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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Let's try this..... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1574358018 Message started by raydawg on 11/21/19 at 09:40:18 |
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Title: Let's try this..... Post by raydawg on 11/21/19 at 09:40:18 Since we all think we are so friggin smart, let's see if we can come up with any collective ideas, or solutions, to our homeless problems in the states. I mean think about this, what does it say about us, as a nation, when folks see this epidemic, in our largest cities? Anybody want to start? Not blame, mind you, that won't fix it, lets move forward..... Ideas? |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by T And T Garage on 11/21/19 at 09:58:27 25362E33362030570 wrote:
Bernie Sanders has several plans in his platform. As does Warren. http://berniesanders.com/issues/housing-all/ http://elizabethwarren.com/plans/safe-affordable-housing They are socialist in nature and you yourself have dismissed all socialist ideals. Why are you asking this when you refuse any answers? |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by raydawg on 11/21/19 at 12:11:14 Didn't know they subscribe to this site......... :-? |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by Mavigogun on 11/21/19 at 12:26:42 You were challenged, Ray- and provoked. Which would show himself: the man, or the Dawg? I don't know if it is a choice. I'm a sucker for hope. And change. See, I never expected those things to be delivered to me. Maybe, if I can set aside ego, a hand can be extended, we can make this a better place. If that's what you want- a good faith effort -you'll have to follow through with commitment. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by T And T Garage on 11/21/19 at 12:42:56 26352D30352333540 wrote:
Well ray, I don't think anyone, short of Eegore, would have any real suggestions on how best to combat the homeless problem in this country without citing a public figure (politician) or some other study they might find on the internet. It's not a cut & dried issue. It's immensely complex. You raised the questions - put up your view on it...... |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by Serowbot on 11/21/19 at 13:14:49 Some of Trump's resorts only have 30% occupancy... Seems like such a waste... :-? |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by raydawg on 11/21/19 at 14:45:35 Thanks guys..... |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by thumperclone on 11/21/19 at 15:44:38 5C4F574A4F59492E0 wrote:
how deep do you want to go personally ray?? are you REALLY serious?? examples you can do 1]sell your boat and camper and truck and donate the proceeds to your local homeless shelter 2]donate 20% of your pension, stock profits get my point? BTW any homeless in your tribe?? if so what help are they receiving? are you helping? |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by raydawg on 11/21/19 at 17:09:30 Ok...more money is the answer. Such a simple fix. Get someone else to do it. Check. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by thumperclone on 11/21/19 at 17:41:24 6C7F677A7F69791E0 wrote:
get YOU to do something YOU brought it up...... |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by pg on 11/21/19 at 18:18:39 786669686578637E0C0 wrote:
As much as this pains me to say, I agree with T&T. This is an extremely complex issue with no clear cut answers. Some of those people are down on their luck, some have substance problems, some simply can't function in society. I've seen two people go down that spiral and it is painful to view. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by raydawg on 11/21/19 at 19:21:24 3F282E222D3D4F0 wrote:
As much as this pains me to say, I agree with T&T. This is an extremely complex issue with no clear cut answers. Some of those people are down on their luck, some have substance problems, some simply can't function in society. I've seen two people go down that spiral and it is painful to view. Best regards,[/quote] OK...it was just a attempt to bring dialogue, but it appears that isn't possible. You could have shared what transpired with the ones you referenced, what was tried, what might have helped, etc... I use to go down once a month, to Seattle, me and some buddies, taking food, clothing, etc, listening to them, sharing, offering hope, and help, if they wanted it..... Most admitted they had issues with booze, and bad choices. I shared some of the stories before, here. That was about 10 years ago, before the drugs made it very unsafe to venture into these areas at night.... It was before they were just everywhere, you had to go back into some dark areas, away from the lights, etc, to find them. Never mind..... You guys carry on, it seems to fill a need, in you all. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 07:50:04 43504855504656310 wrote:
As much as this pains me to say, I agree with T&T. This is an extremely complex issue with no clear cut answers. Some of those people are down on their luck, some have substance problems, some simply can't function in society. I've seen two people go down that spiral and it is painful to view. Best regards,[/quote] OK...it was just a attempt to bring dialogue, but it appears that isn't possible. You could have shared what transpired with the ones you referenced, what was tried, what might have helped, etc... I use to go down once a month, to Seattle, me and some buddies, taking food, clothing, etc, listening to them, sharing, offering hope, and help, if they wanted it..... Most admitted they had issues with booze, and bad choices. I shared some of the stories before, here. That was about 10 years ago, before the drugs made it very unsafe to venture into these areas at night.... It was before they were just everywhere, you had to go back into some dark areas, away from the lights, etc, to find them. Never mind..... You guys carry on, it seems to fill a need, in you all. [/quote] Instead of anecdotes, start the dialog yourself, ray. You put out a seemingly honest post, then change your mind and pout. Man up and put forth an honest thought... |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by Eegore on 11/22/19 at 13:05:04 I don't think there is a solution to "homelessness in the US". It can be reduced, and I feel the best solution is mitigation of the factors that precede homelessness. Unfortunately some of these factors are completely in the control of the person who will become homeless so no manner of preparation or available resource will prevent it. To have a decent discussion about this we would first need to define what we think homelessness is. To me, it is someone without a stable, consistent living environment that allows one to be productive, clean, and healthy within the constrains of their genetic makeup and the environment if they choose to be. This does not mean immobile housing, one can have a "home" in a vehicle as long as it meets the parameters above. One can have a "home" in a college dorm, a series of hotels, or a boat if one chooses to do so. Note: This post is an opinion in response to what I consider pertinent and valuable discussion material. While they are words on a screen I contribute in an attempt to engage in discussion instead of contributing by slinging insults at other members. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 13:12:10 0D2D2F273A2D480 wrote:
Once again Eegore, you've nailed the logic. I think it's safe to say - you don't (or shouldn't) need a disclaimer on your posts. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by raydawg on 11/22/19 at 14:58:44 Cool.....lets start there then, let's define homelessness, that is a great idea. Fact is, that might even shed some light into what the problem even is. To me, I would put a healthy bulk of its meaning somewhere around the parameter of: A living condition that is unhealthy for a person, lacking the basic sanitary, health, and safeguards, for the general good welfare of the public. It exposes risk, beyond the immediate physical limitations, of such a lifestyle. I will start there......any questions, or would anybody else like to chime in? PS: Thanks Eegore, I hope with your suggestion of clarification, we might rise above misunderstandings, and have a interesting exchange on the subject, which, I think we can all agree, has reached a level that should not be ignored, accepted, minimized, or used as a political football. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 15:49:56 Although I highly doubt you're sincere in this post, defining the parameters of homelessness is indeed a necessary first step. With that being said, many have worked at defining it much more in depth than (probably) anyone on on here. The definition only goes so far. There's also a variety of types of homelessness (from a quick search on the internet): Situational or transitional/short-term homelessness is defined as a person forced into homelessness due to a life event (loss of a job, disaster, losing a family member who is the breadwinner, domestic violence). Episodic or cyclical homelessness occurs when a person falls in and out of being homeless, many times due to mental illness or addiction. Chronic/long term homelessness is the term used for a person who is homeless for long periods of time usually because they don’t have the resources (family, friends, etc.) to change their living situation. These too are often people experiencing ongoing mental health or addiction issues. http://www.bincfoundation.org/what-is-homelessness/ But these definitions and categories only scratch the surface. The question is what to do about it, right? One thing that could be done right off the bat is creating more affordable housing. If someone loses their home due to a job loss, natural disaster, illness or whatever - and have no family to take them in, the only thing they'd have to turn to is public housing. And, sadly, most choose the streets over that because they're either overcrowded, in a terrible part of town or just not available in time. I've seen this firsthand in Chicago. People choose to live on the street over going to shelters because of overcrowding and the terrible conditions in many of them. Those that are well maintained are full 99% of the time. We desperately need more affordable housing in this city - and all over the country. Giving lip service serves no one. Actually building the buildings needs to happen. Obviously buildings are only one part of a much larger puzzle. Along with these buildings, you'd need to have better means testing. You'd have to control rents. You'd have to protect the tenants as well as the landlords. Like it or not, this is a government issue and would have to be handled by them. Affordable/public housing. Not an easy task - but nothing worthwhile ever is. (old cliche, but true) |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by raydawg on 11/22/19 at 16:23:45 My sincere hope was to keep it a exchange between us, sharing our thoughts, etc.... Not directing it to other websites or sources, with the hope we might find common ground, for a good cause, and maybe come to see its more fun to get along, than to go after each others throats. Sorry if you have a hard time believing that, but that is on you, not me... To the topic. Yes, I agree the government has a role in this, for sure. However, it needs to be one that, "teaches a man to fish, instead of giving him a fish" Like, Habitat for Humanity, etc... I think many of these programs result in a dependency, which further exacerbates personal situations, and cause unseen peripheral issues, that often become more hurdles to overcome. Housing is cheap, in many places in the USA still. With job loss, maybe its wise to seek out places that take less money to live? Seattle and Los Angles are expensive, why are so many of these homeless there, if the problem is not of the drug, alcohol, mental illness, nature? Question, since dependency on substances ( as opposed to "hand-outs" ) Is a major factor in the plight of many homeless, are we going to agree its a mental/health issue, as opposed to a choice of life? |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 17:01:57 76657D60657363040 wrote:
Not all situations are the same. Some want to live on the streets and be "free". They panhandle and score what they can/when they can. That, to me, is a choice. Alternatively, some have mental disabilities that keep them on the street and wind up on drugs through little fault of their own - usually by others that "take care of them". There's no easy answer. There's no cheap answer. Means testing is about the only thing that could be done. Case by case. Tons of bureaucracy. Maybe taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture would help. Maybe if our public figures would stop vilifying the homeless. Stop portraying the poor as "less than" a "normal person". If we as a country could look at the person living on the street as a real person - then we'd start to get there. The whole "welfare queen" was made up, but it stuck. It's much easier to demonize the poor and homeless than to actually understand their situation or help them. In the '30s, poverty was the enemy, not the poor. The long and the short of it is this - every situation is different. We can't sit here and say "all homeless are lazy or unstable or on drugs" or whatever. A few articles I've read on the subject look at a time frame of anywhere from 20 to 50 years to get people out the depths of poverty. Even then, homelessness will never really be "solved". Not what some of us want to hear, but it's sadly the truth. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by Eegore on 11/22/19 at 19:37:13 I think its fair to go with the three commonly accepted homeless types. Short term, Cyclical, and Long-term. I will try to keep this short: There are many and common solutions to Short Term homelessness. Government and private aid, family support, economic support (jobs). This can be improved upon but I feel the real issue is a lack of proper education at the middle and high-school levels. Porn is the primary s ex-education component, credit card and cash-advance companies the primary finance educators, YouTube the primary social skills educator. Creating programs that teach what red flags are in relationships (like needing to see/control one's phone or friend types) at the middle-school level will most likely reduce domestic violence. Teach boys that their dad hitting their mom does not mean they can hit their girlfriends. Teaching kids that p orn is not real life se x but instead paid actors, no different than Robert Downey Jr. playing Iron Man in Avengers will reduce s exual assault, and domestic violence. That girl screaming in the video is not the norm, and not a child, just because your girlfriend doesn't moan like a p ornstar doesn't mean you need to choke her. Understanding that living in a debt cycle, even if you have all the money you want, is not ok because it's other people's money you are borrowing, then you give them your actual money for the privilege. Church, Government, Red Cross etc. are all there to help pick up the people that either didn't have the education, or were in circumstances that were completely beyond their control. They are the most available, and most efficient, in my eyes, methods to address Short Term homelessness as it happens. This approach however will effect the other two types of homelessness, but the solutions lie along the entire spectrum and not at any one stage in my opinion. I'd add middle and high school social programs to suggestions like affordable housing, or donating goods to those in need. I would also make it mandatory to perform community service to graduate high-school, or get a GED, or be released from a juvenile detention program. Note: This post is an opinion in response to what I consider pertinent and valuable discussion material. While they are words on a screen I contribute in an attempt to engage in discussion instead of contributing by slinging insults at other members. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by raydawg on 11/22/19 at 20:49:35 WOW Eegore, You have enlightened me in a way I never thought about before..... I guess I am "outside the loop" of what is transpiring, according to you, in the current enviroment re: education/schooling. My wife was very pro active, and engaged, during this stage of our children's life.... Me, well, I had my own issues, as I have shared before, so all the credit goes to her. If I may paraphrase...... You are saying lots of the negative influences, in our culture, which might come under the banner of free expression/art, marketing, etc.... thus escaping the scrutiny, or responsibilities of the outcome(s), of its "message and influence," is a major component, of homelessness.....??? Or more to a general sense of morality breakdown, in our society, and homelessness is just a symptom of that? Not sure if this "fits" in this exchange, but I have often stopped fellow believers in "blaming" the decay of society, on the acceptance, and promotion, of a sinful culture mentality, etc..... Instead I try and direct the possibility, back to OUR responsibility, of witnessing (as believers) to what scripture teaches us, and its US, who fail, because we don't "practice what we preach" but get caught up in the same game of blame, and causation, etc.... I don't come at them with judgement, no, as I am guilty of that very action, and that is why I can see how it influences, and impacts, others in a way that is just the opposite of my/our, intentions..... I'll stop here, before I ramble on too much more, and await you extending you remarks....THANKS. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by Eegore on 11/23/19 at 07:21:46 "You are saying lots of the negative influences, in our culture, which might come under the banner of free expression/art, marketing, etc.... thus escaping the scrutiny, or responsibilities of the outcome(s), of its "message and influence," is a major component, of homelessness.....???" You could say it like that. I am saying that I, along with funding programs to combat the already homeless, would like to combat the ways people get to that point to begin with. Middle school is a good place to start. "Or more to a general sense of morality breakdown, in our society, and homelessness is just a symptom of that?" I don't believe there is a "morality breakdown", I just think they are kids that have certain outcomes based off the environment they are exposed to, due to how the chemical structures in their brains work at that time in their lives. I don't know what religion plays into this as I would expect fewer homeless in regions of higher religious study among youth if it were effective specifically to the homeless, but I am not sure how one accurately assesses that. But if religion helps you, or anyone positively impact youth then have at it. I for one have never heard of a Christian Sex Ed class addressing the impacts of p orn, or a Muslim accounting class teaching how credit card interest works etc. This may be fine as they address more of an ethics standpoint, which especially for children tends to be less clear than math or science. Note: This post is an opinion in response to what I consider pertinent and valuable discussion material. While they are words on a screen I contribute in an attempt to engage in discussion instead of contributing by slinging insults at other members. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by raydawg on 11/23/19 at 08:51:30 Thanks....so much to consider, digest the possibilities, then try and find a solution. I think you are absolutely right in thinking we need to be proactive, early, much in the same manner we started to attack tobacco. If we could put as much energy into it as we do GW, one might wonder just how much we might accomplish toward thwarting kids from taking that first step, that leads them down this sad path.... Re: Christian Sex Ed class addressing the impacts of p orn Oh, its out there, and its a continuation in study. I have pushed for studies in my own church, even. A very good program that is offered through the Christian community is, Every Man's Battle if you care to look it up. Regarding your first reply, you mentioned having to meet certain requirements, expectations, as part of your fix..... Are you saying we need to incorporate accountability into combating these problems? |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by pg on 11/23/19 at 10:33:45 Or we can give them free heroin like our liberal friends to the north. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by Eegore on 11/23/19 at 16:35:59 "Or we can give them free heroin like our liberal friends to the north." I believe its only free because of the structure of healthcare. For some this has stopped cyclical homelessness and drug abuse. It's not readily known what percentage of addicts will respond to controlled injections of diacetylmorphine, however we do know that of those people methadone does not work. Since it is controlled the data will be considerably more reliable than armchair analysts and law enforcement. What we do know is that more incarceration wasn't a cure since the 1980's, but any day now maybe the same tactic will suddenly start being a solution. I will gamble on trying something different over trying a tactic that's failed for 30 years. Note: This post is an opinion in response to what I consider pertinent and valuable discussion material. While they are words on a screen I contribute in an attempt to engage in discussion instead of contributing by slinging insults at other members. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by Eegore on 11/23/19 at 16:39:03 I forgot I intended to address this: "I think it's safe to say - you don't (or shouldn't) need a disclaimer on your posts." I'd like to agree but when the same statement is brought up multiple times out of context I like to toss in a "disclaimer" so I don't have to keep explaining what context is, and how a statement can apply to only one discussion and not all discussions. I did the same thing when it was claimed multiple times I do not post opinions without data, which I do all the time. It's just easier this way. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by T And T Garage on 11/25/19 at 05:49:37 5F7F7D75687F1A0 wrote:
Well, just my opinion - thanks for your posts. |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by Serowbot on 11/27/19 at 10:01:48 5543544951444952260 wrote:
...and you thought I was kidding... :-? Motels across the United States are housing the homeless https://www.yahoo.com/news/motels-across-united-states-housing-110026843.html |
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Title: Re: Let's try this..... Post by raydawg on 11/27/19 at 13:10:39 Great idea.....and dress them in new clothes with the MAGA logo ;D ;D ;D |
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