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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Weight of front axle? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1570112412 Message started by Armen on 10/03/19 at 07:20:12 |
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Title: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/03/19 at 07:20:12 Anyone have a stock front axle handy, and a scale? I'm engaging in stupidity too embarrassing to mention. Ounces or grams is fine. thanks |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Serowbot on 10/03/19 at 11:19:10 You can always save a little by having your gall bladder removed,... appendix, tonsils... You don't really need both kidneys... ;D I should talk,... I drilled the ball-ends of my hand levers... :-? |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by verslagen1 on 10/03/19 at 13:14:00 Yes, but they're not handy at the moment. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by stewmills on 10/03/19 at 14:56:25 Sounds to me like someone has drilled out their front axle and forgot to weigh it beforehand. ;) |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by hotrod on 10/03/19 at 17:42:54 It's the last place I would look to save weight. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by norm92de on 10/03/19 at 21:27:38 Now he will be in danger of wheelies :) |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by zevenenergie on 10/04/19 at 00:46:34 I am very curious about the weight. I think he will use 7075 T6 or 7068. Those are great materials that they also use in space travel. This time it will not be a nonsense thing, but increase driving comfort. I want one !! And all those other parts too. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/04/19 at 05:40:08 7068 aluminum. Stronger than spring steel or most stainless. Only question is how much it flexes. I'll make up some sort of jig to test deflection under load. Changing the way the axle is captured in the fork legs. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by zevenenergie on 10/04/19 at 06:02:04 I am shure it will turn out just fine. God bless amerika. And bless Trump too. (he is going to need all the help he can) Blessings to everyone ;) And belssings to you too Armen. Bless your bike and every one in front of it. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by verslagen1 on 10/04/19 at 08:07:21 13.08 oz. includes rust, dirt, etc. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by stewmills on 10/04/19 at 08:16:33 Considering that the gravitational forces on the West coast and East coast are close, transcontinental variance of the weight shouldn't be a factor. :D :D :D |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/19 at 08:38:47 I can tell you that stuffing your bike n the side of a car at 45 MPH will put a kink in that axle. Not real bad, but rolling it on a flat will reveal it. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/04/19 at 09:01:36 Thanks Versy! Bare axle? No spacers? |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by verslagen1 on 10/04/19 at 10:22:28 10233C343F510 wrote:
It's the axle, the whole axle and nothing but the axle. Rust not withstanding. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by zevenenergie on 10/04/19 at 10:45:47 I think he wants to know the weiht of te speacers too ;) |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by stewmills on 10/04/19 at 11:35:35 Armen, just cut to he chase and make the whole frond end smaller. Much lighter ;) I'll be needing one of those anti-pulley-wobble spacers soon. Will make that one of my winter projects.... |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/19 at 12:48:26 That almost needs a wheelie bar without even giving it gas.. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/04/19 at 17:20:38 Thanks Versy! I have the stock spacers. Hey Stew, rear anti-wobble spacers I gots! LMK where to send one. :-) |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/08/19 at 12:14:56 So, here is the first attempt. 7068 aluminum. 5.45 oz instead of 14+oz. And that's without the right side steel spacer. Haven't done the deflection test. Instead of the right side spacer, I left the axle full thickness so that it shoulders against the right side wheel bearing. That means that the right fork leg doesn't have a spacer to rest against, but then again, a lot of new bikes do it like this. Reason of this is that I get to take advantage of the larger axle diameter for a much longer distance. In shafts, strength increases as does the square of the diameter. With the holycrap fork brace, I'm sure the lower legs will be where they are supposed to be. Guess I'll find out. Of course, the real load comes from the left side under braking. The next generation will have the axle coming in from the left. A bit more work..... |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/08/19 at 12:15:43 oh yeah, the picture |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by verslagen1 on 10/08/19 at 13:37:12 1F2C333B305E0 wrote:
Or larger ID bearings? |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/08/19 at 14:13:38 Versy, I looked. No other bearing options and not enough material to bore out the hub. 20-20 hindsight, I should have started with a different hub. But I've got too much tied up in this one. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by verslagen1 on 10/08/19 at 14:23:34 I think bearing mfr's are evil, why aren't bearings available in every OD and ID? |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/08/19 at 15:10:27 So, someone much smarter than me cautioned that the aluminum wold flex a lot more than steel, even if it unbelievably wonderful aluminum. My thought was that the more full figured right end would make up for the flexure nature of the aluminum. I did this very crude, but prob somewhat accurate jig. Clamped the steel axle in the vise and hung a load on one end. Then clamped the aluminum one in, clamping at the same point. My very unscientific results show that the chubbier aluminum axle deflects only a teeny bit more than the steel one. Not throwing out the steel axle yet. I'll try them both. And hopefully make the other axle configuration and try it as well. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/08/19 at 16:53:47 [edit][/edit]Ohhh, c'mon, look at how the axle is loaded and supported. My forks were snapped off and the sliders were pinching the tire. The axle IS bent, but I had to roll it on the drill press to see it. I'm not about to go drilling one, because I don't think the performance gain from the weight loss would justify the effort. Not because I'm afraid of the axle crapping out. Well, depends on the hole diameter you're thinking about.. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/08/19 at 17:50:36 Justin Already tried drilling a steel one. Still twice the weight of the aluminum one. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by verslagen1 on 10/08/19 at 20:13:00 Armen, Yes you can get great aluminum. no matter what you do, aluminum will flex 3 times more than steel. It's in the young's modulus. Higher strength just means it can flex more before it breaks. And the harder the material is, the more likely it is to break than give you a tell tale bend. That tale is a warning... replace me. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/08/19 at 21:09:43 I'm pretty blasted bent.. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/09/19 at 00:57:59 Versy, That's why I did the deflection test. The stock axle moved about .004" and the 7068 about .005". Not three times the flex. the thicker right hand section of the aluminum, and it's holycrap qualities account for that. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by ZSteele on 10/09/19 at 05:51:09 Wouldn't steel and aluminum mirror wood/bamboo? IE the aluminum will bend with less force applied but wont break (also wont rebound like bamboo, someone should find a metal with memory properties) and the steel wouldn't bend as soon but if bent to the level of aluminum would fracture in some way? |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by verslagen1 on 10/09/19 at 10:43:26 It's important to leave large as possible radii where possible at the change in diameter. This will reduce the likelihood of fatigue fractures. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by stewmills on 10/09/19 at 11:42:48 I am not an engineer and this is a very crude comparison, but when I was making saddlebag hard mount brackets for my bags I first used 1" aluminum strapping (home depot stuff). I had to bend the aluminum at 90 degree bends. After mounting and grabbing the bags and bending them back and forth here and there to get them perfectly straight, I noticed the "cracked" look in the bends and realized it looked basically like the metal essentially tore apart instead of bend. Did the same exercise with steel strapping and steel is still good after a couple of years and me constantly bending the bags/steel brackets up and down from where they get pushed in. No, I did not use spaceship grade aluminum and no I did not anneal the aluminum, etc. My point is, I would be more afraid of the aluminum starting to "tear" and fracture over time versus the steel as you aren't going to be annealing the aluminum each time it wants to flex and come back to give its strength back. Like I said...I am no engineer and know little to nothing about the different alloys and such, just my two cents based on my kindergarten experience bending cheap aluminum. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by zevenenergie on 10/09/19 at 14:07:11 A little while ago I made a clutch housing from 7075 aluminium to replace a standard cast iron specimen. http://https://i.imgur.com/IdVCtsCl.jpg This one from aluminum was calculated at up to 14,000 rpm. for an 80cc mopet racer. http://https://i.imgur.com/aUglUbzl.jpg And although the aluminum 7075 was much stronger than cast iron, it was not wear-resistant at all. I was able to drive 180 miles with it and then it was worn out, while the cast iron one had already gone over 10,000 miles and stil going strong. http://https://i.imgur.com/AqgW9Msl.jpg So it is really important to pay attention to how you use it and for which application you use it. Strength doesn't say everything. I think the front axle should be tested for shearing to. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by verslagen1 on 10/09/19 at 14:59:44 Maybe bond a steel sleeve to the inside? |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by ohiomoto on 10/10/19 at 06:34:26 https://www.cycleworld.com/2014/04/18/ask-kevin-what-do-you-think-of-aluminum-axles/ |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/15/19 at 09:30:04 Ohio, Actually, Kevin and I traded notes about this axle before I made one. He hates anything other than steel for axles. Without a doubt, he is my most respected bike tech writer ever. My only comeback to his hatred/fear of the aluminum axle is that I am making the shape slightly different, and thicker along a significant portion of the axle. In the MKIII version, I'll have the axle come in from the left. Bore out the lower leg the way the right side is. That will give me more thickness where there is more load (under braking). What I'll do on the right is make a sleeve that will fit through the lower leg, sleeving over the axle, and butting up against the right side wheel bearing inner race. This way, the effective diameter of the axle is significantly larger over much of it's length. I've already bored out a left leg, and drilled/tapped/faced it to put a pinch bolt in like on the right. Just bolts on! |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by Armen on 10/15/19 at 09:35:15 Zeven, Beautiful work, but as you found out, aluminum is not a good friction material. Most bikes with drum brakes use a cast iron drum inside an aluminum hub. It would be a bit of work, but probably worth it. You could cut the existing cast iron piece up and press it into an aluminum hub. |
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Title: Re: Weight of front axle? Post by ohiomoto on 10/15/19 at 10:10:59 Waiting for pictures!! :) I have no horse in the race. Always interested in innovation. |
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