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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Blue Header /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1559102549 Message started by SoC on 05/28/19 at 21:02:28 |
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Title: Blue Header Post by SoC on 05/28/19 at 21:02:28 What do those who know think. There is a 2014 Savage for sale near me with 44 miles on the clock, do you think that's possible given the header looks like it does? If so how could that happen in so few miles? Story is, it has been sitting. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by BrokeAss on 05/28/19 at 21:15:30 They run really lean from the factory, and doesn't take much to blue that bend. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by Dave on 05/29/19 at 03:40:19 When I see a header that blue - I believe the owner starts the bike and lets it idle for long period of time. Some folks believe that letting the bike warm up before they go for a ride is good.....and they could also be starting the bike regularly during the winter to charge the battery and warm the engine up. When the bike is idling at a stand still there is no air flow over the header, and it can get very hot....especially if the idle speed is increased for the warm up. Riding in city traffic with lots of idle time can also contribute to blue pipes. If the owner let the bike idle for long periods of time while leaned over on the side stand.....it can damage the right side (exhaust) cam lobe. With only 44 miles on the bike - I seriously doubt if that blue came from riding in traffic.....it likely was started and idled frequently. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1447331708 |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by SoC on 05/29/19 at 08:02:43 Thanks for the info, The person selling it claims it was a barn find, some story about owner buying bike having never rode and having a mishap that spooked them enough to never ride again. Probably was started and idled periodically. I follow the start and ride theory, get on road asap, with little time for warm up. Even in winter when I take it out on warm day, start it, pull away and hit the limited access highway behind the shop for a 8 mile run to the end and turn around and back. That's enough to charge the battery, pump up some oil and blow some fresh gas through the carb. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by Dave on 05/29/19 at 08:07:02 If you doubt the 44 miles.....look at the tires. I would expect to see all of the little nubs still on the front tire, and the rear tire would likely still have most of them - maybe the nubs on the center of the rear tire would be worn a bit. If the price was right I would likely buy it, and pull the head cover off to inspect the cam/rockers and install a Versy head plug. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/29/19 at 09:53:21 Some sitting still and racking the gas will do that in under a minute. My chrome went from shiny ,bright new looking to about like that one day when I was trying to listen to the valves, before I adjusted them. I'd be concerned about the cam, but if it's cheap enough, I'd grab it. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by philthymike on 05/29/19 at 14:51:47 My Thumpy needs warm up time or I get grouchy throttle. But Thumpy tells me how much warm up is needed. Says when to turn off choke. Says when it’s time to ride. Ride your bikes enough and after awhile you just understand what they are saying. Regarding the blue, after putting new jets and tuning my blue went away on its own and turned gold. Then the rust started setting in. Then I wrapped the sucker. Now I could care less. Wrap the crap. Enjoy not caring. And enjoy the reduction in noise from header resonance. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by ohiomoto on 05/30/19 at 06:34:02 Thumpy should be able to fire up on full choke and then run down the road on half choke for a bit until it warms up. My bike never sits still on startup for more than 5 seconds. Even in temps below 40. Fire it up and ride it! |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by philthymike on 05/30/19 at 12:16:55 I get sputtery throttle response unless I give warmup time. That time varies greatly with temperature and humidity. On very nice days I can turn off choke right after firing up and be underway in less than 10 secs. Once the engine has run I don't need choke or warmup for the rest of the day. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by VortecCPI on 05/31/19 at 04:07:49 ALL properly-jetted IC engines require choke and warmup time until the engine comes up to operating temperature. My wife's bike requires full choke when cold followed by the two additional choke positions over the course of a minute or two depending on ambient air temperature. In the summer the entire choke cycle might take only a minute. In the fall or spring it will take longer. No matter what the ambient air temperature both bikes are left to idle for a minute or two once off choke. Until either engine comes up to operating temperature both are lean at part-throttle and this is normal. Same for all the dirt bikes. And autos with carbs. And boats with carbs. And... |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/19 at 11:36:00 If that's true, something is in need of correction. Even the crappiest lawnmower I've had didn't require that kinda pampering. I start it on cooler days with full choke and ride away. I drop the choke to first adjustment after a couple of miles, and then no choke in a couple more. Is the idle set high enough? That's only determinable once it's at full operating temperature. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by Dave on 05/31/19 at 12:02:37 0F362B2D3C3A1A0910590 wrote:
I had a Kawasaki Super Sherpa, and from the factory the jetting is so lean - that it took more than 5 minutes of idling and choke before you could even attempt to ride the bike. Everyone needed to do the "Dr. Jekyll" fix - which involved new jets and idle fuel screw adjustments. If you attempted to ride the bike before it was "ready" - the bike would just cough and die when you attempted to add any throttle. If your bike can't be started and ridden with light throttle application within a minute warmup - then it is on the ragged edge of being too lean on either the pilot jet or needle (main jet doesn't affect low throttle settings)........if you need to use a bit of choke for a mile or two that is OK - just don't forget to turn it off. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by philthymike on 05/31/19 at 12:33:42 Even my EFI equipped Ducati needs warm up time or futzy throttle response for the 1st couple miles. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by ohiomoto on 05/31/19 at 12:34:18 Funny thing is, most on here would argue I'm running lean with my 47 pilot and 147 main. I often ride my to work in sub 40-degree weather. I fire it up on full choke, immediately put it on half choke, put it into gear and go. After a mile or so, it's warm enough to run without any choke. I've done this every morning the weather allows me to commute to work for the past 3 years without issues. (I generally ride if temps are above 35 in the morning IF they will be above 50 for the ride home.) Maybe my bike isn't lean enough. LOL BTW, my header isn't blue either. ;) |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/19 at 13:53:37 AT those temperatures your " header" should be blue. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by VortecCPI on 05/31/19 at 15:24:06 495650574A4D7C4C7C44565A11230 wrote:
True but please note I wrote "Properly-jetted". Utility engines such as those found in lawnmowers do not have to meet the same EPA standards as motorcycles nor do they have to compete for MPG numbers. When I got my brand new 2019 Honda CRF230F it would not run unless it had been warmed up for about 10 minutes. If I shut it off and it sat for more than a few minutes it needed partial choke again. Now with proper jetting it only needs choke and warmup for a few minutes. In the old days we had systems such as EFE (Early Fuel Evaporation) and CCS (Controlled Combustion System) to help carbs and engines during warmup periods. If an engine comes off choke very fast and does not exhibit a lean condition during warmup it is jetted too rich. |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by Dave on 06/01/19 at 03:55:40 6E574A4C5D5B7B6871380 wrote:
I think there is some "room" for "opinion" about what "proper" jetting. An air/fuel ration of 14.7:1 is good for economy - the ratio for maximum power is around 12.5:1. An engine that is jetted within this range will run pretty smooth - and this spread is why a primitive carb can be made to run well........there is some wiggle room Some of the new engines are running far leaner than that to help reduce emissions and satisfy the EPA......and if these engines have carbs and chokes - they are engines that are really finicky and require long warmup. In my opinion these engines are legal in the eyes of the EPA - BUT - they are not jetted "properly. I agree with VorteCPI and any engine that needs to sit in the driveway and idle for 5-10 minutes before you can add throttle and ride away is not jetted properly and it needs some larger jets! There are "lean burn" engines that run fuel/air ratios as high as 65:1 - those do require fuel injection and computers to make them run properly....it would be impossible to get them to run with a carb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean-burn |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by VortecCPI on 06/01/19 at 05:41:39 We must also take into consideration other practical aspects. If we are trying to win a dyno war we can jet lean and mean but that will never work for daily duty. In many cases tuners jet rich, especially on the slow/pilot, (and/or needle) to assist in keeping the engine cool during high-load part-throttle conditions. This is especially true for air-cooled dirt bikes in the SW and Baja areas. Ambient air temperature and humidity also come into play and are even more critical as our engines are air-cooled and head temperatures vary wildly. There is no "right" or "proper" jetting that covers all circumstances. Even the idle mixture screw must be changed from summer to fall/spring. For my CRF230 about 1/2 turn in summer and about 1-1/2 turns in fall/spring. My wife's 2012 LS650 was so lean it was annoying to ride. Small throttle inputs resulted in little or no response from the engine so you had to use large inputs to manage wind and uphills. Now the carb responds to the smallest of inputs and it is a joy to ride. Adding the extra slide hole was the icing on the cake. So... Just to be clear... When I write "properly jetted" is simply means what works best for the current situation at the time. With a carbureted air-cooled engine jetting is nothing but a compromise... |
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Title: Re: Blue Header Post by SoC on 06/01/19 at 22:09:34 Guys, this has provided me with an overload of information. Much of it useful and informative. Thanks again to everyone who contributed. The main thing was, what to make of a bike with less thn 50 miles with a blued header like this? The significant point being that the bike was probably started and allowed to run regularly while sitting on the kickstand to keep it operatinal and to be aware of the consequentise of that. Again, Thanks to everyone. |
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