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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
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Message started by DavidOfMA on 05/25/19 at 07:44:57

Title: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by DavidOfMA on 05/25/19 at 07:44:57

Finally got my bike out this year and found that the brake light is stuck in the "on" position. Activating either the front or rear brakes does not unstick it. Anyone encounter this and know how to fix it? As the stealership around here now charges $105/hour, I'd rather do it myself.

2007 S40.

Thanks,
David

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by MidLifeRider on 05/25/19 at 08:15:59

Not an expert but I would first suspect the switches. You can disconnect the front brake right under the handle. If the brake light goes out there's your culprit. If not move to the rear brake switch. It's a plunger style switch. Make sure the plunger is returning when the brake is released. It may be stuck in the on position. It's located on the right hand side where the frame downtube meets the swingarm.

That's about all I can offer.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by DavidOfMA on 05/25/19 at 08:58:58

Thanks! I'll take a look.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by MidLifeRider on 05/25/19 at 10:33:41

Depending on how much you ride and road conditions, I can picture the rear switch getting bombarded with road spray and debris preventing it from returning to the off position.

Good luck!

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" posit
Post by batman on 05/25/19 at 10:48:19

I'll bet my bottom dollar ,you need to adjust the rear brake switch , you just pull the switch upward and turn the nut upward until the brake light goes off , the only other thing would be if the rear brake pedal ( the shaft may need to be greased) is not fully returning, or the spring base is not in groove provided on the face of the brake cover plate or the shaft thru that plate that forces the shoes apart may need grease as well. All of this is just normal maintenance as described in a Clymer book.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" posit
Post by DavidOfMA on 05/25/19 at 19:02:52

I really hate sounding like the mechanical idiot I seem to have turned into, but where exactly is the rear brake light switch, relative to either the brake end of the cable or the front brake pedal?

Looking through Chapter 3 of the Clymer manual, and then the section on brakes toward the back of the book, has so far not enlightened me, and I can't locate it based on the pic in the earlier response to my query.

Thanks,
David

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" posit
Post by batman on 05/25/19 at 19:57:15

It's a smaller cable connected to the same pin the rear brake cable is , at the back of the pedal , you can trace it back to the switch from there.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by MidLifeRider on 05/25/19 at 20:00:09

Right side about 4" back from swingarm connection, just above swingarm.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/19 at 22:17:07

Look for the I.B.F. spring.
That's
Itty Bitty Fukkin spring.
Step on the brake pedal.
And watch the spring get longer.

But, Justin Case, you can Prove where the problem is, by disconnecting a wire from the front brake switch.

Pull a wire up front
Lights go off
It's not the rear switch.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by DavidOfMA on 05/26/19 at 12:14:00

Okay, thanks. Found the switch, pushed on the brake pedal, and there's no spring movement. Busted cable or stuck switch or something else?

David

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by MidLifeRider on 05/26/19 at 20:39:13

Let's back up to my first post.

Did you check the front brake light switch first? It's easier to check. If you haven't then do so and reply back with what happened.

Under the front brake lever, there is a small black switch with two wires. Disconnect them and check brake light. Do this before we move on to the rear.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" posit
Post by DavidOfMA on 05/27/19 at 16:43:57

I disconnected the front brake switch, and the brake light was still on. Then I manually pushed the rear switch plunger in most of the way with a screwdriver, and the light went off. When I released the plunger and it went back to it's extended position, the light went back on again.

So, the problem appears to be with the operation of the rear brake light switch. What's stuck or broken, and how do I fix it?

I am figuring that the cable that operates the switch is broken, stuck, or unhinged, but as I don't have an easy way to lift the bike up to see under there, I'm not sure what I'm looking for.

Gratefully,
David

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/27/19 at 17:36:30

When I released the plunger and it went back to it's extended position, the light went back on again.

Without studying mine, I'm gonna say
The spring could be hung lower so it doesn't pull the switch so hard
Or
Adjust the body of the switch toward the spring.
You've located the problem, so, you're on your way to winning!

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by DavidOfMA on 05/27/19 at 17:56:21

It doesn't look to me as if either of those will solve the problem. The spring is in an almost completely compressed position when the switch is ON, and when I pushed the plunger in manually, the spring lengthens by about 1/4" before the switch goes OFF.

I'm sure the solution is obvious to someone who knows how the switch is activated/deactivated, but it's not to me.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by batman on 05/27/19 at 21:53:52

Then move the nut upward lowering the body of the switch, until the spring is completely compressed, would be logical ?

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by batman on 05/27/19 at 21:56:54

Then move the nut upward lowering the body of the switch, until the spring is completely compressed, would be logical ?

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by MidLifeRider on 05/28/19 at 06:58:56

Ok, now you narrowed it down to the rear switch.

Watch these to check adjustment of the switch and to make sure it's seated properly.

Start at 4:32 mark on this video

https://youtu.be/j5gT02TVCro

Another

https://youtu.be/j5gT02TVCro

If the switch is adjusted correctly then my next step would be to check the cable to make sure it isn't stuck in the "on" position. Shine a flashlight on the spring. One end attached to the plunger and the other is attached to the cable. Depress the brake pedal and watch the end of the cable. If it doesn't pull in the spring, then the cable is frrozen in the casing due to corrosion. Given the age of your bike and the position of that cable, it is a likely scenario.

Be patient we'll get it figured out.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" posit
Post by DavidOfMA on 05/28/19 at 07:02:57

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. The spring has to be lengthened by about 1/4 inch for the plunger to be far enough in so the brake light goes off. The compressed spring holds it in the "on" position, so further compressing it won't fix the problem.

Either the switch has some kind of internal spring that's busted, or there's a mechanism that pulls on the rear of the switch to keep the plunger in, and that mechanism isn't working.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by MidLifeRider on 05/28/19 at 08:34:38

If you take the spring off the cable and the plunger moves in and out with no resistance, then you may be correct and a new switch is in order.

And you said you weren't mechanically inclined. Sounds like you have skills after all.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" posit
Post by DavidOfMA on 05/28/19 at 19:20:28

Rained all day here (and no garage), so I didn't have a chance to check out your suggestions. I suspect the cable, as I didn't see any movement of the spring when I pressed on the rear brake, but I'll see what happens if I unhook the spring.

I did watch that first video earlier but at the time I couldn't find the switch. Now it makes more sense.

You are saying that the plunger should normally be in the fully retracted position, right? What should the spring do when the switch/cable system is operating normally?

In any case, I'll report back once it stops raining and I have a little time to play with it.

Actually, I am mechanically inclined and used to be good with bikes and cars in my youth. I once, for instance, seized a piston on a Yamaha 200, broke it free, drove 1000 miles, and then took the bike apart in a friend of a friend's basement, got the cylinders bored out and new pistons, and put it back together again and rode another 1500 miles back home.

Compared to you guys, I'm still a dunce, but on this bike, I have managed to change out the cam chain adjuster, permanently fix the backfiring problem, and replace the rusted-out exhaust. But I don't have the ability to visualize how things are supposed to work, anymore, and seem to need a lot of visual guidance in order to get things done.

Which is a long-winded way of saying, thanks for your help!

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by MidLifeRider on 05/31/19 at 05:15:06

"I really hate sounding like the mechanical idiot"

Sorry if I misinterpreted that statement as you saying you weren't mechanically inclined. Based on your last post, you obviously are and probably have more experience than me.

"You are saying that the plunger should normally be in the fully retracted position, right? What should the spring do when the switch/cable system is operating normally?"

Yes, the plunger should retract into the switch body. In my bike the plunger is exposed approximately 5/16" at rest. When activated it extends an additional 5/16". At rest, the spring should have a little tension on it showing slight gaps between the coils. If the spring isn't stretching when you press the pedal, the I would suspect the cable too.

Sounds like you pretty much have it worked out.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by DavidOfMA on 05/31/19 at 06:09:29

Thanks. That pretty much confirms the diagnosis as a stuck cable.

I appreciate all your help.

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" posit
Post by batman on 05/31/19 at 12:25:08

Why do you think the line between the pedal and the switch contains a spring at all? It's there to allow you to "cover" the brake pedal ( place your foot on it, and slightly depress it , to prepare to stop or slow if need be ,without actually activating the tail lamp's stop filament .You have two ways to deal with it ,you can lower the switch , allowing it to retract the 1/4 inch it needs to go off , or loosen the nut on the end of brake cable to allow the pedal to rise slightly making the cable have slightly less tension again allowing the switch to retract and the light to go off . Perhaps it's time to go out to the bike and actually try something. If that fails perhaps ,because your bike sits out you may try greasing the back of the brake pedal and the cables as that is standard maintenance (every 12 months/4,000 miles .

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" position
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/19 at 14:06:30

My grandma had a souvenir ashtray,
It said

Don't just Do Something
STAND THERE...

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" posit
Post by DavidOfMA on 05/31/19 at 19:46:02

Thanks for your advice, batman. However, I'm sure the problem is the cable.

I checked the front switch and determined that it was not the problem. I checked the rear switch and determined that it worked properly. I checked the cable and determined that nothing moved along the parts of it that I could reach when I depressed the brake, no matter how hard I depressed it. I sprayed penetrating oil onto everything I could reach and tried again the next day. No movement at all. I concluded that the cable was frozen in the "on" position, which is why the spring isn't moving and the switch is always on.

I'd rather replace a 12-year-old, corroded cable than try to un-stick it, so I'll do that when I have a replacement cable, which I've ordered. I also try to disassemble only what I need to, as I've broken bolts on this bike before, despite repeated applications of penetrating oil, heat, and cold.

Thank you all for your help. As I mentioned, I'm somewhat spatially challenged, in terms of visualizing, and the photos, videos, and explanations really helped me understand how this was supposed to work, and then to determine what wasn't working right.

David

57544158545B010D350 wrote:

Title: Re: Brake lights stuck in the "on" posit
Post by batman on 05/31/19 at 22:43:32

Well you really should just remove the two large 17mm nuts on the long bolts that hold the heat shield on right side of the bike that protects your shoe when it's on the peg, than slip off the plate and twist it over, perhaps the cables are just hung up, or the return spring isn't positioned to raise the brake pedal fully when it's released. The end of the spring needs to be pushed /tucked above the through bolt when replacing the plate , to force the pedal to return .