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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Do facts ever change your mind? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1570460370 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/19 at 07:59:30 |
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Title: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/19 at 07:59:30 https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2019/10/05/assault-weapons-popular-ever-crime-still-going/ Links to supporting information in the article.. https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2019/10/05/assault-weapons-popular-ever-crime-still-going/ |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by Eegore on 10/07/19 at 08:09:06 My question is how many people are saying non-public grouped mass shootings will still occur with "Assault Style" weapons if they are banned. Everyone knows gang activity, domestic violence, suicides etc. with firearms will not reduce by banning one weapon type. But who thinks banning the weapon will remove or reduce it from people who want to shoot multiple rounds in rapid-progression into a crowded space? |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/19 at 08:15:49 So, what are you saying? And I'm gonna add a bit of the article.. However, it seems that not only are the guns even more popular than before, but crime is also still going down. The FBI has released its crime data for 2018 and the news is good. Violent crime dropped 3.3 percent in 2018 compared to 2017. According to the report, a decrease was seen across nearly every type of violent crime. Looking at a 10-year trend, the numbers of violent crimes were down a full 9 percent from 2009 through 2018. The rate shows a more dramatic drop: “There were an estimated 368.9 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2018, a rate that fell 3.9 percent when compared with the 2017 estimated violent crime rate and dropped 14.6 percent from the 2009 estimate.” Homicides with firearms were down 7 percent from 2017. And in stark contrast to the theatrics of last week’s House Judiciary Committee on banning modern sporting rifles, rifles were again only used in 2 percent of homicides, far less than the share committed with knives (11 percent) or hands and feet (5 percent). All this Ban them! Demand by lefties is Screwed up. First, no, the right to own them is not determined or affected by your fear. And it's gonna be just as effective in stopping school shootings as the conveniently located No Gun Zone signs. But keep hyperventilating and wringing your hands as you Demand SOMETHING be done!!!EEEEK! Want something done to really make a difference? Arm teachers. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by Eegore on 10/07/19 at 08:25:31 I'm saying that I wonder what the objective is in regards to banning a specific weapon type. Very specifically not asking if the objective is to ban all guns, frog in boiling water etc. For the sake of this one specific discussion I am, for me, asking in exclusivity what the objective of banning Assault Style weapons is and only that weapon type, excluding the concept of the eradication of all legal gun ownership. So if the idea is making AR's harder to get makes them less likely to be used in a mass shooting, will that work? How hard are they to get now? Is there a more effective process, or processes to protect from a shooter? Is there a way to detect this before it happens? What percentage of reduction will actually happen by banning Assault Weapons? Is it worth the fight if other options work better? The real problem is the all or nothing mentality where people either want no gun laws, or no guns. While they argue criminals get guns and find crowds to use them on. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/19 at 09:10:26 You're asking reasonable questions. The banners need to answer. Yes, there IS a mechanism to limit what crazies do. Make concealed carry NOT a mental disease to half the country. Funny how it's Responsible to protect ourselves with helmets and seatbelts,, but being armed just in case you find yourself in a deadly situation, Ohhh, the Horrors.. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by T And T Garage on 10/07/19 at 09:20:19 312E282F32350434043C2E22695B0 wrote:
More guns haven't worked up to this point. Even more guns won't work in the future. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by MnSpring on 10/07/19 at 09:32:24 19393B332E395C0 wrote:
what the objective of banning Assault Style weapons is and only that weapon type The reason is to eventually ban ALL firearms. excluding the concept of the eradication of all legal gun ownership You can't exclude the reason, (all legal gun ownership), because that, IS the Goal/Reason. How hard are they to get now? Exactly the same as any other handgun. Which is harder than a rifle. What percentage of reduction will actually happen by banning Assault Weapons? If it is school shootings, or crime in general, the answer is the same, NONE |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by Eegore on 10/07/19 at 13:43:43 "The reason is to eventually ban ALL firearms." I very specifically stated that, for me, I am not addressing this, in this specific thread. "You can't exclude the reason, (all legal gun ownership), because that, IS the Goal/Reason." I can. You can too. It's possible to have a conversation about one component of a large and varied topic without always bringing up the same thing. For me, in this thread, I am not including the banning of all guns as part of my discussion about why a specific firearm type is under scrutiny for being banned. It prohibits the examination of why this one component is so compelling to the general public. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by MnSpring on 10/07/19 at 15:27:45 7C5C5E564B5C390 wrote: I know that, and I very specifically said: "You can't exclude the reason, (all legal gun ownership), because that, IS the Goal/Reason." why a specific firearm type is under scrutiny for being banned. Again, because the goal is to ban ALL firearms. It prohibits the examination of why this one component is so compelling to the general public. Why is banning a specific firearm, today, now, compelling ? 1. Recent events have given the opportunity to say, 'save lives', when in truth, it is just the first step to banning. 2. Because the Media today is telling everybody how, 'scary' a gun is, to, 'scare' people. 3. Many people believe, because they have been told, banning a specific firearm, will solve all the problems. 4. Many people who don't know what the truth is, believe other people that want to ban guns. 4. The truth, is boring. 'SCARY' is not. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by thumperclone on 10/07/19 at 15:29:23 1131333B2631540 wrote:
me thinks it's fear that fire arm may be too much like a real assault(military?) weapon |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by thumperclone on 10/07/19 at 15:30:21 1131333B2631540 wrote:
me thinks it's fear that fire arm may be too much like a real assault(military?) weapon why are fully automatic weapons outlawed?? |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/19 at 15:36:19 2F313E3F322F34295B0 wrote:
More guns haven't worked up to this point. Even more guns won't work in the future. [/quote] So nobody here wants AR15 banned? BULLSHIT And the article, with fbi stats, PROVES More guns Less crime. So Try again |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by thumperclone on 10/07/19 at 16:04:15 name one banner jog |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/19 at 16:53:25 Let the lefties state for the record that they don't support banning the AR15. Whoever doesn't Is |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by Eegore on 10/07/19 at 16:54:01 "why are fully automatic weapons outlawed??" They aren't. There are more steps involved in the acquisition, but in any case there is extensive research and information available as to why fully automatics were restricted, along with Sawed-off shotguns and switchblades. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by Eegore on 10/07/19 at 16:56:55 "Why is banning a specific firearm, today, now, compelling ? 1. Recent events have given the opportunity to say, 'save lives', when in truth, it is just the first step to banning. " Again: Not implementing full bans into my assessment for this topic. Keep bringing it up, I will keep explaining that I will not apply it to my discussion. It prohibits the exploration of why this one weapon type is so compelling. "Let the lefties state for the record that they don't support banning the AR15. Whoever doesn't Is " That's like saying whoever doesn't reply to a post I made is a jakkass, even if they never read it. I can't prove they read it, but I can now magically just claim they never responded to this post based off post count alone, which can be manipulated, and as such is an "AR banner", with literally, zero, evidence. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by MnSpring on 10/07/19 at 17:48:42 49696B637E690C0 wrote:
Look to post #8. I answered. "Let the lefties state for the record that they don't support banning the AR15. Whoever doesn't Is " That's like saying whoever doesn't reply to a post I made is a jakkass, even if they never read it. I will rephrase that for JOG. "Let the people here, that have said, they want to ban/confiscate a certain firearm. Or totally support someone else stating they will, ban/confiscate a firearm. State for the record that they don't support a ban/confiscating, of a firearm, which is, or looks like a AR-15" |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by MnSpring on 10/07/19 at 18:17:40 "...fully automatics were restricted, along with Sawed-off shotguns and switchblades...: The 1934, National Firearms Act was the result of the ST. VALENTINE'S DAY MASSACRE. Which was a gang war, as to who had what area during Probation. It was spurned by, hysteria, and UN-informed people. Below is a quip from a paper published in 1933. "...It is notorious that when restrictions are put upon the possession of firearms or any particular kind of weapon they never are effective against the criminal classes but only put the peaceable man at a disadvantage or in a false position before the law. The prohibition does not bother the enemy of society but it makes a technical offender of the decent citizen. The man who would not misuse a weapon is the man who is injured. The drive for public security is thus given the wrong direction..." Switchblades are regulated by State. And those that have regulations, the regulations are very widely ignored. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by Eegore on 10/07/19 at 19:38:44 "I will rephrase that for JOG. "Let the people here, that have said, they want to ban/confiscate a certain firearm. Or totally support someone else stating they will, ban/confiscate a firearm. State for the record that they don't support a ban/confiscating, of a firearm, which is, or looks like a AR-15"" I will reiterate the section of my post you conveniently ignored: That's like saying whoever doesn't reply to a post I made is a jakkass, even if they never read it. I can't prove they read it, but I can now magically just claim they never responded to this post based off post count alone, which can be manipulated, and as such is an "AR banner", with literally, zero, evidence. Again. You can not prove this post was read. But you can say they are for banning AR's if they don't respond. Prove they read this post and I will consider accepting they are pro-AR ban. Anything else is pure speculation and finger pointing. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/19 at 19:44:00 I'm wrong either way. I Hafta dig up quotes and accuse, Or Let grown men state their position. Let's see who actually steps up. Come on gents, go against the facts. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by WebsterMark on 10/08/19 at 03:04:56 You really want to stir things up, look up articles linking abortion and lower crime rates..... But big picture- wise, there are a lot of inconvenient facts. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by MnSpring on 10/08/19 at 07:03:56 426260687562070 wrote:
That is your best rendition of tt posting/answering something yet. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by Eegore on 10/08/19 at 10:24:56 That is your best rendition of tt posting/answering something yet. Back to top So you are saying that you agree that if someone on this forum does not post in this thread that they are Anti- AR Banning that they are instead Pro-AR banning? How is that not pure speculation? |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/08/19 at 17:07:27 3E2127203D3A0B3B0B33212D66540 wrote:
Who actually believes this isn't being read? Let's see. Screw you, Bot. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by MnSpring on 10/08/19 at 17:11:34 4E6E6C64796E0B0 wrote:
This post is even better in emulating tt posts. "you are saying that you agree", The Ol, "Putting Words In Someone Else's Mouth" trick. (Said in the voice of the caricature Maxwell Smart) |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by Eegore on 10/08/19 at 21:12:35 "The Ol, "Putting Words In Someone Else's Mouth" trick." Incorrect. You specifically cut out the part asking if it were a question in an attempt to make it appear it was a statement. The Question Mark at the end indicates that the sentence is a Question. So lets quote: "Let the lefties state for the record that they don't support banning the AR15. Whoever doesn't Is " How I read the above quote is: Whoever doesn't state for the record that they don't support banning the AR-15, Is supporting the banning of AR-15. This is supported further by the following: "Who actually believes this isn't being read? Let's see. Screw you, Bot." This quote further supports the idea that there is an expectation that this thread is being read by members who choose not to comment. Based off of past threads where insults were made due to lack of response, justified by post-read counts, I come to the conclusion that JoG expects these threads to be read, and replied to. He has made an ultimatum in this thread indicating that anyone who does not explicitly state they are Not for banning AR-15's are the opposite, and Are for banning AR-15's. That is complete nonsense based off of many factors, one being that he lacks the authority or knowledge to in any capacity assess what other members think, and also lacks the empirical evidence to even support his ultimatum with factual evidence if the topic is brought up again. It's middle-school peer pressure tactics at best. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/08/19 at 21:20:53 I rewrote it . Look up. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/08/19 at 21:22:33 Doesn't matter. Nobody's gonna own their desire to ban them. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by thumperclone on 10/09/19 at 04:25:43 46595F5845427343734B59551E2C0 wrote:
how obtuse |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/09/19 at 09:14:52 Obtuse The people who ignore the fact that I rewrote it. Look up |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by thumperclone on 10/09/19 at 14:35:29 56494F4855526353635B49450E3C0 wrote:
you are still avoiding the question YOU NAME HIM/HER.. you can not you can not admit when you are wrong the whole reason for this topic is to AVOID talking about the "best" potus ever |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by MnSpring on 10/09/19 at 15:13:25 465A475F425740515E5D5C57320 wrote:
In my political, (paying attention), lifetime, that would be Ronald Reagan. To young to be politically involved, yet the Phrase: "...ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country..." really stuck in my mind, even at a young age. It is a long way away from today's, UL, FDS GBS's who cry, Gimme, Gimme, Gimme. And the wanna be presidential candidates saying things like, 'Vote for me, I will give you this and that' What I have learned from History, shows that in the last 100 years, JFK was the second best ! |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by Serowbot on 10/09/19 at 15:35:46 7A656364797E4F7F4F77656922100 wrote:
WTF?... :-? |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by thumperclone on 10/09/19 at 15:46:40 2630273A22373A21550 wrote:
WTF?... :-?[/quote] how was it?? ;D was he limp? is he a she? JK |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by MnSpring on 10/09/19 at 15:53:55 4B555A5B564B504D3F0 wrote:
Exactly what part of, 'more firearms, less crime', as outlined in the OP Link, you do not understand ? |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/09/19 at 16:09:27 2539243C213423323D3E3F34510 wrote:
you are still avoiding the question YOU NAME HIM/HER.. you can not you can not admit when you are wrong the whole reason for this topic is to AVOID talking about the "best" potus ever[/quote] I'm supposed to be able to remember who said what, and when I make a claim, find past statements,, You're something else. |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by Eegore on 10/09/19 at 16:16:53 "I rewrote it . Look up. " It wasn't clear that was a re-write of the original ultimatum. Is this what you were referring to? "I'm wrong either way. I Hafta dig up quotes and accuse, Or Let grown men state their position." Doesn't this still mean anyone who doesn't respond is pro-AR banning? |
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Title: Re: Do facts ever change your mind? Post by thumperclone on 10/09/19 at 16:41:46 293630372A2D1C2C1C24363A71430 wrote:
you are still avoiding the question YOU NAME HIM/HER.. you can not you can not admit when you are wrong the whole reason for this topic is to AVOID talking about the "best" potus ever[/quote] I'm supposed to be able to remember who said what, and when I make a claim, find past statements,, You're something else. [/quote] I am tyvm |
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