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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensation? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1558725518 Message started by philthymike on 05/24/19 at 12:18:38 |
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Title: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensation? Post by philthymike on 05/24/19 at 12:18:38 http://https://scd.france24.com/en/files/imagecache/rfi_16x9_1024_578/article/image/poland_9.jpg Read this before making up your minds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939–1945) Now read this... https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/05/rethinking_restitution_a_case_for_jewish_dignity.html Now this... https://www.newsweek.com/poland-ww2-stolen-property-compensation-restitution-jews-447-1433764 This is likely an unpopular perspective... http://pressmania.pl/an-open-letter-to-the-us-ambassador-in-poland-mrs-georgette-mosbacher/ I agree with the Polish protester with the sign that reads, “USA, Practice 447 at home. Return stolen lands to the descendants of native tribes.” Note: I couldn't link the picture of him because the internet censors or actively cracking down on all content from the POV of Polish citizens. So the video of this has been blocked. I have no personal disinclinations towards Jewish people but I am half Polish and that half of me says this time the Jews are barking up the wrong tree. Poland is the last place they should be panhandling for guilt money IMO. As for Act 447, way to go Trump. we really need more dissent, protests and bad international relations. Like we need a hole in our heads. Why does the US have to force other countries to pay Jewish people money for the Holocaust? I mean isn't this technically their problem? Or am I being naive? |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by Eegore on 05/24/19 at 12:25:20 When I first saw the plans for the Holocaust Museum in DC the first thing that came to mind was a Slavery Museum in Germany, and a Native American genocide museum in Poland. |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by philthymike on 05/24/19 at 12:55:19 What sickens me to no end is the pitting of these two victims of ethnic cleansing against each other and the inevitable argument of who suffered more. And now the Western press is painting Poland up as anti-semitic holocaust deniers. Shame on them. Just when you think the world can't sink any lower... Here's some more cheerful history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_occupied_Poland_during_World_War_II |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by pg on 05/24/19 at 13:40:51 It is beyond belief that anyone can any inclination that Poland owes anyone anything. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by philthymike on 05/24/19 at 13:58:40 He said Jewish people have received more than $35 billion in war compensation from Germany, while the Poles have received less than $2 billion, adding that “this all shows that this is about money. https://www.apnews.com/c6e45441ab584043a8f6cca1b82941c3 ANd regarding the Nazi collaborator comment... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szebnie_concentration_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo_(concentration_camp) The nerve of people... |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by pg on 05/24/19 at 14:01:16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by philthymike on 05/24/19 at 15:44:50 445355595646340 wrote:
Exactly. The Poles and the Jews were only part of the master plan. They were the only part of the plan that was actually realized with any partial success. Imagine the world now if occupied France was treated like Poland was with the same brutality and sadistic efficiency. History aside what about tomorrow? If Poland was to pay 300 billion to Israel then who’s next? Are the rest of WWII German occupied countries also responsible for reparations to holocaust survivors? The rest of these countries? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-occupied_Europe In all fairness.... What about the South American countries that harbored Nazi fugitives? |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by philthymike on 05/26/19 at 17:35:36 https://m.jpost.com/Diaspora/Quarter-of-Israels-Holocaust-survivors-living-in-poverty-588381 Moreover, although Germany pays retribution to survivors, those who moved to Israel after 1953 do not receive these benefits, because the agreement that was signed between Israel and Germany was in 1952, and the Israeli government decided to compensate only those who moved to Israel prior to 1953 when payments began. And..... Asked about why these survivors have slipped through the cracks, she said that there are several factors that contribute to their situation – including the fact that survivors just don’t know about their benefits and what they’re entitled to, what forms to fill out, how to fill out the forms, or where to hand them in. She also pointed out that “forms to the Germans need to be in German or English.” Um, Google Translate? Honestly though if the survivors of the holocaust in Israel are not getting help from their own government for such easily solved problems how is more money going to help? It seems to me these people aren’t even being given any of the billions already paid by Germany all these years. Yet somehow 300 billion dollars from Poland will get to these poor people who IMO are being victimized again by their own people. WTF? Reparations are bullcrap. Whether holocaust or slavery or whatever. It’s all a humongous scam. Don’t believe the hype. |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by WebsterMark on 05/27/19 at 04:59:10 Has there ever been a situation where reparations were paid and there was a provable study showing the cash healed the old wounds? |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by philthymike on 05/27/19 at 07:01:04 That’s a good question. None that I’m aware of. Was there ever a situation where the victims were told to pay reparations to other victims? If so I wonder how well that played out. |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by Ed L. on 05/27/19 at 08:56:42 https://stopacthr1226.org/why-it-is-important-to-stop-the-acts-s447-and-hr1226/ Here's my take on it. |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by philthymike on 05/27/19 at 09:44:02 Excellent article! Good find Ed L! If I read it correctly it essentially a case of what is usually attributed to Neo Nazi groups - revisionist history. But coming from those who are usually against such a thing. Wow! And how the president signed off on such an act is shocking considering the underhanded manner in which it bypasses normal voting procedures. It truly is nothing more than simply greedy extortion. For the benefit of those who’ve already been compensated an staggeringly enormous amount of money already. This is an outrage! |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by philthymike on 05/28/19 at 19:32:58 Now Poles are being attacked by Twitter. https://stopacts447.org/a-massive-attack-on-twitter-accounts-of-polish-diaspora-organizations/ Because the people of Poland haven’t been attacked enough... |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by Ed L. on 05/29/19 at 11:39:08 Interesting read about the accounts getting suspended, it makes me wonder whom or what organizations are behind it. Seems that once something gets out to the echo chamber of the internet it will never go away. :( |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by philthymike on 05/29/19 at 12:23:49 Not only that but it literally gets echoed over and over and over. Social media has been trying to paint a right wing extremist slant on this scenario so if you search “act 447 protest” the results bring up dozens of news stories with the words “hard right Polish protestors etc.” Then if you read these stories it’s clearly the same story written by the same writers over and over and over. They’re working overtime to put a spin on this that makes the average Polish or Polish/American is a ultra right wing antisemitic hate monger. It’s truly pathetic and while the internet is spammed with this nonsense the other hand is restricting the free speech of the people who are against the Act. Even the Jewish holocaust survivors who’ve spoken out against it themselves. I read somewhere that many of them think attacking Poland like this is wrong. Now that stuff doesn’t show up anymore... |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by pg on 05/29/19 at 14:45:06 796160657D61706460626C090 wrote:
No one had it worse than the Poles in the western world during the 20th century, and no one gives a darn now. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by T And T Garage on 05/29/19 at 17:02:17 6077717D7262100 wrote:
No one had it worse than the Poles in the western world during the 20th century, and no one gives a darn now. Best regards,[/quote] Seriously? Tell that to the Irish or the Native Americans. |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by pg on 05/29/19 at 17:17:38 667877767B667D60120 wrote:
No one had it worse than the Poles in the western world during the 20th century, and no one gives a darn now. Best regards,[/quote] Seriously? Tell that to the Irish or the Native Americans. [/quote] The atrocities committed to Native Americans occurred prior to 20th century. Poland was occupied by Prussia (Germany) till WWI. They had their freedom till WWII. Hitler established the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost. The plan was to exterminate around 85% (over 20 million) of ethnically Polish citizens of Poland, with the remaining 15% to be used as slaves. Poland lost 1of4 or 1of5 of citizens in WWII. After the war they were occupied by the Soviet Union for 45 years where the atrocities continued. Further, the Poles who escaped and came to America were the target of poor humor for decades. The Ukranians also suffered a similar fate. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by pg on 05/29/19 at 17:28:08 657B747578657E63110 wrote:
See if you can figure this one out. Chi hatuk anapoli chatah ousi. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by T And T Garage on 05/29/19 at 17:30:24 1205030F0010620 wrote:
See if you can figure this one out. Chi hatuk anapoli chatah ousi. Best regards,[/quote] Nope. What does it mean? |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by pg on 05/29/19 at 17:34:27 I can speak a dialect of a Native American tribe. Yes I'm bilingual and I have great understanding of their history. How about that.... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by T And T Garage on 05/29/19 at 17:38:05 352224282737450 wrote:
Gee, that's cool! If you know that, then you should know some of what happened to the Native Americans in the late 19th and early 20th century, don't you? Further, during that same time, Irish immigrants to the US were considered sub-human. I have a great understanding of history. How about that? |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by pg on 05/29/19 at 17:48:21 5A444B4A475A415C2E0 wrote:
Gee, that's cool! If you know that, then you should know some of what happened to the Native Americans in the early 20th century, don't you? Further, during that same time, Irish immigrants to the US were considered sub-human. I have a great understanding of history. How about that? [/quote] Back to the thread topic, do you believe any group had it worse than Poland in the 20th century? Please refer to my post of what they endured. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by T And T Garage on 05/29/19 at 17:50:44 647375797666140 wrote:
Gee, that's cool! If you know that, then you should know some of what happened to the Native Americans in the early 20th century, don't you? Further, during that same time, Irish immigrants to the US were considered sub-human. I have a great understanding of history. How about that? [/quote] Back to the thread topic, do you believe any group had it worse than Poland in the 20th century? Please refer to my post of what they endured. Best regards, [/quote] Looking at the post again, I'll concede. Poles had it bad in the 20th century. I can see now that my frame of reference was only in the late 19th century and in the Americas. |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by WebsterMark on 05/30/19 at 08:43:23 734146575041566945564F240 wrote:
I'll ask again, does anyone know of a situation where reparations made an overall positive impact on relations between two or more parties where one of those parties had been wronged in the past? |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by philthymike on 05/30/19 at 12:27:51 I'll ask again too. Should Poland be forced to pay reparation for the survivors of the holocaust they suffered through alongside the Jews? Especially considering Polish citizens were the only ones actually fighting against the Nazi's instead of rolling over like so many other occupied countries did. |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by WebsterMark on 05/30/19 at 14:33:52 Hell no. |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by Eegore on 05/31/19 at 05:39:48 "Back to the thread topic, do you believe any group had it worse than Poland in the 20th century?" Depends on if we want to talk total numbers, or percentages of loss. Poland lost about 18-20% of it's population in WWII unless I am mistaken. About half of all Armenians died during the Ottoman Empire genocides in Turkey alone. 100% of Cambodian Viets died in Cambodia, half of Chinese Cham during Pol Pot and that's a portion of total murders. Rwanda genocide 70% of Tutsis killed. 40% of Congo's Pygmy killed. I've seen this first hand. Myanmar, right now has murdered over 40,000 Rohingya, I don't know the percentage. |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by philthymike on 05/31/19 at 13:32:33 4E7C7B6A6D7C6B54786B72190 wrote:
Thank you! |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/19 at 14:01:57 6040424A5740250 wrote:
Given that understanding, that doesn't erase the wrong done to the Polish. Even making the statement that Nobody had it worse than the Polish Statistically incorrect, which your post appears to have done, doesn't diminish the horrors visited on the Polish. Mankind is able to visit atrocities on others with enthusiasm and efficiency. Sometimes they are even able to convince certain people it's an act of Humanitarian Intervention... |
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Title: Re: Act 447: Should Poland pay Holocaust compensat Post by Eegore on 05/31/19 at 14:21:49 "Given that understanding, that doesn't erase the wrong done to the Polish." I agree. I was only answering the question posed as it was posed. |
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