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Message started by TheBrendan312 on 08/14/19 at 20:00:42

Title: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by TheBrendan312 on 08/14/19 at 20:00:42

bike is 2001 with 3000 miles on it, rebuild the carb with a $20 kit off of amazon (probably not the best kit) and when I give it just a touch of throttle when starting st stoplights it will die down a bit until it gets more gas then the RPMs pick up back to normal. What could be the cause of this issue. The only think I could not replace in the carb was the fill valve due too the acre being corroded and stripping real easy.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by batman on 08/14/19 at 20:34:46

Rebuild kit online ,some times come with the wrong size jets, Hpoe you saved the one you took out , compare the sizes.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by TheBrendan312 on 08/15/19 at 05:10:06

Thanks Batman, I ordered new jets from a separate website. The kit only came with the puppet jets and not the mains. So I’ll give those a try.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 08/15/19 at 05:59:46

Sounds like the pilot jet is too lean. When you initially move the throttle you continue to lean the bike (because the jet can't keep up) until you hit the needle circuit and then all is good again. You can try (temporally until you get the proper sized jet back in) to improve off-idle performance by adjusting the fuel screw if it is uncapped/exposed.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by TheBrendan312 on 08/15/19 at 06:30:14

Thanks Gary, I have the adjuster screw as far in as it will go. I have also done the half spacer mod on the needle. Should I try to put the old pilot jets back in to see if that will work better?

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by ohiomoto on 08/15/19 at 06:59:34

I hate when people "rebuild" and "clean" their carbs. Honestly, there isn't really much to rebuild and not much to clean unless the bike sat in a barn for a few years.

Anyway...

1) Was the bike running properly before you rebuilt the carb?
If so, go back to the jetting that was in there and see if that helps. If it runs well, fine-tune the jetting from there, or just leave it alone. The stock jetting isn't that far off IMO.

2) Did you take the top of the carb apart, if so did you remove or replace the jets up there?
You could have a sticky slide, the diaphragm might not be fully seated or you put the wrong jets in. Any of these things could cause the lean condition Gary mentioned.

3) Did you change the float needle and/orseat?
If the were not identical to the units that came out, your float level is off. Go back to stock and check the float level.

After you figure it out, make sure you tell everyone you know to STAY THE F$%K AWAY from these "rebuild kits". ;D

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by TheBrendan312 on 08/15/19 at 07:22:08

The bike sat with a full gas tank for atleast 2 years, before that I’m not sure if it was stored properly. Before I “rebuilt” it, gas was coming out of the vent tubes. I replaced the slide needle and that issue was resolved. While I had it apart I also replaced the jets that came with the kit and I saved the old ones. And I did not change anything with the float. The screw that holds everything down was too messed up.

This is my first bike and my first time really messing with carbs.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by batman on 08/15/19 at 08:34:28

The brenden312 ,the adjustment screw is a fuel screw ,not an air screw ,if you have it all the way in you've leaned out the pilot /idle circuit, open it to about 1 1/2 turns to start, slow the idle speed as much as you can without stalling (so you can hear speed changes) and adjust it in or out, until you get the highest idle speed, if it ends up more than2 1/2 turns open you need a larger pilot jet , and the screw can vibrate and fall out at 3 turns out.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by ohiomoto on 08/15/19 at 09:14:32

506C614676616A60656A373536040 wrote:

-------------------------

If fuel was coming out of the vent hoses then you float needle was probably stuck. Sometimes tapping the side of the carb with the handle of a screwdriver or getting the bike started with the fuel turned off is enough to clear the problem.

You should also make sure that your fuel petcock is not faulty and there is no gas mixed in with your oil.

Lastly, when this kind of crap happens, it is NOT the time to do a white spacer or change anything to do with jetting. You really want to try and get this bike running properly with the same settings it has. Someone put 3k miles on so it should run decently well with what was in there. You just want to solve the fuel overflow issue and get it running. Once running, then you can determine if you need to do any tuning.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by ohiomoto on 08/15/19 at 09:22:27

Also...

You said the slide needle solved the problem and you didn't remove the float bowl?? If this is true, you simply got lucky with the fuel overflow issue. The float was probably stuck and it came loose when you started messing with the carb. That's why I said hit it with a screwdriver handle.

If you replaced the jets in the top of the carb and the slide needle, go back and put the stock stuff back in. Put the stock white spacer back while you are at it. See if it runs any better. If not, you may need to get the bottom of the carb apart and check that the pilot jet isn't clogged.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by TheBrendan312 on 08/15/19 at 09:38:10

6162776E626D373B030 wrote:

When I unscrew it, it seemed like it was running too rich and flooding. Could the issue be that the pilot jet is already too large?

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by TheBrendan312 on 08/15/19 at 09:51:30

5453525456544F543B0 wrote:

I understand now. I did have the carb all the way out and the float bowl apart. The slide needle and what it slides down into were very gunked up. As well as the main fuel jet was entirely clogged. I did replace the pilot jet in the bottom and one of the jets in the top portion of the carb (the smaller one) and every thing Was working way better except the current issue at hand.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by SpamyToo on 08/15/19 at 09:54:12

I would compare the new needle with the old one. I have had the jet kits come with completely wrong needles. Looks new and nice, but totally the incorrect taper.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by TheBrendan312 on 08/15/19 at 09:56:32

6447565A4E635858370 wrote:

I would compare the new needle with the old one. I have had the jet kits come with completely wrong needles. Looks new and nice, but totally the incorrect taper.

—————————————

What is it that I’m looking to compare when I’m looking at the two jets?

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by ohiomoto on 08/15/19 at 10:06:01

Do you know if this bike was running properly before it was parked for a couple of years?

Which needle did you actually replace?
The slide needle is the long needle that is in the slide which is accessed from the top of the carb. You might have removed it when you did the white spacer mod.

The float needle is in the bottom of the carb. You would have needed to remove the pin that holds the floats in place and float to replace it. That would solve the fuel overflow issue.

So you replaced the two jets in the bottom?
If so, you want to get back to stock sizes or whatever sizes came out.

Did you remove the two jets from the top of the carb?
If so, you should put the stock jets back in.

You should write down and confirm that you are using the proper size jets in each spot just in case someone changed it before you got there.

I would remove the white spacer mod until you get it running properly. You may or may not need it, but let's start by getting the bike operational. Make sure the slide is clean and the diaphragm is properly seated.

This is not a tuning issue so ignore the stupid low-speed adjustment. It wouldn't cause this issue by itself.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by batman on 08/15/19 at 13:10:55

The adjustment screw COULD cause your issue , it controls one of the two openings in the passage that your idle mix goes through . you may have enough fuel to allow the bike to run at idle ,but when you try to open the throttle the carb goes very lean and the motor dies. The bike needs to Idle a at least 1000 rpm to provide oil pressure to the cam, to prevent damage. You can test - 1000 rpm can be checked by putting the bike in !st gear with the throttle closed , on a level road ,it should do 8 mph .

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by verslagen1 on 08/15/19 at 13:57:38

or 8-10 beats per second.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by TheBrendan312 on 08/15/19 at 17:10:16

[b][/b]
7C7B7A7C7E7C677C130 wrote:

-------------------------------------------

So I do not know the condition of the bike before I bought it. I did replace the slide needle with the one that came in the kit. I was unable to replace the the replace the float needle cause the screw that holds it all together was badly corroded.

[b]In the bottom of the carb[b]
I only replaced the pilot jet. The main jet was not included in the rebuild kit.

[b]In the top of the carb[b]
I did replace the two to jets on the top with the ones that were included in the kit.

[b]What I did this afternoon[b]
I reverted back to the original two jets in the top of the carb and found that the smaller of the two was entirely different. I also switched back to the original slide needle and put the spacer back in.

The bike started right up and is running significantly better. Its still not perfect but its alot better.[/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b]

Also i cant figure out how to use the forums message options properly so sorry about that

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by batman on 08/15/19 at 19:02:35

You put the spacer back in? If you had it out and replaced it with nothing , you where bogging from being way to rich! generally we replace the stock spacer with either 2 0r 3 # 4 steel machine washers ,bring it back to 1/2 to 3/4 of the spacer's original thickness ,depending on your elevation above sea level . read up in the tech section .

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by ohiomoto on 08/16/19 at 07:02:23

Batman, He had done a white spacer mod. I recommended that he put the stuff back the way it was and try again,

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by ohiomoto on 08/16/19 at 07:07:20

635F5275455259535659040605370 wrote:

So I do not know the condition of the bike before I bought it. I did replace the slide needle with the one that came in the kit. I was unable to replace the the replace the float needle cause the screw that holds it all together was badly corroded.

In the bottom of the carb
I only replaced the pilot jet. The main jet was not included in the rebuild kit.

In the top of the carb
I did replace the two to jets on the top with the ones that were included in the kit.

What I did this afternoon
I reverted back to the original two jets in the top of the carb and found that the smaller of the two was entirely different. I also switched back to the original slide needle and put the spacer back in.

The bike started right up and is running significantly better. Its still not perfect but its alot better.

-----------------------------

See there, that is why we don't want to try and jet around or while we are dealing with other problems!!

So it runs better. If it runs well enough to ride, that's what I would do. Ride it for a while. run at least a tank of gas through it (which doesn't take long on these bikes) and see if anything changes. It may clear up some leftover gunk or something. See what happens and then figure out what's needed next.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by batman on 08/16/19 at 17:35:08

Guess I missed that ,yes he did the 1/2 spacer mod ,but we don't know his location /elevation.
what bugs me is newbies don't just clean the carb but always seem to think they need to get a rebuild kit. I just ordered my second carb part yesterday a new float (pin hole leak) , that and a 150 main jet ,are the only parts I've bought 24 years.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/19 at 18:56:07

Start with cleaning.
If parts get changed or
Performance Modifications made,
All that has been accomplished is
Self induced variables.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by TheBrendan312 on 08/21/19 at 04:59:27

So I have put almost 3 tanks of gas through it and it’s running a lot better. I believe I’m having issues with the float needle valve. When I turn my Petcock off (I did the raptor swap) it starts running significantly better. It’s the only thing that I could not get out of the carb when cleaning due to the clip screw being weak and stripping easily.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by batman on 08/21/19 at 05:39:52

When you turn the petcock off the level in the bowl drops ,perhaps the float needle is OK but the float level is set to high. all the screws on the bike are JIS (Japanese industrial standard) NOT phillipshead which are too pointed to allow the four blades to fit down into the screws all the way. you can file /grind a phillipshead down by blunting the point and changing the angle of the blades so the entire tip is shallower and the blades insert fully.

Title: Re: Boggs down at the touch of throttle
Post by ohiomoto on 08/22/19 at 09:04:42

5864694E7E6962686D623F3D3E0C0 wrote:

------------

Did you remove the floats and clean and inspect the float needle for wear?

If you are talking about the screw that holds the float "seat", leave it be and just clean o replace the float needle for now. Clean the seat as best you can. You just need to remove the float that is held in place my a pin.

Look here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1191899985

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/LS650%20Mikuni%20BS40%20Carb%20Cleaning%2020.jpg