? Anyway....I guess I am saying we need to get away from thinking the lessor of two evil ( which I am guilty ) to finding folks who we can work with on those things we DO AGREE UPON, and build from there....??? We are going nowhere, at this rate. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 14:03:48 10031B06031505620 wrote:
Yet, you already stated that you are voting for trump. So..... |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by verslagen1 on 11/22/19 at 14:51:46 5E404F4E435E45582A0 wrote:
Sounds like it was a response to a Troll rather than a commitment. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/22/19 at 14:56:29 213225243B3630323966570 wrote:
Voting for Trump is, by definition, 'responding to a Troll'- an act involving a measure more sacrifice than commitment. The nature of that sacrifice is on display in this very thread. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by raydawg on 11/22/19 at 15:05:36 42514647585553515A05340 wrote:
Sounds like it was a response to a Troll rather than a commitment.[/quote] Thanks Versy..... It would be nice if we had some moderators who'd nixed these aberrations of civility ;) Or put another way...... I love my pups so much, I am willing to put up with their fleas, and poop ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 15:17:49 6D7E667B7E68781F0 wrote:
Sounds like it was a response to a Troll rather than a commitment.[/quote] Thanks Versy..... It would be nice if we had some moderators who'd nixed these aberrations of civility ;) Or put another way...... I love my pups so much, I am willing to put up with their fleas, and poop ;D ;D [/quote] Well ray, did you or did you not say you're voting for trump? Was that a joke? |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by raydawg on 11/22/19 at 15:41:23 Mercy....I guess I better give you some sort of reply before you go further into obsession. My guy was Howard Schultz, who is no longer in, because of his back/health. I have stated many times, that I would not enjoy voting for Trump, nor did I before. When it comes time to vote, will I......it remains to be seen. You seem to believe you know all the answers, and you know the truth.... I can't say I hold such a luxury. Web stated in another post, he voted for Trump because, in a sense, a needed evil to combat evil....lots of interesting revelations, have been exposed, since his election, folks can deny it all they want, need to, however, it doesn't change the facts to what we are seeing transpire. Lots of time left still for me to gather information, not reading campaign fodder, relying on pundits, but living life, in real life, not on a message board..... How I might vote today, is as useless as tits on a man you liked that referencing I believe last time, enjoy a second helping ;D I am about as much as a swing voter, you can get, neither subscribing to any party dogma, or doctrine..... On the contrary, tho maybe too risky, not sure, but like years ago, with a presidential election, I believe the election was settled by who got the most votes, and who got the second most votes ( only casting one vote per person) became the VEEP. I think that has merit, and would put the office back into the hands of the people, instead of a party.... You can claim otherwise, chase me down, or do whatever it is you need, to do....it makes no difference, one way or the other. Hope that helped, if not, sorry, that is the only reply you will get from me.... |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 15:54:02 21322A37322434530 wrote:
So, you won't answer the question? Typical I guess. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by WebsterMark on 11/23/19 at 05:37:09 Web stated in another post, he voted for Trump because, in a sense, a needed evil to combat evil....lots of interesting revelations, have been exposed, since his election, folks can deny it all they want, need to, however, it doesn't change the facts to what we are seeing transpire. Let me clarify something. Donald Trump is not evil. Despite the nonsense posted on here and elsewhere. Hilary Clinton is not evil. Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders etc.. are not evil. When we all sit down our partisan glasses and take our team jerseys off, that's an unarguable fact. None of these people are evil. So what are we left with? All we have is a choice between two perhaps three people. The data available to us on those people, none of us have any direct data, has been filtered countless times by those who have their own opinions. All we can do is make the choice that we feel moves the ball a little further down the field. My opinion in 2016 was Trump would accomplish that better than Hilary and the results thus far prove that did in fact happen.Given the ideas of the Democrats running for 2020, I see no reason to change. For me Ray, my first dividing line is abortion. Between two candidates, I divide them by the one who most likey would restrict abortions and the one who would most likey to lessen restrictions. After that, its the one more likely to protect the nation. After that, its the one more likely to offer more opportunities for economic growth. Show me a Democrat that checks off those boxes and they're in the mix. the In my view, Trump's done nothing that leads me to believe he's a traitor to the nation so he gets another term. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Serowbot on 11/23/19 at 07:00:00 Can somebody explain what specifically makes Hillary so evil?... I know she had a private server,... but Trump is doing much worse. I know four people died in Benghazi... Anything else?... I think her conspiracy with the devil is a delusion... |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/23/19 at 07:24:43 675552434455427D51425B300 wrote:
We know Trump swindled students. We know he stole from a charity for veterans. We know he cheated on his pregnant wife and committed campaign finance violations in attempt to cover it up. We know he schemed to violate our Constitution and corrupt an ally state. We know that he stood before the world and denounced our own intelligence agents' reports in favor of the murderer Putin. We know that when Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi was hacked to pieces by agents of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, Trump sided with the prince and denounced our own intelligence. Your metric of good and evil is broken, Mark. This is an easy distinction for folks who aren't sociopaths. After that, its the one more likely to protect the nation. Liar. You've already told us you you voted for Trump hoping to foment a war, break the Union. In my view- I wonder- do you type by touch? -or do you remove the blindfold to see the keys? |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Serowbot on 11/23/19 at 07:56:48 2925322D232B23312A440 wrote:
Best President ever!... ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by raydawg on 11/23/19 at 08:57:30 576562737465724D61726B000 wrote:
Thanks Mark....I apologize for my over the top choice of words.... In a way, these kinds of narratives, lead only to further separation...my bad. :-[ |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by pg on 11/23/19 at 10:35:51 222E39262820283A214F0 wrote:
Does that also go for the 63M people who voted from Trump and who will likely vote for him again? Best regards, |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/23/19 at 10:52:59 382F29252A3A480 wrote:
Your presumption is specious; there are plenty of good people who voted for Trump, have witnessed his depravity, and will not do so again. You get to decide what sort you are, “pg”. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/23/19 at 13:46:42 Trump has my vote... And a buncha life long democrats who are now employed will vote for him. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by T And T Garage on 11/25/19 at 05:44:41 312E282F32350434043C2E22695B0 wrote:
LOL - that's wishful thinking. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/25/19 at 05:49:50 796768696479627F0D0 wrote:
An unearned complement; take your victories where you can, Justin. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by pg on 11/25/19 at 10:54:36 272B3C232D252D3F244A0 wrote:
Your presumption is specious; there are plenty of good people who voted for Trump, have witnessed his depravity, and will not do so again. You get to decide what sort you are, “pg”. [/quote] Then why is the left so concerned about impeaching him if he has no chance of being re-elected? Best regards, |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by T And T Garage on 11/25/19 at 11:08:30 687F79757A6A180 wrote:
Well, jeffrey dahmer never ate any of my family - but I'm glad they locked him up.... It's about the law. He broke it, he pays for it. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/25/19 at 11:12:38 3720262A2535470 wrote:
I wouldn't ascribe it just to "the left"- there are patriots of all association that judge Trump unfit for office, doing long term damage to our Nation that demands confrontation now. Sure, there is a caucus within the GOP whom are ethically debased- but all those to the right side of the aisle? No. Your question is as absurd as asking 'why don't you wait until after the next election to remove the child molester from the preschool?' Your moral compass is broken. I've gone to some length to illustrate your dysfunction, but no one can make you confront that mess- it's up to you to decide to be a better man. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by pg on 11/25/19 at 14:49:11 34382F303E363E2C37590 wrote:
All you have done is befoul someone who does not share your beliefs. You have not made any effort to provide a rational argument supporting a position, just personnel attacks.... Best regards |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/26/19 at 07:11:52 796E68646B7B090 wrote:
You have befouled yourself. Your questions are, on whole, deflection- rarely-if-ever do you voice any consideration- let alone acknowledgment -of the substantive address to your questionable questions. You do not ask in good faith; regardless of values or perspective, any honest participant in our political moment could cite compelling reason for removing Trump from office now. The questions themselves are not more than a declaration that you will not be reasoned with, that you will not apply your intellect with honesty. In these exchanges, you act the part of the Republican Committee members: playing at defense, questions are not contrived to discover truth. How can these exchanges not become about character when these failures predicate your contribution? Of course I don't share many of your beliefs. Of course that's a point of conflict- too much of those beliefs depend on pretending not to know what we know. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by pg on 11/26/19 at 15:53:59 7E72657A747C74667D130 wrote:
You have befouled yourself. Your questions are, on whole, deflection- rarely-if-ever do you voice any consideration- let alone acknowledgment -of the substantive address to your questionable questions. [/quote] LOL... You just can't provide a rationale for any position whatsoever, other than your adversary is a deplorable..... 'questionable questions' ;D Best regards, |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by Mavigogun on 11/26/19 at 18:02:05 455254585747350 wrote:
My observations aren't rationalizations... but, sure, dude- all I've got is all the deplorable, damaging-to-the-Union, crimes and stuff. If you don't care about any of that- and you've been given ample opportunity to do so say so -than no, there's no standard low enough for your criteria. |
|
Title: Re: Fallout Post by pg on 11/28/19 at 13:47:19 323E29363830382A315F0 wrote:
My observations aren't rationalizations... but, sure, dude- all I've got is all the deplorable, damaging-to-the-Union, crimes and stuff. If you don't care about any of that- and you've been given ample opportunity to do so say so -than no, there's no standard low enough for your criteria. [/quote] Just don't have it in you do you. I mean you really just can't post an opine without an insult.... Best regards, |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |