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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1557354803 Message started by T And T Garage on 05/08/19 at 15:33:23 |
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Title: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 05/08/19 at 15:33:23 Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens 1 dead, 8 injured in shooting at Denver STEM school; 2 students in custody http://www.yahoo.com/news/colorado-school-shooting-updates-stem-102344188.html So sick of this. So fukcing sick of it..... |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 05/08/19 at 15:34:39 What's really pathetic is that the Onion has been using that headline for over 5 years..... yet here we are. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by pg on 05/08/19 at 18:47:30 Thinking of shootings, Chi-raq is off to a better than average start this year. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-homicides-data-tracker-htmlstory.html Best regards, |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 05/09/19 at 05:36:56 5A4D4B4748582A0 wrote:
That's true. And the per capita rates are still low. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/19 at 06:24:05 Armed teachers/ staff. See how that works. Gee, I wonder how they do it in Israel.... |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by MnSpring on 05/09/19 at 10:04:50 80% (+/-) of the Media, will drop ’news’ on this shooting, Because, the shooters were UL, FDS, DFI’s. Erickson’s Uniform: Black Cloths, and, shaggy, purple-streaked hair obscuring his face. Maya/Alex McKinney, The sheriff's office initially identified him as a boy and later said the suspect was a girl. “…A public defender assigned to McKinney says his client goes by Alec and uses male pronouns …” https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colorado-stem-school-highlands-ranch-shooting-suspects-devon-erickson-female-juvenile-law-enforcements-radar/ And before the resident, UL self righteous spout off. Don’t Care how Erickson dresses, or cuts/colors his hair. Don’t care if the girl, McKinney dress as a boy. DO Care, when they want to Shoot someone. Their political affiliation is most apparently UL. (UL = Ultra Liberal, Free, Free, Free Free, Free …..) Neither are old enough, to have learned the way things really work. So they only do what they have been taught. And, again, that is why this will just disappear. Cause it is another case of violent, UL’s |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 05/09/19 at 11:03:44 67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
This isn't Israel. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/19 at 11:24:23 Well, that can only mean one thing. It CAN'T work here, TOO. But, IIRC, weren't you pointing to all the Other Places where they have socialized health care and explaining how much WE should Do it Their Way? |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by MnSpring on 05/09/19 at 11:40:52 4A555354494E7F4F7F47555912200 wrote:
Don't forget, that was tt, AND Bot. Never mind, just typical UL saying; 'I can be hypocritical, but you can't' |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by MnSpring on 05/09/19 at 12:03:46 706E61606D706B76040 wrote:
Is Israel, a, 'civilized', Country ? |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by Eegore on 05/09/19 at 12:26:57 Is Israel, a, 'civilized', Country ? Having been there multiple times, I would say yes. Most schools do not arm teachers, no matter what our politicians say or what picture-of-a-gun-carrying-teacher meme the internet provides us. I verified this with 3 phone calls today before having this reply entered. The difference however is I have never seen, nor any of my associates, (one who is a teacher), a school without an outer secure perimeter and a shoman or guard station. The idea that Israel "prevents" school shootings by arming staff is fundamentally flawed. It's an apples and oranges comparison of environment, culture, law, and availability of weapon type. Guns are very tightly controlled there. You have to have a license to carry in Israel and losing a weapon results in jail time. Soldiers and people licensed to carry have firearms. You have to be old enough 20 or 27 depending on military service, complete a background check, a physical evaluation and then re-register annually, also you are only allowed to have limited ammunition - it was 50 rounds when I was there. Many people do not get a license, the exact stats I can not reliably confirm. This is after the relaxed laws recently enacted. America as a constitutional right is viewed in Israel as a privilege given to those in real need of a firearm. Teachers, as a profession do not qualify under those current laws. My experience has been that explosives take the place of mass-shootings due to the unavailability of large-capacity weapons and ammunition. I am not saying arming staff in the US is not beneficial, I am saying comparing Israel is grasping at straws at best as almost nothing about the crime type, usage of weapon, geometry of physical environment, criminal type, culture, or laws are similar enough to make accurate comparisons. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 05/09/19 at 15:02:21 5A454344595E6F5F6F57454902300 wrote:
Yeah, socialized medicine would work here. But why do you automatically go to the extreme? Socialized medicine works in Sweden and it would work here. Does that mean we have to all start speaking Swedish? Don't be so foolish jog... |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by pg on 05/09/19 at 15:34:37 716E686F72754474447C6E62291B0 wrote:
They have nice walls, and they most certainly work! Best regards, |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by Eegore on 05/09/19 at 17:57:10 They have nice walls, and they most certainly work! They work for the intended purpose in that specific geographical area, the US Mexico border shares very little commonalities in wall structure and enforcement. Those walls are in a very different environment, are enforced by constant armed military personnel that also use smarter tech like drones, aircraft etc. not to mention trade embargos supported by Egypt against a much smaller area and penetration type. Other than the potential for the physical product to be the same comparing the environment of the West Bank and Gaza to the US Mexico Border is very weak. Those walls if enforced the same here would work. Use the military (change the laws here to allow it) not CBP, get Mexico to stop imports like concrete and lumber to other South American countries, by using their military and remove the availability of Mexican citizens to get it without license. The whole economic and political structure would need to change to get our walls to work like Israel's. One thing for sure is they do not operate under the delusion, due to experience, that walls work without very active maintenance and enforcement. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/19 at 18:58:16 7D636C6D607D667B090 wrote:
Yeah, socialized medicine would work here. But why do you automatically go to the extreme? Socialized medicine works in Sweden and it would work here. Does that mean we have to all start speaking Swedish? Don't be so foolish jog...[/quote] We're not Sweden. I made a point by showing you that what you call justification changes when you need it to. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 05/09/19 at 20:43:34 716E686F72754474447C6E62291B0 wrote:
Yeah, socialized medicine would work here. But why do you automatically go to the extreme? Socialized medicine works in Sweden and it would work here. Does that mean we have to all start speaking Swedish? Don't be so foolish jog...[/quote] We're not Sweden. And we're not Israel either. That doesn't mean we can learn from some of what they do. You go to extremes to try and prove a point - not gonna work. I made a point by showing you that what you call justification changes when you need it to. [/quote] |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/19 at 23:22:29 Let teachers carry. It's simple to secure a place. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by Eegore on 05/10/19 at 05:34:44 Arming staff while hardening the environment does not secure it by definition. Someone can still compromise the environment but armed teachers could reduce the timeframe of compromise. As discussed multiple times here, implementation is a large part of the problem. Staff selection, funding, legal protections, training are all part of the problem. In most if not all places a school board can not just say "arm the teachers" then put out a bin of Glocks and ammunition and solve school shootings the next day. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/19 at 06:13:26 You're serious? You think you've captured the essence of my point after all the times I've explained it? Look at Florida. These laws that illegally infringe on the RIGHTS of teachers to be able to defend themselves are slowly changing. It straight up pisses me off for you to act like I don't know laws will need to be changed. School districts exist where teachers are armed. Nobody MAKES anyone carry. It's just tiresome trying to get cerTTain people to grasp the obvious. And you.. Of COURSE IT WON'T BE UNASSAILABLE, It just won't be a Legally created KILL ZONE, So, talk to me like I'm an idiot some more. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by Eegore on 05/10/19 at 06:25:55 "So, talk to me like I'm an idiot some more. " I don't have an opinion of you. To clarify: You said "It's simple to secure a place." Simple. I have an opinion that "simple" and "complex" are two different things. My opinion, that I have, is that it is not simple to secure a place because of the complexities listed below. My opinion is the following: Arming staff while hardening the environment does not secure it by definition. Someone can still compromise the environment but armed teachers could reduce the timeframe of compromise. I do not think this opinion of securing reflects or represents on the intellectual capacity of any member if their opinion is different. I have an opinion regarding this based off of past discussion, my opinion is as follows: As discussed multiple times here, implementation is a large part of the problem. Staff selection, funding, legal protections, training are all part of the problem. This opinion is not intended to reflect upon or represent the intellectual capacity of any member. I have a final opinion and conclusion: In most if not all places a school board can not just say "arm the teachers" then put out a bin of Glocks and ammunition and solve school shootings the next day. This conclusion is not intended to reflect upon or represent the intellectual capacity of any member. "It straight up pisses me off for you to act like I don't know laws will need to be changed." I never said that, you did. I do not feel that changing laws is "simple", this is my opinion of the definition of "simple" and how it applies to the process of creating law. This is not an opinion of you. I do not have a valuation of you as a person. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 05/10/19 at 12:42:11 6F7076716C6B5A6A5A62707C37050 wrote:
LOL - look at you jog.... Look at you getting all defensive. Eegore is by far, the most rational among us and you get all bound up and lash out when he logically puts you in your place. But yet, somehow I'm the one who makes this forum so "terrible". LOL |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by pg on 05/10/19 at 15:50:30 https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/440247-florida-senate-approves-bill-allowing-armed-teachers Best regards, |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 06/03/19 at 06:25:17 Yeah, just another shooting.... More guns, more problems. Period. SMH :'( http://www.yahoo.com/news/virginia-victims-had-150-years-112752018.html |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by pg on 06/03/19 at 07:16:39 Sure, strict gun laws work wonderfully in Chicago don't they..... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 06/03/19 at 08:04:12 554244484757250 wrote:
No, they don't. Wanna know why? Because you can drive 50 miles north to Wisconsin, 30 miles east to Indiana or 70 miles west to Iowa and get pretty much anything you want. Federal laws have to change. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by pg on 06/03/19 at 08:57:20 4D535C5D504D564B390 wrote:
I agree, I look forward to national reciprocity. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by pg on 06/03/19 at 10:12:11 That is concealed carry national reciprocity, all states recognize each others permits. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by pg on 06/03/19 at 10:14:24 In Chicago, 956 people have been shot this year. That is 116 fewer than 2018. https://www.chicagotribune.com/data/ct-shooting-victims-map-charts-htmlstory.html But things are looking up, over a hundred less shot than last year at this time. Before you know it your gun laws might actually have the perception they are working. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 06/03/19 at 10:21:12 5F484E424D5D2F0 wrote:
Well, I'll take a decrease in murders over an increase any day. The local guns laws have very little to do with those stats. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by WebsterMark on 06/03/19 at 10:35:57 Chicago is no different than any major metropolitan US city, including my city of St Louis. Gang bangers kill each other daily. Those calling for more gun laws are afraid to focus on the "who and what" causes for those stats. They don't really care about those lives, its not like they know or interact with them. It's just a stick to slap the political hockey puck around with. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by pg on 06/03/19 at 10:39:49 7D4F48595E4F58674B58412A0 wrote:
Chicago must have a lot of gang bangers then...… Best regards, |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 06/03/19 at 11:37:52 2C3B3D313E2E5C0 wrote:
Chicago must have a lot of gang bangers then...… Best regards,[/quote] We do, sadly. The communities that are most affected are trying their best. We'll see how Lightfoot handles things. She's already getting rid of "aldermanic prerogative" - I'm happy to see her making good on her promises already. Still, we're far better off, per capita, than many other cities when it comes to murders. |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by LostArtist on 06/03/19 at 13:13:05 6D7274736E6958685860727E35070 wrote:
can we do both? arm teachers and staff (on their own voluntary basis of course unless you want to really start funding teachers like they are both security and teachers and paying them for both rolls) and have single payer health care? |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by pg on 06/03/19 at 13:16:13 5C424D4C415C475A280 wrote:
Chicago must have a lot of gang bangers then...… Best regards,[/quote] We do, sadly. The communities that are most affected are trying their best. We'll see how Lightfoot handles things. She's already getting rid of "aldermanic prerogative" - I'm happy to see her making good on her promises already. Still, we're far better off, per capita, than many other cities when it comes to murders.[/quote] Are you glad Rahm is not longer in office? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Post by T And T Garage on 06/03/19 at 13:24:00 495E58545B4B390 wrote:
Chicago must have a lot of gang bangers then...… Best regards,[/quote] We do, sadly. The communities that are most affected are trying their best. We'll see how Lightfoot handles things. She's already getting rid of "aldermanic prerogative" - I'm happy to see her making good on her promises already. Still, we're far better off, per capita, than many other cities when it comes to murders.[/quote] Are you glad Rahm is not longer in office? Best regards,[/quote] There was good and bad with Rham. I'm glad he's out, but I also respect that he bowed out of his own accord. “This has been the job of a lifetime, but it is not a job for a lifetime.” A great quote that all elected officials should adopt. Frankly, it's gonna be a bit of a sh!tshow getting through this next year with Lightfoot. An elected school board (finally) and the end of aldermanic prerogative are steps in the right direction - but full on legalized gambling (coming from Springfield) is gonna be a tough one to handle. |
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