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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Alive And Well /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1574106791 Message started by T And T Garage on 11/18/19 at 11:53:11 |
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Title: Alive And Well Post by T And T Garage on 11/18/19 at 11:53:11 Racism in Indiana, that is.... Indiana Cop Fired After Stopping Black Patrons For Looking 'Suspicious' A police officer in suburban Indianapolis has been fired after video of his confrontation with two Black customers at a department store went viral. Lawrence Township Deputy Constable Daryl Jones approached cousins Aaron Blackwell and Durell Cunningham as they were driving out of the parking lot of a Nordstrom Rack store, as seen in a clip posted to YouTube by Blackwell last week. Chief Constable Terry Burns fired Jones immediately after viewing the footage, according to NBC affiliate WTHR. “He was terminated last night when the video was brought to my attention. I did see the video and made the decision immediately and that pretty speaks of my reaction,” Burns said, according to local station RTV6. The two men began filming the Nov. 12 incident as their vehicle approached Jones, who they said watched them make their purchases inside the store and then followed them outside. In the video, Jones approaches the car, and demands to see the driver’s license. When the men questioned why they were being asked for ID, Jones replied: “Because I told you to.” As the exchange became heated, the men insisted that Jones call his supervisor, while he repeatedly demanded to see their ID. “I got my rights to do anything I want to do, I’m a police officer,” he said. When asked what reason he had for asking, Jones said that they had been acting “suspicious.” After Jones called for backup, an Indianapolis police officer arrived and spoke with Jones near the car. After a short conversation, Jones told the men they were free to go, but refused to give his name and walked away. The Indianapolis officer told the men he didn’t know Jones, but that he saw no reason why they had been stopped, and that Jones was required to identify himself. Jones was reportedly off duty at the time and had been working security at Nordstrom Rack. http://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/indiana-officer-fired-suspicious-black-profiling-115229905.html Makes me wanna puke. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by T And T Garage on 11/25/19 at 09:58:06 More fuel from good old St. Louis..... A White Officer Shoots a Black Colleague, Deepening a Racial Divide ST. LOUIS — Milton Green was in the driveway of his home on St. Louis’ North Side one night when he suddenly found the barrel of a gun pointed in his direction. Right away, his police training kicked in: He pulled a badge from beneath his T-shirt and grabbed ahold of his service weapon, a 9 mm Beretta. “Police! Put the gun down!” Green shouted to the man with the gun, who had been fleeing police when the car he was riding in crashed in front of Green’s red brick bungalow. Green’s shift as a community liaison officer with the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department had ended hours earlier, and he was spending a quiet evening helping a friend work on his pickup truck. Then a sedan came screeching around the corner and ended up near his front yard. Another sedan pulled up in a hurry, and Green felt a brief sense of ease when men in police vests hopped out. They were fellow officers. Sort of. Green had been a police officer for more than a decade. And while he had bonded with colleagues across the department, he also had come to see distinct differences between black officers like himself and white officers like those involved in the pursuit that night. He had heard his share of racially insensitive remarks at work, but on that balmy evening in 2017, Green’s outlook on the differences between black and white officers would be damaged beyond repair. He heard a bang. He felt a sting in his right forearm. A white colleague had shot him. ——— Police departments confront the same racial tensions within their ranks as those in the communities they patrol. New recruits enter the police academy with different backgrounds and biases. Cliques develop within the force. And officers’ identical badges cannot shield the bad blood that sometimes exists among them. In few places is the racial divide more evident than St. Louis, a Mississippi River city of more than 300,000 residents. Delmar Boulevard runs like a Mason-Dixon Line separating the predominantly black North Side from the rest of the city, which has an almost even racial split of about 47% black residents and 43% white residents. The department’s racial tensions have bubbled to the surface this year after Green filed a lawsuit over the summer airing grievances about his treatment as a black officer. The department is also bracing for the federal criminal trial of two white officers accused of beating a black colleague and the outcome of an internal investigation into dozens of bigoted social media posts made by officers. Interviews with 18 current and former members of the city’s Police Department reveal a troubling picture of the racial dynamics on the force. Promotional disputes, incendiary remarks and outright harassment have left a trail of crippled trust and deflated morale, even as interracial friendships among officers are not uncommon. On the night Green was shot, he said, he did what he thought he had to: He sprang into action when he saw an armed man on the run. As he confronted the suspect, though, he heard someone order him to drop his weapon. Green tossed down his gun and belly-flopped onto the grass. A white detective recognized him a few moments later and warned the others that Green was a police officer, too. Green got up and ambled toward the detective who knew him, his gun pointed down in his right hand. He held out his badge so there would be no confusion. He had grown up on the city’s North Side and had been stopped plenty of times by police for no good reason before he had gotten his badge, he said. He took a few steps and then again heard a voice yell for him to drop his weapon, followed almost immediately, he said, by a gunshot. He clutched his right forearm and looked over at the white officer who had shot him. “Man, you done shot me,” Green recalled saying before blood started spouting from his arm. He became weak and dropped to his knees. Told of Green’s account, the officer who shot him, Christopher Tanner, said in a brief telephone interview, “That’s definitely not what happened.” Tanner, who has since left the department, declined to elaborate, citing a pending lawsuit that Green filed against him and the city. Tanner’s lawyer, James Towey, also declined to provide details. But he said that his client had been involved in a rolling gunbattle that evening. Things were chaotic. “It was a very highly charged environment and things happened as they did,” Towey said. “I don’t think race played one iota into this.” Green disagrees. “Me being black with a gun, you never gave me the chance,” Green said of Tanner. “You wouldn’t have walked up to a white guy and just shot him like that.” In St. Louis, few officers seem eager to talk openly about race for fear of upsetting the “blue bond.” When black officers feel offended by the comments or actions of their white colleagues, they often do not tell them. Similarly, some white officers say they grow resentful when black colleagues suggest there is racism within the department. Both black and white officers have said their race has been used against them when it comes to promotions. “There is still quite a bit of racial tension in the department,” acknowledged Col. John Hayden Jr., the police commissioner, who is black and a three-decade veteran of the department. “The tension continues because people are expecting more out of each other and they’re not tolerant, nor should they be, of things that are insensitive.” Opinions in the department have been split over an encounter that happened a few months after Green was shot: A black officer working undercover at a protest was beaten by white officers so badly that the injured officer told a commander, using an expletive, that they beat him “like Rodney King.” That officer, Luther Hall, had been monitoring a demonstration held in downtown St. Louis to protest the acquittal of a white officer who had fatally shot a black resident. While Hall’s face was bloodied, his partner, who was white, was not beaten, according to a lawsuit. Federal prosecutors indicted four white officers in connection with the beating and an attempt to cover it up. Two of the officers have pleaded guilty in the case; the other two are scheduled to go on trial in December. That was not the last of the alarming incidents. The department is investigating nearly two dozen officers for a series of incendiary Facebook posts, some of them racist and bigoted, uncovered by the Plain View Project. One of those officers was Michael J. Calcaterra. One meme he posted in 2013 said, “Britain should not bend over backwards to accommodate Islam.” Another one shows a white officer throwing a punch and says “I’m going to protect and serve,” adding an expletive. In July, after the posts had been made public, Leviya Graham, a black officer, filed a complaint with the department. She asked officials to transfer Calcaterra, who is white, out of her unit because she had concerns for her well-being and safety. Three months after filing her complaint, Graham accused Calcaterra of striking her with a police vehicle while they were on duty. Calcaterra did not respond to a phone message. “I can’t say whether it was intentional or not, but it warrants investigation,” said Sgt. Heather Taylor, the president of the Ethical Society of Police, an organization started decades ago to represent black officers in the St. Louis region. “Our membership is concerned.” White officers are not oblivious to the realities of race, said Thomas Lake, a white former sergeant who retired this year. They largely believe that they are acting on experience, not bias, he said. Lake recalled the time he wrestled two black men over a pistol. “Did it make me biased toward black men? No,” he said. “But what it did do is it made me more cautious around them.” Even as he said that race did not play a big role within the department, Lake grappled with the uncomfortable, contradictory feelings the topic evoked in him. He agreed that there were times when bias led officers to act improperly, but that was the exception, he said. He and other white officers pointed to poor training or panic, rather than race, as the main explanation for potential misconduct. “I’m not a black officer, and I haven’t grown up in the same experiences as some of them have,” Lake said. “Then again, some of them haven’t grown up in the same experiences I’ve had.” Green, 40, said he never wanted to let race define his experience as a police officer. Like most black officers, he paid dues to both the St. Louis Police Officers Association, the traditional union typically called the “white union,” and the Ethical Society of Police, commonly referred to as the “black union.” Much like the city it serves, the 1,300-member department is predominantly black and white; it has few officers of other races or Hispanic officers. But at two-thirds of the force, white officers are overrepresented in comparison with the city’s population, while black officers, at 30%, are underrepresented. In the beige brick headquarters that span a downtown block, officers of all backgrounds work side by side. They celebrate with recruits when they graduate by jogging a mile from the academy to the city’s iconic arch. When colleagues are injured or killed in the line of duty, regardless of their race, the department comes together. Two years ago, officers started an annual “unity party,” intended to bring people of all races together. Each of the department’s three patrol divisions has two captains — one black, one white. That even split might not be a coincidence, some say. The department has tried over the years to diversify its leadership. It has not always gone over well. More than two decades ago, white officers successfully challenged an affirmative action program that they said promoted less-qualified black candidates over them. In recent years, two white officers — a sergeant and a major — each won hundreds of thousands of dollars following lawsuits in which they claimed they were passed over for promotions in favor of less-qualified African Americans. A black captain got $1.1 million in a settlement with the city this year after he claimed racial discrimination in his firing. Three African American sergeants are suing the department, saying they were denied promotions in part because of their race. “It is toxic,” said Taylor, one of the plaintiffs who claims she was wrongfully denied a promotion. “We have these warring sides that believe they have been wronged.” After Green was shot, other officers on the scene scolded Tanner for firing at his colleague, said Green, who retired with disability this year. Fellow officers ushered Green into a police van and raced him to a hospital. By then, his faith that white officers could treat black people fairly was gone. He would later tell his children that they needed to be extra careful with white officers. Hayden, the police commissioner, said he hoped to introduce training that would encourage officers to have more direct conversations about race. In the cases of Green and Hall, Hayden said he believed that the use of force was unjustified. The role that race played, he said, was harder to say. “You hate to believe,” he said, “that it only happened because they were African American.” http://news.yahoo.com/white-officer-shoots-black-colleague-131113382.html |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Eegore on 11/25/19 at 16:39:33 I'm pretty sure in court the video from the first post would not qualify as racist. I'm not saying there wasn't profiling involved but yelling for a drivers license 800 times isn't racist unless they can prove he doesn't do this to other races. In any case it's good he was fired. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by WebsterMark on 11/26/19 at 05:36:04 I read two interesting pieces this morning. The first was from an African American Democratic Congresswoman in Michigan who publicly switched her push for impeachment to a censure because the Senate will never convict and all this does is weaken the Democrats in 2020. The other talked about a higher support for Trump among African Americans and Hispanics. This article was talking up the influence of Kayne West's recent religious actions which include specifically reminding African Americans to free themselves from the notion they have to vote for the Democrats. Following that was a CNN commentator's comments that would have labeled anyone else as racist : "Zero chance this is accurate. Zero. The poll must have only been conducted in the homes of Ben Carson, Kanye, that sheriff guy with the hat and those two Cubic Zirconia & Polyester-Spandex ladies." I think its too early to say what practical effect this will have a year from now but it seems the barometer is slowly moving towards a point more beneficial for the Republicans than the Democrats. Minority unemployment is at historically low levels. What percentage of those who: were looking for a job and have one now, whose wages have gone up, who see more opportunities, who see a push back against illegal immigration and who hear contrasting comments coming from West and CNN, will support a Democratic whose policies bring an unknown risk factor into the mix? |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Mavigogun on 11/26/19 at 06:56:27 122027363120370824372E450 wrote:
Neither of them had anything to do with this thread. Mark bends all to his narrow focus. We could look at recent polling, historical polling, variation in the polling over the last 3 years, the vote captured in 2016- but none would support Mark's fantasy... and, more importantly, would in no way speak to the topic of this thread. There is both a compelling pattern of malpractice by law enforcement and profound inequity in application of the justice system. This is where we're at, what we're confronted with- who we are -and a concern worthy of address... not deflection, distraction, or turning the channel to your preferred entertainment. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by pg on 11/28/19 at 13:42:38 Yeah guess what, $hit happens. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2019/11/27/fck-those-white-btches-racist-horde-of-thugs-beat-actress-bloody-in-new-york-city-n2557161 They got jumped and beaten to the ground by a group of 10 to 15 people who were yelling “white motherf—ers,” “dirty white b—-es” and “f—k those white b—-es and their money" Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Mavigogun on 11/28/19 at 22:05:52 ...and another post that has nothing to do with this thread. Makes you wonder why they post if they don’t want to discuss the topic... |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by pg on 11/29/19 at 03:59:36 5955425D535B53415A340 wrote:
The premise of this thread 'alive and well' illustrates racism. No argument that racism exists and the world has many unsavory people. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by srinath on 11/29/19 at 04:10:49 This is hilarious. When did posts at the "Tall" table ever relate to the Topic. Not in 2011-12 when I left and certainly not now. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Mavigogun on 11/29/19 at 05:24:57 3D3C27202F3A264E0 wrote:
There’s a correlation between those who participate and the quality of posts. Character ain't uniform, that’s for sure. As example: 485F59555A4A380 wrote:
An incoherent assertion- the theme is clearly the presence and impact of racism in law enforcement. By citing an anecdote and proclaiming “racism exists in the world”, “pg” attempts to equivocate the damage of racism guiding law enforcement as nothing special. Inequity in law enforcement and application of deadly force is most definitely remark worthy; attempting to obfuscate that that by not recognizing police play a special, critical role in society is dishonest. 'Crime here, crime there, all equal.' No, it ain't. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by pg on 11/29/19 at 16:09:45 5854435C525A52405B350 wrote:
There’s a correlation between those who participate and the quality of posts. Character ain't uniform, that’s for sure. As example: 485F59555A4A380 wrote:
An incoherent assertion- the theme is clearly the presence and impact of racism in law enforcement. By citing an anecdote and proclaiming “racism exists in the world”, “pg” attempts to equivocate the damage of racism guiding law enforcement as nothing special. Inequity in law enforcement and application of deadly force is most definitely remark worthy; attempting to obfuscate that that by not recognizing police play a special, critical role in society is dishonest. 'Crime here, crime there, all equal.' No, it ain't.[/quote] First, I didn't equate anything other than racism occurs in this country. You made up the assertion regarding the law enforcement. Furthermore, the person in the OP was not on duty. How about that..... In addition, if a horde of redecks kicked the $hit out of two colord femise I surmise your opinion would be drastically different. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Mavigogun on 11/29/19 at 20:56:23 253234383727550 wrote:
No doubt you do- lacking integrity, you can't imagine it in others. As you've trained us to expect, your imagination is a poor crutch, liable as not to disappoint. As you must know, your "colored" label was abandoned with passing of Jim Crow. Some folks are ill equiped to adjust to changes like equal rights, equal representation, fight it; these bigots call for breaking our Union, celebrate the denial of representation in the Senate, determined to prevent the will of the most demographically representational caucus in US history from being heard. They are mostly bitter old men, and their passing will not be mourned. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by pg on 11/30/19 at 04:05:43 Just another personal attack from 'tolerant' progressive, always the politically correct justice warrior. Political correctness is best described as choosing the correct position in matters of politics. Choose your words wisely, examples are to follow. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Mavigogun on 11/30/19 at 05:02:19 7C6B6D616E7E0C0 wrote:
"Political correctness" used to just be known as "decency", "pg"- another thing you don't care for and call by another name. Yet, when you crawl out from under your rock enough to be clearly discerned, you puff up with false ubridge at being accurately labeled. It's too late for such theatrics- we've got your number. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by WebsterMark on 11/30/19 at 05:44:42 6263787F706579110 wrote:
I don't know Sti, its a pretty broad topic. The left side of the political spectrum tosses the term racist around like a salad. The problem is if everyone's a racist, no ones a racist. Plus the value you deliver for your political is directly proportional to the "seriousness" of your offense. See Governor of Virginia for example. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by pg on 11/30/19 at 16:27:21 7874637C727A72607B150 wrote:
If it used to known as decency, what is it known as now? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Eegore on 11/30/19 at 16:32:32 "If it used to known as decency, what is it known as now?" Political Correctness. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by pg on 11/30/19 at 17:02:20 634341495443260 wrote:
It was never decent.... The term first appeared in Marxist-Leninist vocabulary following the Russian Revolution of 1917. At that time it was used to describe adherence to the policies and principles of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (that is, the party line). Yes, the Bolsheviks were kind souls. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Eegore on 11/30/19 at 20:18:14 I'm just using the logic of the presented material: "Political correctness" used to just be known as "decency" This was followed with the question: "If it used to known as decency, what is it known as now?" These two sentences answer each other. Political Correctness used to be known as Decency, but is today known as, or called Political Correctness. So the answer to the question "What is Decency called now?" would be Political Correctness. Red used to be known as Blue. What is it called now? Red. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Mavigogun on 11/30/19 at 20:43:18 More often than not, the phrase is used by despicable people to distract/deflect from their egregious acts -as is the case here. Declaring that you enjoy calling folks you don't like names they don't care for, then labelling black folks "colored", is baldly racist provocation. Objecting to your disregard of harm and denial of dignity for blacks is just the decent response. You already understood that when you chose your words; you've made who you are perfectly clear- this ruse of denial is rediculouse. Which is the point- plausibility was never your purpose, so much as telegraghing the terms by which you will engage. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by pg on 12/01/19 at 04:02:07 222E39262820283A214F0 wrote:
Yet another incorrect protuberance on your behalf. I did not label or state their race, origin, so on. Your made an incorrect assumption, yet again. Evidently you believe all people of color have their ancestral roots from Africa….. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Mavigogun on 12/01/19 at 10:53:58 7067616D6272000 wrote:
Sophistic noise- your choice was "colored", not "people of color". Your character is seen in light of the totality of what you've exposed here- including your recent truncated cut-n-past Civil War Era history to support the notion that opposition to slavery was purely economic self interest. Your protest is disingenious, deniability implausible. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by pg on 12/01/19 at 12:55:28 2E22352A242C24362D430 wrote:
Wrong again..... I did not comment on the institution of slavery. I stated: 'the economics of slavery and political control of that system that was central to the conflict.' Furthermore, you yet again try to project some kind of 'self interest' and you even stated my ancestors likely benefited from the slavery establishment. The following passage strengthens my position. In an August 1862 letter to anti-slavery journalist Horace Greeley, Lincoln explained: I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was". ... My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Mavigogun on 12/01/19 at 21:30:56 7B6C6A6669790B0 wrote:
Backpedaling would be more effective if you weren't referring to a record anyone could just scroll up and read. The war was not about any noble effort, it was simply about economics... The "noble effort" alluded to here was the Abolitionist Movement. For a guy who lies so often, you do it exceptionally poorly. ... you even stated my ancestors likely benefited from the slavery establishment. As it turns out, you're a willful immigrant to Confederate values, rather than a native son. A man of your own making. Most folks who pretend the Civil War was "simply about economic", and nothing to do with the Abolitionist Movement, the conscientious rejection of slavery, do so to feel better about the evil choices of their ancestors. They do it for false pride. The record is clear and extant: plenty of folks rejected slavery on moral basis, were motivated to fight as an ethical imperative. You pretending otherwise is insipid. The topic of this thread is the compelling pattern of malpractice by law enforcement and profound inequity in application of the justice system. For whatever reason, that topic makes you uncomfortable enough to play this stupid what-about-ism game, floundering about from recent unrelated anecdotes to the Civil War to justify your animus. |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by pg on 12/02/19 at 05:58:32 313D2A353B333B29325C0 wrote:
Morongogun, it the history.com and pbs.org 'a willful immigrant to Confederate values'? Please refer to my posts where I cited their articles. See how that works..... Also, I made no comment on the institution of slavery. Other than to dispute your ludicrous assertion my ancestors benefitted from the slave trade. I also made no comment on the abolitionist movement as well. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Alive And Well Post by Mavigogun on 12/02/19 at 06:22:32 6C7B7D717E6E1C0 wrote:
Congratulations- you've achieved the level of every dullard who believes sprinkling their prejudice and supposition with record conveys credibility by association. Your cut-n-paste of the well elucidated accounts of others only emphasizes your own blindered review of history. Also, I made no comment on the institution of slavery. Don't believe what we read, eh? Good on you, "pg", emulating those you admire most. Go for the big, obvious lie. Unfortunate for you, that requires a complicit audience who have an interest in surrendering discernment, basic literacy. The war was not about any noble effort, it was simply about economics... 'I didn't say the word "slavery". I didn't say "quid-pro-quo"'. Such fundamental dishonesty- I would be ashamed. You make your choices... and are known by them. |
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