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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> We ALL have a choice...... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1559104002 Message started by raydawg on 05/28/19 at 21:26:42 |
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Title: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/28/19 at 21:26:42 Everyone has free will....everyone. Thinking yours is right, and assigning others as wrong, is to totally delude oneself of reality.... To expand further, its ignorant, because you have refused to take into considerations, that others live their lives and make choices according to their own unique perspective, just as you, and everyone else, have their own unique perspective.... To discount others, is to discount yourself, choosing to remain....ignorant. Then, you blame others for not seeing YOUR truth, retaliate and become punitive.... Like mounting a merry-go-round, and complaining you never get anywhere..... ;D The real choice is thus...... FISHING OR CAMPING......?????? Now that is hard to decide ;) http://https://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm288/eddy-haskell/here%20size_edited-1_zpsryaffoam.jpg (https://s299.photobucket.com/user/eddy-haskell/media/here%20size_edited-1_zpsryaffoam.jpg.html) http://https://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm288/eddy-haskell/60785808_2409067129118021_7742283531543379968_n_zpslqz74esn.jpg (https://s299.photobucket.com/user/eddy-haskell/media/60785808_2409067129118021_7742283531543379968_n_zpslqz74esn.jpg.html) Can I get a little help here........ :D |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by LostArtist on 05/28/19 at 23:38:16 22312934312737500 wrote:
you're the most confusing MF on this board...... |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by T And T Garage on 05/29/19 at 05:38:43 [quote author=2B38203D382E3E590 link=1559104002/0#0 date=1559104002]Everyone has free will....everyone. Thinking yours is right, and assigning others as wrong, is to totally delude oneself of reality.... Really? Am I wrong to condemn murder? Am I wrong to pay taxes? Am I wrong to want to live in a free country? To expand further, its ignorant, because you have refused to take into considerations, that others live their lives and make choices according to their own unique perspective, just as you, and everyone else, have their own unique perspective.... That's all well and good, but you can't sit there and deny that there are not cases where there is a wrong and there is a right attitude (see above). To discount others, is to discount yourself, choosing to remain....ignorant. Well ray, I totally discount nazis, racists, people who kick puppies, rapists, gang bangers, etc. I think that's the opposite of ignorant. I know what those people do, therefore, I discount them. Then, you blame others for not seeing YOUR truth, retaliate and become punitive.... Like mounting a merry-go-round, and complaining you never get anywhere..... ;D The real choice is thus...... FISHING OR CAMPING......?????? Now that is hard to decide ;) |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/29/19 at 06:40:00 785B47407546405D4740340 wrote:
you're the most confusing MF on this board......[/quote] Ok, so that is Mostly Fishing then......????? You need any help baking those sugar cookies for the Harper Valley PTA meeting buddy? :) |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by MnSpring on 05/29/19 at 06:51:26 77647C61647262050 wrote:
My answer is: YES |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/29/19 at 07:28:52 2F0C3112100B0C05620 wrote:
My answer is: YES [/quote] OK....first, I must make clear for the record you answered this freely, without any pressure, or influence, threats, shaming, derogatory references, to you personally....... That you answer is free from financial considerations, politico or social manipulations...... That by your own testimony, of self, you are one righteous guy who can stand in judgment of others, and always be right..... Is this correct? I want t be certain your answer is just..... As I've been led astray too many times, by wild sales pitches, promises, and questionable women, who bring their own pole holder on a boat filled with men...... So, can you affirm this please :-* |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by MnSpring on 05/29/19 at 08:06:50 76657D60657363040 wrote:
YES ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by T And T Garage on 05/29/19 at 08:18:32 46554D50554353340 wrote:
BTW, yeah, we get it ray. You have a boat and a camper! Gee that's swell! |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by Serowbot on 05/29/19 at 09:15:34 Do we have free will?... Atheist: "I have free will because I have no choice" Religious: "Yes, I have free will because God lets me" ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by MnSpring on 05/29/19 at 09:32:16 66756D70756373140 wrote:
Wow, sounds like someone is really JEALOUS of your Boat & Camper. (Apparently because you worked hard for it, and it was not a 'Gimme/Gimme/Gimme) Wonder if they would be as JEALOUS, about a gun I purchased ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by WebsterMark on 05/29/19 at 09:41:11 If I put certain ingredients in the right quantities, in a certain shape, put them in the oven at a certain temperature for a certain length of time, I will get the same results, cookies. The ingredients have no free will. They respond based on their chemistry and heat. Even before I start cooking, I know the outcome. If life is begun on a habitable planet, do the evolving life forms have freewill or are their thoughts, actions, emotions based solely on their chemical makeup? And if you were somehow capable of knowing, down to the atom, the makeup of every person and every circumstance they would face, would you know in advance what the outcome would be?....much like you know the outcome of the cookie even before you begin mixing the ingredients? |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/29/19 at 10:32:28 142621303726310E223128430 wrote:
Well Web, choices will always remain, until you take your last breath.... If a person chooses to stay out in the cold, homeless, then its a choice, but too, choices have consequences..... Freedom of no restrictions, or obligations, is freedom from those constraints, but in doing so, the cookie recipe has changed, maybe because of those choices they call freedom, leaves them low on sugar and flour....so, as we see evidenced here on this site, when you don't have all the necessities to present a well baked cookie, you just go with, more nuts ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/29/19 at 10:33:06 785B6645475C5B52350 wrote:
Wow, sounds like someone is really JEALOUS of your Boat & Camper. (Apparently because you worked hard for it, and it was not a 'Gimme/Gimme/Gimme) Wonder if they would be as JEALOUS, about a gun I purchased ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D[/quote] Maybe not the gun....but the holster ;) |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by MnSpring on 05/29/19 at 10:43:24 37243C21243222450 wrote:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D (I believe their are two here, that just won't get it !) |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by WebsterMark on 05/29/19 at 11:17:23 Well Web, choices will always remain, until you take your last breath.... If a person chooses to stay out in the cold, homeless, then its a choice, but too, choices have consequences..... But what if you only think you have a choice.....what if, like the cookie, a particular pattern of atoms and molecules results in a particular course of action when confronted with certain stimuli every time? Is God's omnipotence simply knowing the only possible reaction to each and every interaction? |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/29/19 at 15:27:15 0D3F38292E3F28173B28315A0 wrote:
Knowing, and interfering, is two distinct actions. I do not believe God makes it a habit to interfere in "natural law" as it would create a paradox of sorts. Lets look at Jesus's sweating blood before his Crucifixion..... Even on the cross He seemed to not see the truth of the Trinity, yet we know by testimony that the Spirit was observed landing on folks. If I knew in advance that my actions would indeed result in a certain outcome, then I ask, who needs faith? As a person, ALL my energy would then be directed at my wants, needs, desires, as would every other thinking person, that is the natural laws instincts at work..... It gets heavy.....trying to wrap a understanding around things that are so far above our ability to understand and grasp.... HEY....lets just go back to camping or fishing ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/29/19 at 17:35:56 4C6F527173686F66010 wrote:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D (I believe their are two here, that just won't get it !)[/quote] Hale-Bopp, loading on launch pad 3, in 10 minutes...... ;) |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by WebsterMark on 05/31/19 at 05:11:18 If I knew in advance that my actions would indeed result in a certain outcome, then I ask, who needs faith? That's the point, you don't know. Another way to look at it. Watch the same movie twice or better yet, read a historical book twice. As the plot unfolds the first time, it's all new to you. The character's free will decisions lead to unknown and unforeseen ramifications. Watch it or read it a second time; the free will enjoyed by the characters still exist for them, but not for you. From your perspective, they will make the same decisions over and over again, even if it leads them to harm or death. |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/31/19 at 08:11:51 546661707766714E627168030 wrote:
Not sure if that works, as in effect, they are dead to change, which means free will is not a option..... But your point about looking at something again, and your perception changes, I understand, that is because your "input" has changed....hopefully we call it knowledge and thus, wisdom, so you now have the capacity to see it more effectively. |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by Serowbot on 05/31/19 at 08:16:55 Quantum and multiverse theory are debating this. Don't know if they'll be able to prove it, ever. Do we really want to know?... :-/ |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by WebsterMark on 05/31/19 at 08:32:49 Christianity theology would say no, we can't know. Consider all the implications of The Tower of Babel. The key phrase is when it's said: "If by working together they can do this, there's nothing they can't accomplish.". "They" being humans. There's nothing beyond our reach. This tells me we could eventually 'discover' how to view the spiritual dimension swirling around us. |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/31/19 at 08:45:57 3026312C34212C37430 wrote:
It depends on the motivation, which is a sense, is like separating good from evil. If I use to to capitalize upon others, then no. If, however, I use it to become a better me, then yes..... Now the circle argument begins, who decides what is better? ;D |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/31/19 at 08:50:18 053730212637201F332039520 wrote:
I agree with that. We can't know, for it would remove the one factor needed to prove allegiance, and that is faith....... Even a man blind since birth, can testify to fact a sun exist, and he has never, ever, seen it...... And furthermore, no one would doubt him, even though we know he can't possible know...... :-? |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by Serowbot on 05/31/19 at 10:32:51 Horsepucky... Sight is not out only sense,... and spirituality has no sense. Just saying profound sounding BS don't make you a sage. What Christian theology has to say about the nature of existence is "don't ask"... Does the sun and the planets still rotate around the earth?... ;D |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/31/19 at 10:44:49 Don't ask.....????? Don't ask what? Can you explain that more? |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by WebsterMark on 05/31/19 at 10:48:04 What Christian theology has to say about the nature of existence is "don't ask" That's what you think it says but I don't know anyone who says that" Every one I know asks that question and more. Get your head out of your a.....I mean the 13th century.... |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by MnSpring on 05/31/19 at 10:53:22 6E786F726A7F72691D0 wrote:
I think the 'ghost buster/Paranormal types may have a comment on that. |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 05/31/19 at 11:41:17 615354454253447B57445D360 wrote:
I know a guy who has a degree from Berkeley in Political Sciences... We were talking about this subject of God, believing, etc..... His final say on the matter was this: "I can decide later, if I need it, then." I'm sorry, you can not have dialogue with that type of thinking..... |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by Serowbot on 05/31/19 at 12:39:46 427077666170675874677E150 wrote:
It is the theist head that's in the 13th century... Have you ever heard of cutting edge science?... Okay,.... ever heard of cutting edge Christianity?... ;D |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by WebsterMark on 06/01/19 at 04:37:38 Okay,.... ever heard of cutting edge Christianity?... As a matter of fact, yes. You're hung up on your old personal experiences from the past and a filter that only shows you what you want to see like the Ark flooding story. Everyone I know constantly questions and struggles with reconciling faith and science. There's nothing wrong with that conflict, in fact it's encouraged. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 06/01/19 at 07:30:37 162423323524330C20332A410 wrote:
Absolutely........ Folks judge others based on their failings, not so much on their attempting, as that was their desire to justify what they want to believe in the first place..... Could be the results of mass commercialization of product advertising, being rooted deep into our social fabric...... A toxin from capitalism induced into our everyday thoughts. Buy my mousetrap because the others fail. ;) |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by Serowbot on 06/01/19 at 07:37:11 142621303726310E223128430 wrote:
Yes,.. I'm sure they do... |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by LANCER on 06/01/19 at 08:29:19 What Christian theology has to say about the nature of existence is "don't ask" Don't ask ? .... Where ? By who ? All throughout the Bible God constantly encourages us to seek Him constantly. The Bible is the very and only source man has for learning who God is and how we are to respond to Him. Don't ask ? ? That is the thought of someone who does not want to know him. It is only an excuse for trying to ignore Him. The problem is, that is impossible. We live in the universe HE created and controls. If you live in one of the many areas of our country that is flooding right now, can you ignore the water ? Nope. |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 06/01/19 at 08:54:43 We talked about free will..... So, let's talk about willfulness Believers share the word because we want, instructed, by our Shepherd to find His lost sheep. His love, is our love manifest, and we heed naturally because its the greatest design ever at winning, and producing, true results based on love, not manipulation to gain power and control, over others, by submission of that power By Pastor J.D. Shortly after he cleared the temple square with a whip, Jesus told a parable about a landowner who planted a vineyard and left it in the care of tenant farmers. When harvest came, the landowner sent a group of servants to the vineyard to collect the fruit. Instead of handing over the crop, the tenants decided to beat and kill the servants, and when the landowner sent a second group, they did the same thing to them. Finally the landowner sent his own son, whom the tenants killed for his inheritance. We may be too used to parables to see just how absurd this story is. It’s crazy that the landowner would send his own son after the fate of the first two groups. It’s even crazier that the tenants would be stupid enough to kill the son of a wealthy man with plenty of resources. After all, if the landowner was rich enough to have that many servants, you better believe he’s rich enough to hire a security force to deal with a small band of violent rebels. But here’s the point: The tenants in this parable didn’t murder the son because they were confused about who he was. They hated him because he challenged their ownership of the field (Matthew 21:38). By this point in Jesus’ life, the religious leaders had convinced themselves that Jesus was dangerous and needed to be killed. But in telling this story, Jesus pulls back the veil on their hearts and shows that, like the tenants, theirs was rejection not of ignorance but of willfulness. In the book of Romans, Paul says that a great deal of our behavior can only be explained in terms emotional and spiritual repression—that underneath everything else, what we repress most is a fundamental hatred of God himself. The closer God gets to “our field,” the more we respond with a visceral spirit of territorial anger. Romans 8:7 says that our sinful heart has an inward hostility toward God: “The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so” (NIV). Our natural mind can’t submit to God. It possesses a deep hostility to his authority and glory. But there is a way out of this repression. When we repent, we recognize and confess our hostility, pleading with God to change it. This, by the way, is how you know that the Holy Spirit is opening your eyes. It takes the Holy Spirit to see that sin is not just a violation of rules but a whole attitude of resentment toward Christ’s claim over your life. The sign that the Holy Spirit is working in you is that sin feels personal between you and God. It’s not just frustration at having messed up; it’s not just a feeling of shame because you haven’t kept the rules. Sin breaks the heart of God, and when the Spirit of God is in you, sin breaks your heart, too. Sin breaks the heart of God, and when the Spirit of God is in you, sin breaks your heart, too. When the famous atheist Richard Dawkins was asked, “Is there anything God could do to get you to believe in him?” he said, “No. If God showed up in the room, I would want to know what sort of psychological or naturalistic explanation is going on here.” With that statement, he went from atheism to anti-theism—a refusal to even consider the evidence. Paul would say that refusal springs from a hatred of God. Aldous Huxley, the philosopher and author of Brave New World (and also the guy who coined the term “agnostic”) said, “I had motives for not wanting the world to have a meaning …. For myself, as, no doubt, for most of my contemporaries, the philosophy of meaningless was essentially an instrument of liberation … from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality of Christianity because it interfered with our sexual freedom. There was one admirably simple method of justifying ourselves: [agnosticism].” What separates Huxley from most agnostics is his candor. For many people today, their cause of unbelief is not from lack of evidence. It’s a heart problem. Jesus taught, not just in this parable but all throughout his ministry, that if you have the right posture of heart, then the truth about him will be evident to see. Those who choose not to believe have to ask if their unbelief is really as intellectual as they maintain. It saddens many to see some only relish living their lives to scorn, belittle, shame, others, thinking by doing so, that they somehow will feel, what, vindicated, better, superior? How does self worth, feeling good, joy, happy, come at proving others wrong through punitive motivation? How can that sustain and deliver anyone to a nirvana? |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by Serowbot on 06/01/19 at 09:10:32 5C4F574A4F59492E0 wrote:
Oh, the irony.... ::) |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 06/01/19 at 09:30:58 You judge the actions of people, and assign it to God. Why so much energy you spend on something that makes no difference to you anyway? I could care less if Winnie the Pooh is a liberal or conservative, gay or straight, or rides a harley or suzuki. No one is making you get on your knees and pray. Yes, oh the irony, driven by what, fear of possibility, or a fetish for BIG handed men? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Go have a great day....laugh, be happy, you will die nevertheless, that's a fact....might as well smile and enjoy it while your heart still beats! |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by Serowbot on 06/01/19 at 09:37:43 2D3E263B3E28385F0 wrote:
Your true nature is showing... |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 06/01/19 at 11:31:23 Why thank you buddy....... As Web shared, believers are on a constant journey of enlightenment, searching understanding, as the door to our heart, mind, and soul must be opened by our selves, willingly..... Tho lacking knowledge, other than the why we do, is the question that begs to be known by each one of us, who believe. The door is narrow, but on the other side..... The panorama immense, vast and wide, with no real end in sight, where we can travel and go, in that searching, with eyes of flesh..... Until the one who created me/us, calls us otherwise, to His will. I love you Bot for caring about me, and wanting to enlighten me, to how and what you see as the right way for mankind to live.... That is very sweet of you, thanks. I truly hope you can find a lasting peace within your self, that fills your being with what you hope for too! Blessings Bot, be well..... |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by Serowbot on 06/01/19 at 11:54:09 You need your meds adjusted... |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by thumperclone on 06/01/19 at 12:08:17 You have a boat and a camper! Gee that's swell! [/quote] yes it' part of christen dogma to show off ones earthly possessions to prove they are truly blessed |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by LANCER on 06/01/19 at 14:35:56 Is it "Showing off" to be thankful for what God gave you ? Are they really trying to "Prove" they are blessed, or just happy & full of joy ? You stated: "part of Christian dogma to show off ones earthly possessions to prove they are truly blessed". You are judging the intent of the heart here. You would have to KNOW the intent of their heart to be able to pronounce that judgement. Do you know the intent of their heart ? God says that HE and the person are the only ones who know the intent of their heart. How many folks on this site announce when they get a new bike ? Is that the sin of Pride they are showing or just "Hey, look what I was able to get ?" I don't think so in vast majority of cases, they are just happy. I rejoice when anyone is blessed by God, regardless of who the are. We all are blessed at times, and we all also have trials and things with which we have to deal. It is part of being in this world. God says HE sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. Sometimes there is too much and we have floods, as are many states right now. Do you have a relationship with God ? Have you ask Him if He is real ? If so, did you ask Him to reveal Himself to you so you can KNOW. HE WILL respond to you if you ask Him from your heart honestly. |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by thumperclone on 06/01/19 at 15:01:13 GOD and mammon is the point I'm finished here... |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 06/01/19 at 15:48:07 5F435E465B4E59484744454E2B0 wrote:
See, SEE... God does answer prayers ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by raydawg on 06/01/19 at 15:56:15 7479767B7D6A2A2F180 wrote:
Thank you buddy :) If you recall when I posted this, things were getting heated, calls for calm, getting along, even a declaration about how we are guest in another man's domain, where he is trying to use this business venture to support his family, etc..... and need to consider that before our own needs first.... My intent was to bring a wee bit levity to the board, as who doesn't like camping or fishing? I guess I coulda used the question: Ginger or Maryann? ;D ;D :-* Sad, that folks can't get past their own bias, hate, anger, the very thing they, er....hate in others :-? Blessings buddy, hope the weather and wife are good! :) |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by LANCER on 06/02/19 at 13:08:03 The weather today is great but for the next 10 days thunderstorms are forecast nearly every day but thankfully not like the recent deluge. Paula is doing great following surgery with improvement every day. Be blessed. I did not see the beginning of this thread, just dropped by for a quick look around and ended up commenting. It happens on occasion. [ch128513] |
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Title: Re: We ALL have a choice...... Post by Serowbot on 06/02/19 at 16:21:43 6A67686563743431060 wrote:
Seriously?... ;D |
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