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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1571152710 Message started by Serowbot on 10/15/19 at 08:18:30 |
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Title: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Serowbot on 10/15/19 at 08:18:30 John Bolton Accused Trump's Chief of Staff of 'Cooking Up' a 'Drug Deal' in Ukraine https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/d3a59w/john-bolton-accused-trumps-chief-of-staff-of-cooking-up-a-drug-deal-in-ukraine President Trump’s last National Security Advisor John Bolton went ballistic after a July meeting about Ukraine and said he wanted no part of a backdoor connection he derided as a “drug deal,” a former top official reportedly testified. If Bolton confirms this,.. Trump is toast. I don't think Bolton will jump under the bus for Trump. :-? |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/15/19 at 09:04:37 How many times are you going to write the same thing..... If this is true....... Geez....where were you when I was a kid selling insurance.... |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Serowbot on 10/15/19 at 09:11:47 1A282F3E39283F002C3F264D0 wrote:
No wonder you support Trump... ;D |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/19 at 12:40:57 Them dammo walls are closing in UhGain... Toast UhGain Finished UhGain..... Phhht... |
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Title: The Three Amigos Post by eau de sauvage on 10/15/19 at 16:56:58 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry-live-updates/2019/10/15/4cdc9b70-eecd-11e9-89eb-ec56cd414732_story.html they call themselves The Three Amigos Acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney organized a meeting this spring in which officials determined to take Ukraine policy out of the traditional channels, putting Secretary of Energy Rick Perry, U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, and special U.S. envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker in charge of it instead, Kent told lawmakers Tuesday. Kent, the deputy assistant secretary of state responsible for Ukraine, told House investigators that he was told to “lay low” and defer to the trio, who called themselves the “three amigos,” Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-Va.) told reporters Tuesday. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by eau de sauvage on 10/15/19 at 17:08:03 [quote author=6A7C6B766E7B766D190 link=1571152710/0#0 date=1571152710] If Bolton confirms this,.. Trump is toast. I don't think Bolton will jump under the bus for Trump. In fact he's already toast, he'll be powdered toast, man. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln9oxGf_cos[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2unasWwTe9s[/media] |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by eau de sauvage on 10/15/19 at 20:16:29 Here's the latest on this. Tumblin' Trump, like the wall of Jericho. This is the first time since 2016 that Trump has completely lost control of the news cycle. It is my belief that the reason he gave Erdogan the green light to kill us allies soldier who were fighting with the US for the past 3 years, was to try and recapture the news cycle. Anyone remember the SAS soldier that Trump condemned to death in a pointless raid early on in his term. Or how he sent the cruise missiles in to show Assad. Now he's given up the Kurds who were instrumental in displacing ISIS, and allowed Russia to do whatever she wants. Nixon also condemned extra US soldiers to death by deliberately not ending the Viet Nam war, in order to increase his election chances. What do you suppose the the GOP are going to say in the future when a Democratic Party wants to increase the deficit. Now I'm not saying that a large deficit is a problem per se, but we all know how they howled. I'm curious to see if they can still get away with their hypocrisy. I have a feeling that this may be the lasting damage Trump has done to the GOP, they have no credibility at all, and the entire justice department works for Trump now. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZTDd1MA1vM[/media] |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/19 at 04:55:55 Aww......the entire justice department does work for Trump.... |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Mavigogun on 10/16/19 at 07:40:22 340601101706112E021108630 wrote:
This is a common misconception of those ignorant of our form of government: the Justice Department works for all residents of the United States. Only corrupt administrations attempt to co-opt the Justice Department through administrative power. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/19 at 08:42:11 Oh please..... that's like saying a police department works for all members of the city and not the mayor or city council for example.... This is Realsville, not a 3rd grade civics class. Talk about ignorance.... The President of the United States is the ultimate head of the justice department. They can direct the justice department to undertake or stop a wide range of activities. The Attorney General works at the pleasure of the President and can be fired by the President at anytime for any reason. Repercussions arise from that. Ask Nixon, but doesn't change the fact who the head of the department is. Ideally Attorney Generals are 100% independent from the President but that really never happens. Eric Holder refused Congressional request arguably to protect his boss and kept his job. Jeff Sessions recused himself and in exchanged incurred the wrath of Trump. Lynch did some questionable things. I'm sure you'd say Barr protected Trump with the Mueller debacle. Regardless, whomever it is, The President is head of the Justice Department and enjoys a certain level of limited protection that no other US citizen has. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by Mavigogun on 10/16/19 at 10:01:09 734146575041566945564F240 wrote:
In “Realsville”, when law enforcement collude with an executive at any level- State, local, or Federal -to enable disregard of law, patriots object. The President of the United States is the ultimate head of the justice department. They can direct the justice department to undertake or stop a wide range of activities. This is at the heart of your misapprehension: the President is most definitely not the head of the Justice Department. While the President may give whatever direction, it is incumbent on the Attorney General to refuse unlawful direction. A crisis occurs when the AG disregards that primary responsibility. Sure, the President can fire an AG and nominate a replacement. The President can nominate and fire the Surgeon General- that doesn’t transform the President into the United States ultimate doctor. Simply, the AG is not the President't lawyer- and the President is not the Chief Lawyer of the United States. Saying otherwise doesn’t make it so... and is just silly. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/19 at 10:15:27 The President is absolutely head of the Justice Department. There is no ambiguity there. Everyone knows that. You want to cloud the issue with your partisanship. Fine, go ahead but that doesn't change anything. A police chief may be the head of his police force and has the authority to fire any officer at any time for any reason. That doesn't mean an office is under legal obligation to follow orders they deem illegal. But that fact does not change the fact that the chief is head of the department. The President is Head of the Justice Department. The Attorney General reports to and is subordinate to the President. That doesn't mean the AG is legally obligated to follow illegal instructions. That fact does nothing to change the fact the President is at the top of the department. Like I said, if you want to me a political argument, go ahead, but from a factual point of view, the President is the Head of the Justice Department. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Serowbot on 10/16/19 at 10:23:04 Which means Trump is head if the Army,... and he should be impeached because of his bone spurs... I'm good with that... ;D |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/19 at 10:47:04 Well, your logic is at least as sound as that other dude so I'll give you points for that. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by T And T Garage on 10/16/19 at 10:51:09 http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/tFK8urY6XHj2w/giphy.gif |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Serowbot on 10/16/19 at 11:03:49 546661707766714E627168030 wrote:
Bad news,... you're the other dude... ;) |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by Mavigogun on 10/16/19 at 12:06:00 192B2C3D3A2B3C032F3C254E0 wrote:
This is an example of claiming false authority by projecting your own misunderstanding onto “everyone”. You are correct though- there is no ambiguity as to your mistake. A police chief may be the head of his police force and has the authority to fire any officer at any time for any reason. That doesn't mean an office is under legal obligation to follow orders they deem illegal. But that fact does not change the fact that the chief is head of the department. Facts are not established through rationalizations. Still, there is some utility to be had here- as the parallel works, if not bent to serve a narrative: the head of the police department is the chief- not the mayor. Ask any police officer who heads their precinct- none will respond “the Mayor”. Yes, a mayor can fire a police chief. Yes, a mayor can direct a chief to do any number of illegal things. I reckon your confusion arises from the President’s role as ultimate civilian control over the military. Regardless, these are not semantic destinations, but codified legal relationships- unchanged by the number of times you repeat a mistake and label it a fact. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by Eegore on 10/16/19 at 13:00:53 "The President is absolutely head of the Justice Department. There is no ambiguity there. Everyone knows that." According to the Dept. of Justice, the President is not Head of the DOJ, the Attorney General is. How are you arriving at your conclusion that the POTUS "heads" the DoJ? https://www.justice.gov/ag https://www.justice.gov |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by Serowbot on 10/16/19 at 13:05:25 7151535B4651340 wrote:
Because,... in a Fascist state, he is... |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by eau de sauvage on 10/16/19 at 13:25:44 515D4A555B535B49523C0 wrote:
Well said. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/19 at 13:41:40 0525272F3225400 wrote:
"The Power of the Executive Branch is vested in the President of the United States." As such, all offices under the President are subordinate. In my company, we have VP's of various departments who have wide latitude in operating their departments. The CEO may or may not choose to inject himself into the actions of those departments. Whether he does or not is immaterial, there is no ambiguity, he is the Head of Sales, the Head of Production, the Head of Marketing, etc..... The President of the United States is the Head of the Executive Branch and the entities that fall under his authority. The Legislative Branch and any separate entity falling directly under it, are not under his control and he has no authority over them. The Judicial Branch and any entity falling directly under it, are not under his control and he has no authority over them. But the Justice Department is directly under the Executive Branch and as such, is ultimately headed up by the President. You guy's problem is you're mixing your partisan political wishes with the structure of government. If someone can fire you, you are their subordinate. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/19 at 13:42:41 ... Regardless, these are not semantic destinations, but codified legal relationships- unchanged by the number of times you repeat a mistake and label it a fact Yes they are. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by Eegore on 10/16/19 at 13:49:04 "You guy's problem is you're mixing your partisan political wishes with the structure of government. If someone can fire you, you are their subordinate." I don't have any partisan political wishes. I have worked for the DoJ, I have looked up the structure posted publicly regarding this topic. The results, to me, indicate that if a legal document required the signature of the "Head" of the DoJ that the signature would be that of the Attorney General and not the POTUS. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/16/19 at 14:16:13 Wrong.. Look up President can fire the attorney general. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/19 at 14:27:20 78585A524F583D0 wrote:
Oh come on Eegore....... you know this. The President is Head of the Justice Department. If I need a document signed by the head of sales, I go to the VP of Sales. But he is not really the head of sales now is he?.... The CEO is. The CEO voluntarily cedes his authority over sales to the VP for as long as it pleases him to do so. At anytime, he can recall that authority in part (as in directing a specific sales campaign be undertaken) or in full (by firing him.) Any person or entity the Attorney General has authority over, the President has a higher authority over. You cannot dispute that. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Eegore on 10/16/19 at 14:27:58 I never said the POTUS can not fire the AG. I can fire people but that does not make me the "head" of each department. The staff do not report to me, they report to their department "heads". I do not sign every legal document for every department. Because the President can fire someone doesn't make him the head of that Department. The POTUS does not sign paperwork labeled for the Head of the DoJ. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/19 at 15:34:21 I can fire people but that does not make me the "head" of each department. Actually it does. If you have that authority, you can intercede and direct activities in whatever direction you choose. That makes you the defacto head of that department. Are you the day to day head/leader? No, perhaps not. My CEO is not my day to day head/leader in sales, the VP of sales is. But make no mistake, my CEO is the real head/leader. Call this semantics if you want, but there are real and legal practical ramifications from the FACT that the President is the Head of the Justice Department. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by Eegore on 10/16/19 at 16:37:38 I'm just thinking if a question on a high school test asked: Who is the Head of the Department of Justice? Donald Trump would not be considered a correct answer because he is not the Head of the Department of Justice. He is the President, and Barr is the Head of the Department of Justice. So is the question: Does the President have absolute control of the Department of Justice? I'd still say no, but he can issue Executive Order, and he can fire, but not hire on his own the Head of the Department of Justice. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Serowbot on 10/16/19 at 16:45:11 Not sure about the AG in particular,.. but most appointments take an oath to the Constitution and the American people, not to the President. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by eau de sauvage on 10/16/19 at 16:49:35 675552434455427D51425B300 wrote:
LTM, no they're not. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by MnSpring on 10/16/19 at 17:15:57 5D4244435E5968586850424E05370 wrote:
Unless the AG, (Holder) runs and hides under the skirt of the President, (Obama). |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Serowbot on 10/16/19 at 17:17:53 53704D6E6C7770791E0 wrote:
Unless the AG, (Holder) runs and hides under the skirt of the President, (Obama). [/quote] The President that's gonna' fire him?... Bad hiding place... |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/19 at 18:09:03 I'm just thinking if a question on a high school test asked: Who is the Head of the Department of Justice? Donald Trump would not be considered a correct answer because he is not the Head of the Department of Justice. He is the President, and Barr is the Head of the Department of Justice. And I'd mark the answer correct too. But if someone else wrote in "However, the Justice Department is part of the Executive Branch and therefore it's powers are vested in the Presidency" I'd give them extra credit. So is the question: Does the President have absolute control of the Department of Justice? Yes. Does he have absolute control over the military as Commander in Chief? I'd still say no, but he can issue Executive Order, and he can fire, but not hire on his own the Head of the Department of Justice. He can nominate and wait for Senate approval. He can 'hire' (appoint) and acting AG. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/19 at 18:12:03 3325322F37222F34400 wrote:
I'm sure the AG takes an oath like most other elected or appointed members of one of the 3 branches. And of course that oath is to the Constitution and not the President, or the American people for that matter since they can be wrong. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Mavigogun on 10/16/19 at 21:33:12 This is what we've come to expect from the integrity-challenged: rather than discuss the salient points of the reporting referenced in the lead post, their understandable preference is to declare some tangential absurdity and defend it against predictable protest. That ain't honest. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by T And T Garage on 10/16/19 at 21:36:49 505C4B545A525A48533D0 wrote:
It's kinda what they do best though, Mavigogun.... |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/19 at 11:18:28 Bolton isn't a friend of Trump. Who is surprised? Look at all the This is the end of Trump Moments.. And you schmucks just keep lapping it up. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Mavigogun on 10/17/19 at 11:35:45 80% turn over in the top ranks of the Trump Administration indicates friendship isn't something he inspires. Such an attrition rate points directly to a failed executive. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/19 at 11:48:20 He's kikkinASS.. Lefties only see through that one eye. The Uniparty and the whole status quo that has brought America to such a low place has been filled by the people who Trump has been forced to fire. That some quit just proves he's serious enough about changing things that they saw they were gonna Get gone anyway. Trump is By FAR the best president I've ever seen. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by Mavigogun on 10/17/19 at 13:34:11 Justin, you don't make the slightest attempt at conversation. No more of my time for you. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by MnSpring on 10/17/19 at 13:44:04 253A3C3B2621102010283A367D4F0 wrote:
I would disagree with that, I would say the Ultra Lefties, (Which are encountered here) ONLY, see, what they are, TOLD, to see/hear/believe. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by MnSpring on 10/17/19 at 13:54:23 3935223D333B33213A540 wrote:
I have a question, where is, Progressive Texas ? It is Roma, or is it a enclave of Austin ? |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Serowbot on 10/17/19 at 15:51:39 2E22352A242C24362D430 wrote:
Perry just announced he's resigning... ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/19 at 15:55:25 44485F404E464E5C47290 wrote:
Bullshit,, you'll be trotting along behind me, sniping at me. But, Should you manage to not engage, I'll call it a win. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by T And T Garage on 10/17/19 at 17:39:26 415E585F42457444744C5E52192B0 wrote:
Bwaahaahaaahaaaaa!! |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/18/19 at 05:37:20 5640574A52474A51250 wrote:
Perry just announced he's resigning... ;D ;D ;D[/quote] If Rick Perry were a Democrat, he'd be a shoe-in for their nominee. I hope he's not thinking he can somehow challenge Trump on the Republican side because he may have polished his act up a little since his last time in the ring. This is an interesting story. It could be he knows something about Trump and is hoping once it comes out, Trump will be so weak that he can swoop in and pick up the pieces because no one believes Pence could win a national election. If Perry is guilty of some wrongdoing, wouldn't he be better off in office and use whatever level of protection it might offer? Did he do something wrong totally unrelated to Trump and was asked to leave? Or is he really just tired of Washington? |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/19 at 07:13:31 I won't miss him. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/18/19 at 07:51:40 Classic definition of an empty suit. Just go play golf and hunt deer in Texas Rick. Let it go. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Mavigogun on 10/18/19 at 20:33:18 526067767160774864776E050 wrote:
Your judgement is completely broken. It must be frustrating, being so detached from reality that any story seems as likely as any other. You just pick the nonsense that pleases you the most. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by MnSpring on 10/19/19 at 10:25:11 2A26312E2028203229470 wrote:
WOW, Ask tt what color the Pot is: 74786F707E767E6C77190 wrote:
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by T And T Garage on 10/21/19 at 20:05:44 4C6F527173686F66010 wrote:
WOW, Ask tt what color the Pot is: 74786F707E767E6C77190 wrote:
[/quote] *still living in mn's head, rent free!* :D |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by Serowbot on 10/22/19 at 16:08:09 William B. Taylor Jr., the senior U.S. diplomat to Ukraine just blew the lid off the Ukraine deal.... Trump will be impeached... |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/23/19 at 04:55:47 5046514C54414C57230 wrote:
Yea, ok..... |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal" Post by WebsterMark on 10/23/19 at 05:18:02 House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., said a fellow Republican lawmaker deconstructed a key part of the latest Trump impeachment inquiry witness testimony in Tuesday's closed-door session. "In 90 seconds, we had John Ratcliffe destroy [acting U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Bill] Taylor's whole argument," McCarthy said. Choose who you want to believe. However, your very first post in this thread promised a crushing, unrecoverable blow to Trump, but that's gone the way of the dozens of other "this is it" moments you've posted with Christmas morning-like giddiness. You fall for any story, regardless how ridiculous it may be. As Predident Donald J Trump would say about you; Sad. |
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Title: Re: Bolton "I'm not part of this drug deal Post by Mavigogun on 10/23/19 at 05:23:17 023037262130271834273E550 wrote:
This is how you loose a democracy- enlist the citizenry in shrugging off trampling of the Constitution, crimes by the head of State. Mark has traded patriotism for partisanship. |
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