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Message started by MoSavage88 on 04/29/19 at 18:37:31

Title: No Start Issue
Post by MoSavage88 on 04/29/19 at 18:37:31

Hey guys, I don't post much(1 or 2 thus far) but I'm on almost everyday and constantly reading your guys posts. Anyway I'm hoping hoping you can help me out. I was on my way to work this morning when out of the blue I just had a loss of 12v power. Naturally my bike died and I was able to coast into a parkinglot where it stayed until I could grab a trailer and bring it home. I bought a brand new battery thinking maybe that was the issue but still nothing. I turn the key on and the only thing that comes on is the neutral light, no headlight,turn signal running lights, or speedo lights. The bike doesn't even so much as click when I push the start button. I have attached a picture of some wiring that I found to be messed up when I pulled the side cover off. I "fixed" the two circled ones(just to see if it would start, then more permanent fix if yes) and the one with the arrow was just cut all together and no trace of where it was supposed to go. Would these have anything to do with y problem?? Or any other Ideas as to what it could be? I am mechanically inclined, though electrical diagnostic work isn't my forte. Thanks!!

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/29/19 at 19:05:21

Check fuses
If good
Check connectors under the tank

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by MoSavage88 on 04/29/19 at 19:12:20

I checked the two fuses on the right side of the bike(didn’t see any others) and they weren’t blown and all connectors under tank seem to be tight. I pushed them all together just Incase.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/29/19 at 19:15:40

Welll, then I'm gonna Hafta step back and see what the smart guys have to offer.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by verslagen1 on 04/29/19 at 19:58:15

Let me guess... '86?
I've never seen one, so let me get out the weegee board.
1st, looks like your TDI has only 4 wires, I think there should be 6.
that loose wire black with a white stripe could go to the battery negative terminal.
Looks like there may be a cut wire on the battery terminal.
black with a white stripe is ground all over the bike.
those wires with the black braid appear to be hot, can't tell you what as 86 has weird wiring.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by batman on 04/29/19 at 20:30:28

Two wires run to the pickup coil and run to the TDI ignition box , one you've twisted together (green) and the other should be orange. they and the three yellow wires (alternator ) normally run behind the front pulley, under a clip , and into the alternator casing. I would check to make sure the clip is in place ,it keeps the pulley from cutting through the wires (which may have caused your problem)
I'm not sure what the second circle (wire) is the picture isn't that clear.
the wire the arrow is pointing to is a replacement, but traces back to the double connector with black /white strips ,showing that these are grounds. they should probably be run behind the battery box to the right side case , and connected under the casing bolt with the battery ground.(above and inboard of the oil level sight glass).
hope this helps.

PS . Vercy is right ,6 wires to the TDI

black, from the starter motor (sends a signal to retard timing at startup)
black/yellow, from the coil
black/white to ground
orange/white ,power from the kill switch
orange , to the pickup coil
green ,from the pickup coil (Clymer's --1986-1988)

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by MoSavage88 on 04/30/19 at 09:29:24

Sorry about the picture quality, Here I thought it was pretty good ;D Here is a little better picture of what you were looking at. Just in case it helps.(I have the other side of that black connector, just plugged it in to see if that was the issue. That terminal end was also disconnected, though it didn't solve the issue..)

Verslagen: Close! Its an 88 but the way it looks they're the same bike..Turns out there are actually six wires from the TDI, guess it was just the angle.

Batman:I didn't have time this morning but I will definitely trace those wires to the pulley and see if thats what happened!! I will also check on that ground. That is where the green wire thats cut came out from(behind the battery box). Would it be possible to just connect it to the negative terminal since its already right there? Or does it need to need a chassis ground specifically?

*not sure why it keeps flipping the images :-?*

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by verslagen1 on 04/30/19 at 09:50:28

I'm not that familiar with 88 wiring.
but that green wire goes to a connector with a brown wire.
brown usually goes to the tail light.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by batman on 04/30/19 at 10:12:26

You need to have a volt/ohmmeter ,and a wiring diagram ,and trace and restore the harness . It looks like the PO has done a cobb-job that you'll need to straighten out.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by MoSavage88 on 04/30/19 at 10:28:34

Verslagen: are you referring to the green wires I twisted together, or coming from the TDI box?

Batman: Thats just about the last thing I wanted to hear. lol

Looks Like I've got a weekend in the shop planned.

Would any of these have anything to do with my no start issue?? I guess maybe if that 2 black/white wires into green brown wire needs to be to a ground, that could cause it? Sorry to keep asking so many questiosn and bothering you guys, its just so nice outside I hate seeing it on the trailer..

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by Panhead on 04/30/19 at 10:28:50

I recently had a similar issue. Running fine when I turned it off. Next morning all I had was the neutral light. Nothing else worked. I found 2 problems with the battery ground cable. The screw holding the cable to the battery was a bit loose with a good bit of corrosion which also didn't help. Cleaned it up and reattached it. Still had same problem. Found the small ground wire from the battery broken off at a single wire connector behind the left frame side cover. Replaced the wire and all is well. It sounds like you might have the same problem.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by MoSavage88 on 04/30/19 at 10:32:22

596867616C686D090 wrote:

Definitely sounds just like what I'm into! Right now my negative battery terminal only has the big main ground connected to it, so it sounds like I need to be looking for a smaller wire that also attaches to the ground terminal and runs to a connector behind the side cover?

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/30/19 at 10:34:56

Since the fuses and connectors check out, and you lost lights and ignition
I'd start at the ignition switch.
Test power there
Then look at the wiring as it goes into the harness.
Look at the harness
See any signs of someone messing around in it?
If yes, go to whichever is easier
Into the harness or to the next connector.
See if power got where it's supposed to.

The decompression timer is another place to go study.
Of course
Doesn't matter where the twelve volts is, if there is no ground.
Check that out.
Totally unlikely given the description of the problem, but it's not hard and it beats hours of chasing stuff.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by batman on 04/30/19 at 11:12:08

The first thing I'd do is run the wire the arrow pointed to in the first pic ,to the ground bolt the battery uses at the case. those carry all the grounds from the lights /etc. Nothing works unless the circuit is complete . The battery ground wire (heavy) only grounds the starter motor through the case to the neg. battery post, all other grounds are run through the small black/white wires in the main harness to the same bolt the battery ground is connected to. No ground =no worky.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by MoSavage88 on 04/30/19 at 11:12:57

584741465B5C6D5D6D55474B00320 wrote:

Totally unlikely given the description of the problem, but it's not hard and it beats hours of chasing stuff.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by MoSavage88 on 04/30/19 at 11:19:02

Thanks Batman! I will have some time to work on it tonight, so i'll try that and look for a few other things all of you have suggested!

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/30/19 at 14:50:11

6B7D7474796B2F180 wrote:

[quote author=584741465B5C6D5D6D55474B00320 link=1556588264/0#12 date=1556645696]
Totally unlikely given the description of the problem, but it's not hard and it beats hours of chasing stuff.

Just out of curiosity, Why does a ground seem unlikely?? Again 12v systems are not my forte. I'm around body filler dust and paint fumes most of the day. I leave the wiring repairs to the guy that likes it. lol
[/quote]

Because it happened so quickly. It should have been a deterioration, if it was an accumulation of corrosion.
Just my opinion.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by MoSavage88 on 04/30/19 at 14:57:37

Ahh gotcha. Makes since as well.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by Panhead on 04/30/19 at 18:54:32

I just went through the wiring diagrams for every year of Savage. The neutral indicator is the only light that grounds to the engine/chassis ground directly. All other devices ground from a separate ground wire attached to the battery negative terminal. Someone may have altered the wiring and attached that wire to the engine/chassis. That will work but it's more subject to loose connection and/or corrosion. The wire should be black with white bands or spots. Locate that wire and look for broken wire or bad connector. That wire is the ground for everything except the neutral light.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by batman on 04/30/19 at 20:41:38

My point exactly ! No blown fuses ,means there should be no problem with power running to anything, no lights , starting, or spark makes me think there's no ground(s).

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/30/19 at 20:45:56

Well, Awwritee, I might have been exactly 100% wr, wr, wr, incorrect.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by MoSavage88 on 05/03/19 at 07:08:45

ITS ALIVE!! Sorry about the delay guys. My mom was in the hospital and put a hold on working on anything. Anyhow it ended up being that two ground wires into the one(green/brown) wire that was cut. As soon as I stripped it back and grounded it, she fired right up! So I fixed all of the wiring the correct way, taped everything up, routed it nicely and it looks significantly better! Thank all of you for your help!!

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/03/19 at 07:49:43

Whu?? How were they cut?
Who dunnit?

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by MoSavage88 on 05/03/19 at 08:13:12

I really think that it was initially attached to the negative terminal(where i wired it back to anyway) and the wires just got brittle and broke off flush making it look cut.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by batman on 05/04/19 at 16:39:34

46505959544602350 wrote:

I really think that it was initially attached to the negative terminal(where i wired it back to anyway) and the wires just got brittle and broke off flush making it look cut.

You may well have this occur again, if the battery has a chance of moving even slightly when hitting road bumps. Do yourself a favor and use a wire extended to reach the battery ground at the case, the bolt who's location I described in my earlier posting.

Title: Re: No Start Issue
Post by batman on 05/04/19 at 16:42:35

46505959544602350 wrote:

I really think that it was initially attached to the negative terminal(where i wired it back to anyway) and the wires just got brittle and broke off flush making it look cut.