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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> New member, doing a Savage rebuild - Updated /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1556036712 Message started by Tracce on 04/23/19 at 09:25:12 |
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Title: New member, doing a Savage rebuild - Updated Post by Tracce on 04/23/19 at 09:25:12 Hello everyone, this is my first post in Rubber Side Down, but I have been reading up on posts here for a little while. I just picked up a 1987 LS650F at what seems to me to be a pretty good price, and I went into this purchase knowing that I would have to buy quite a few parts and put more than a little bit of work into it. This bike is for my girl, and she wants it back to nearly stock. http://i64.tinypic.com/2vi3sll.jpg http://i66.tinypic.com/29qipt5.jpg I have done a bit of work on my own bike, a Honda Fury, and have a bit of experience turning a wrench, as well as throwing paint. The Savage has about 18.8k miles on it, and I was told that there may be issues with the clutch. The seller told me that the engine would crank but that the starter made a grinding noise, and that he stopped trying to start the engine when he heard the noise. The airbox was removed and replaced with a cone filter. I have a new starter and airbox on the way. Also, a previous owner welded the muffler to the exhaust pipe! Gonna have to cut at the welds and try to clean up the metal. Also, the front shock seals appear to be shot, as they are leaking fluid. This will be the first time I have rebuilt the front shocks. My girl wants the frame repainted due to some minor rust, so the bike is going to be disassembled down to the frame for the repaint. I do have the repair manual for this year model. Here are come pictures of the Savage with the tank and seat off of it. http://i67.tinypic.com/2whgoqs.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/dbjbc.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/16aehcz.jpg http://i66.tinypic.com/20tpkxf.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/14cfwuw.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/m9a6vk.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/2akjzus.jpg http://i66.tinypic.com/2mmbde1.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/nn2tky.jpg The part that concerns me the most is the wiring harness, I think I am going to have a bit of work in that department, as a previous owner got creative, going so far as to put in a hidden power kill switch, which has already been removed. Here is what some of the wiring looks like: http://i67.tinypic.com/j9ug6c.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/o69qmo.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/2rddl39.jpg Please, any pointers or advise on this project would be appreciated! |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Fast 650 on 04/23/19 at 10:50:32 With that many miles I would be looking at the cam chain tensioner before trying to start it up. If the chain is worn enough the plunger can disassemble itself. If it has done that already that may be the grinding noise that was attributed to the starter. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by ohiomoto on 04/23/19 at 10:59:09 5B7D6E6C6C6A0F0 wrote:
I hate to say it but you can buy a bike that runs and in perfect shape for less money and effort than you'll put into this project. My advice is to not do this project and find a bike that is at least running. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by norm92de on 04/23/19 at 12:21:04 Thumbs up. Ohiomoto. That would take an enormous amount of energy and expense to complete. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by norm92de on 04/23/19 at 13:08:43 In the army we called bikes like that B.E.R. Beyond economical repair. :'( |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by verslagen1 on 04/23/19 at 13:24:54 If she wants the frame painted cause of some rust, what she say about the cases? ::) Those 2 orange hoses with nails in them look to be the carb vents... take the nails out. Key issue with a 87 with a grinding starter could be the starter gear is missing teeth. pop the stator cover to see. and I would consider upgrading with a torque limiter gear... see the tech section. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by batman on 04/23/19 at 14:02:32 I'd get rid of the inline fuel filter also. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Tracce on 04/23/19 at 17:31:16 Thank y’all for the pointers! I will check on the cam chain tensioner and the starter gear. The bolts in the hoses are to protect them, and they were put in (not by me) to keep bugs out (spiders and dirt daubers in this area). I will pull the inline filter as well. As for the engine and covers, we planned to paint them from very beginning! The plan is to black out the bike, with the exception of the tank and fenders, which will be blue. The bike will have a matte clear coat on it. I will put pinstripe tape on the engine fins, and remove it after the paint is applied for some contrast. All engine bolts will be left silver colored. I am researching how to remove chrome, as it is a real pain to get paint to stick to it. At the moment I am leaning towards using an electrolysis and sulphuric acid process to remove it. We knew that there would be expenses to fixing this bike when we bought it, and we did consider a newer one that was running, but I cannot afford the down payment that the bank wanted for the loan. This bike only cost $200 and a Uhaul trailer rental! Figured that I could have payments (after saving up for the down payment), or I could put the money from payments into the parts to repair it and have fun / learn as I work on it. Besides, I found that I really enjoy working on motorcycles while I was fixing up my Fury! Additionally... I am able to justify more tools when fixing up the bike for my fiancée! |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by ohiomoto on 04/24/19 at 06:26:29 Tracce, I get it, it was only $200, but you bought someone else's problems and you don't even know if it will run until you start dumping money into it. For ~$1000-$1500 your could buy a nice running bike and modify however you like. Sell/part out the 87 and save you money for a few weeks or months and get a better bike. You'll spend less time and money in the long run. This bike had 3500 miles on it and cost me $1250. I didn't need a trailer because it was running. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by LANCER on 04/24/19 at 08:44:52 You will need to disassemble everything, including the engine; especially the top to check cam & cam bearings,rockers, valves, piston/cylinder, and possible the bottom end as well. You need to be sure all primary components are good and usable as is. You do have a lot of work in in just cleanup and redoing the damaged wiring. Consider getting a new wiring harness. One of the same vintage is likely too aged. If the engine is ok inside it is rebuildable for a reasonable cost with lots of sweat equity. If you do need to part it out and start with another bike I will buy your old usable camshaft, if there is no damage to the cam bearing surfaces. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Dave on 04/24/19 at 09:23:06 You would be sooooo much farther ahead if found a better bike. If this was a vintage Matchless, Velocette, Vincent, etc. it could be a worthwhile project - but you can find a much better bike that won't require hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of parts....and a whole lot of labor. Even if a "rat bike" is your goal.....getting the mechanical parts sorted out appears to be a major project! |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Fast 650 on 04/24/19 at 11:04:47 If you are determined to work with that bike, you might want to look at the marketplace section, SoC has a lot of parts that he is getting rid of. Including a lower mileage engine. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/24/19 at 11:59:22 Somebody has two hundred dollars, an empty spot, apparently in the back yard, and one HUGE Grin. Those pictures are inspirational. I didn't buy it and I have buyers remorse for you. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/24/19 at 12:27:51 I'm sorry, but that bike is not a good candidate for rehabilitation. The known issues (starter, clutch, fork seals, cam-chain tensioner, wiring, exhaust, tires) will cost you $1,000 to repair/replace/rework. It's the unknown things that are going to eat your lunch. I would say budget another $1,000 for those. And then there are the cosmetic issues - which are many. You mentioned that the frame needs to be painted because of rust...but what's under the rust. Once chromoly tubing begins to go, it usually goes deep and far. Finally, you will spend hundreds of hours bringing the surfaces back. For example, in order to get the corrosion off the hubs you are going to have to de-spoke the wheels. You will spend many hours getting them polished. Once polished they will have to be sprayed with clear and baked, otherwise you'll never be done polishing that bike. The spokes appear to have corrosion and if they are compromised are a safety hazzard and shouldn't be re-used. Getting the engine cases painted will be a nightmare and a disappointment. Plan on 20-50 hours of work to get them prepped for paint, and then expect the paint to begin to fail shortly after riding. The cases should be powdercoated. Of course the engine will have to be disassembled to get ALL of the cases coated. If if you can paint and powdercoat by yourself, it's another $500. This bike is a money pit. My gut tells me even if you are happy with a half-assed job you'll be in for $2,000-$2,500. If you are hoping to have a nice bike (all surface corrosion removed meaning new bars, mirrors, t-clamps...fresh paint and powdercoating), $3,500-$5,000. Oh, you'll be lucky to have it ready by August. Are you ready to dump a few grand (or more) into the bike in the next 90-days? But for $1,000 you can find a good runner, that's ready to ride NOW. Cut your losses before you go in too deep. This is coming for someone that builds bikes from unloved bikes. I wouldn't touch this project if you GAVE me the bike. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Eegore on 04/24/19 at 14:31:46 I've easily dumped more than 3 times the value of just one of my Savages to get it up to speed. It's not a big deal if you have the time and money and Gary has a reasonable breakdown if you want to go that route. I would just buy new/used but useable safe rims, rusted ones do take forever to bring up to safe riding standard as described. Just know the cost goes up fast, you will exceed the value of that bike shortly. I do it because the bikes are cheap, easy to get repaired, find parts for and I don't care if mine get destroyed/damaged while experimenting on things. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Tracce on 04/24/19 at 19:04:45 Hey guys, I really appreciate y’all making sure that I am going into this knowing what I may be getting myself into here, both financially and in man hours. That being said, I did not choose this bike, my fiancée did. When she decides she wants something of hers to look a certain way, it is best to just nod and get it over with. She is not like that with anything else, just things like how her vehicles look. The rust issue on the frame is tiny spots, but at first she she wanted it pristine and repainted. /sigh, fine. She looked at it again after I first posted but before y’all replied, and told me that since it is hidden by seat, covers, etc., she doesn’t want the frame painted now. I am going to hit the spots with rust neutralizer and be done with the frame. The wheels have no rust on them. What appears to be rust is grime, fork oil, dust and dirt. The wheels are fine. I was able to get a low mileage starter for $30 shipped, and it was taken off of a running bike. I am going to pull the engine and replace the cam chain adjuster, $180 if it is shot, less if it is not. I am going to check the starter gear also. If good, awesome, if not, $50 to $70. While the engine is out of the bike I will degrease it, clean it really well, and it will be painted. Wiring harness will be removed and repaired using the wiring diagram from this site. The muffler is welded to the header well aft of the slip on point. Easy fix to cut through the welded area and clean up the pipe. Harley Sportster muffler will set me back another $40, shipped. New rear fender, $60. I do my own body work, and most chrome will be stripped from the parts, and will be repainted. All I will need for that is some sulphuric acid and my battery charger, and the chrome will be removed via electrolysis, say 5 to 10 minutes per chrome part. Then they will be painted. Paint will cost me about $40, matte clear coat will be about $60 to $80 (I have my own media blaster, HVLP setup, and paint booth that I can set up in the garage). We both like matte better than gloss, and it is much easier to work with than gloss. After that it is just a matter of getting the body panels, turn signal, and brake light. Fork seal kit, $20 shipped. Assuming I have an otherwise working engine, I will have to shell out, what, maybe $600 (added some extra to cover gaskets, misc bolts, etc.)? Now, if the engine is bad, then I will either have to fix it or buy a new one, and that will add about $750 to the total cost. Then I have to factor in that my fiancée want to work on the bike with me, so that will be time we get to spend together doing something we both enjoy. Hard to put a value on that. No disrespect intended, but if I do something, I make sure it looks good. Here is a pic of what my 2011 Honda Fury looked like (before I dropped it twice and put two good sized dents in the tank, one on each side). http://i64.tinypic.com/2n19s7r.jpg Dealership told me it would cost $2k to make it look new again, $1k to get it running. It cost me $500 to get it running and looking like this, and I did all of the work myself: http://i67.tinypic.com/2iik2e1.jpg |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Dave on 04/25/19 at 02:45:05 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1504271719/0 Don't buy a new factory cam chain tensioner........you need one that has been modified to provide a second mounting point for the guide. Verslagen sells them in the Marketplace section of this forum. Lancer also sells new cam chains that have been Nitrided and should last longer than the stock ones. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Tracce on 04/25/19 at 04:14:05 08333E2938342F29323A37285B0 wrote:
The modified tensioner was the one I planned to go with. In fact, Suzuki should buy them from Verslagen and put them in all the new S-40’s that they make! I did not know about the cam chain, thank you! |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by ohiomoto on 04/25/19 at 05:36:20 Nice work on the Fury, BUT it was a relatively new runner, so... Anyway, I love following a good build so please keep posting. Sure you picked a pile of poo to start with, but hopefully, it will run and I look forward to seeing what you are able to do with it. Also, I have a pile of 87 parts from a parts bike that came with my bike. Lower end, side cases, lots of small parts, electrical bits, chrome covers, fenders, probably a brake light, maybe some turn signal parts, etc. If you need anything let me know. Most of it you can have for shipping. I also have perfect Dayna muffler too. Email me at my username on here at gmail if you are interested. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by LANCER on 04/25/19 at 08:40:49 I have a number of parts as well. Many for just the cost of shipping. Just holler if interested. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/25/19 at 08:43:03 I too am happy to hear that you are going into this project with eyes (and wallet) wide open. My fear was that you weren't aware of how these things can (do) spiral out of control. As Ohio said, good luck and keep us up to date with a build log. I have nothing left of my build. All of the chrome was pitted and was tossed in the bin, and now all of the aluminum is polished. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/25/19 at 11:18:59 You obviously do good work. I see you are getting the support and offers for parts. You're bringing it back from the grave, make it pretty Name it Zombie? |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Dave on 04/25/19 at 12:59:48 Where is this bike....and you, located? Maybe somebody on the forum with a stash of parts lives close to you? |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Eegore on 04/25/19 at 14:10:03 "Dealership told me it would cost $2k to make it look new again, $1k to get it running. It cost me $500 to get it running and looking like this, and I did all of the work myself" That's good to hear. People were pretty upset with me when I first posted here because I paid "too much" to have work done to one of my bikes. I'm sure doing the work yourself will alleviate some of the complaints, and it most likely more fun for the both of you. You should get a ton of good help here. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by playhard67 on 04/25/19 at 16:52:16 Glad you're doing the build. Post lots of pics. I, too, like to do my own work on anything...just so I can buy new tools. Enjoy the bike. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Tracce on 04/25/19 at 19:19:55 Sorry for the delay in replying, it was a long day at work, and then I needed to spend some time with the family. My 7 year old son rode his little 50cc dirt bike for the first time today, and he didn’t drop it! So proud of the little guy!! I really appreciate the support from all of y’all, and thank you for the offer of parts. Let me get together a list and I will get with y’all by email (or PM once I hit 10 posts). I will need to wait till next week, payday, to be able to put out some cash. I am planning on taking photos of the build progress, and posting them here as the build progresses. My goal for this weekend is to remove the header and cut through the welded area to separate the muffler from it, and to clean up where the crappy flux core weld is left on the header. Then I plan to pop the side covers and check the starter gear and the chain adjuster. Finally I will pop the inspection ports to the cylinder and use my snake cam to look inside. I will post the pics for y’all to see. If I have time and am feeling froggy, I may remove the engine using the blanket in the grass method mentioned on these forums, and possibly the wiring harness so I can get a better idea of what I am working with. As for the name of the bike, my fiancée wants to go with “Valkyrie”. I know that is the name of a Honda bike, but later on down the road, when she is done with the dropsies, she plans to strip the clear coat from the tank, have me reshoot a coat of paint on it, then have someone paint Valkyrie wings on it, then have me reapply the matte clear coat. I am in Victoria Texas, BTW, about 45 mins south of Shiner, where Shiner beer is brewed! |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/25/19 at 20:17:37 Niiice |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Tracce on 04/26/19 at 16:32:03 Ok, got to feeling froggy, and decided to pull the wiring harness while having a smoke in the garage. The damage was not as bad as I had thought, only a few wires were cut, I believe that they were to the rear turn and brake signal lamps. The wires that were worrying me were actually on the ignition key side of that sub assembly, and not actually on the wiring harness itself. While removing the wiring harness from the frame I bumped the carb, and found that it was not fully attached to the engine. Long story short, I ended up removing the exhaust system, carburetor, handlebars, most of the electrical system, and the battery box. I still plan to pop the side covers and the inspection ports this weekend. I will post photos in a bit. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/19 at 17:04:04 What cigarettes do you smoke? Mine don't last Near that long. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Tracce on 04/26/19 at 17:27:11 6F7076716C6B5A6A5A62707C37050 wrote:
———————— Lol, Marlboro Special Select light shorts. The decision was made while I was smoking, I ended up having like 5 of them! |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/19 at 19:49:57 Ya know, Phoenix might be a good name. Greek mythology, a phoenix is a long-lived bird that cyclically regenerates or is otherwise born again. Associated with the Sun, a phoenix obtains new life by arising from the ashes of its predecessor. According to some sources, the phoenix dies in a show of flames and combustion, although there are other sources that claim that the legendary bird dies and simply decomposes before being born again. There are different traditions concerning the lifespan of the phoenix, … |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Eegore on 04/26/19 at 20:58:08 I must have the most boring bike names ever. 95 Savage 01. 95 Savage 02. Etc. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Tracce on 04/26/19 at 21:32:37 LOL, I had thought that Phoenix would be a great name too, and suggested it to her, but she likes Valkyries. I guess it is my fault really, my family on my father’s side is of Viking decent, and I make sure to point that out every chance I get. When I had my first motorcycle crash I ended up going to the ER due to my leg having issues healing. When the staff came to get my information for insurance they asked my ethnicity (I am Caucasian). Without skipping a beat I answered “Viking.” They glared at me, but that hospital record actually has my race/ethnicity listed as “Viking!” Ok, pic time! Here is the wiring harness after I gently removed it from the bike. http://i64.tinypic.com/23vxi0l.jpg This is the only visible damage to the wiring harness, the rest is wrapped in factory tape. http://i64.tinypic.com/2q8d6cp.jpg This is the ignition switch assembly: http://i65.tinypic.com/1zo7n05.jpg Here is where a previous owner... modified?.. it. .http://i66.tinypic.com/2edoy2w.jpg The bike having been stripped of quite a few components: http://i68.tinypic.com/1jtfa0.jpg |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/19 at 22:39:05 Yeah, very tidy job on those wires. Machete, maybe? That's UggLee.. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by ohiomoto on 04/27/19 at 03:21:37 4464666E7364010 wrote:
I'm with you. The only reason I named my bike is because my buddy named it "purple rain" before I built it. So it was named and it needed changed. lol Sorry, back on topic...don't want to trash this thread. :) |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild Post by Tracce on 04/27/19 at 18:31:28 Ok, got the bike stripped nearly to the frame, just need to remove the wheels and triple tree. The engine looks ok on the outside, but found a broken fin. I then popped the engine covers. Oil had already been drained, but I could smell gas. The right side of the block inside looks good, someone modified the cam chain adjuster though. http://i67.tinypic.com/2rrx5di.jpg Under the left side cover... not so good! Grinding noise was not the starter, but, as y’all suspected, the starter gear. I noticed that the washer was missing from the starter gear, and that the mounting point for the gear was broken off, along with a few teeth of the gear it turns. http://i66.tinypic.com/2en7p1h.jpg Here is the starter gear. http://i66.tinypic.com/2uik9rp.jpg So, looks like I will be buying a new left side crankcase at the very least, will probably buy both sides. Prices on them are not too bad. Going to upgrade the starter gear when I reassemble the engine. May buy a new jug as well. But hey! This will make the engine easier to paint, and I will get to learn how to rebuild the transmission and engine! Still having fun on this build! My fiancée and I had a great time working on it today. Verslagen, the lay the bike over on a blanket trick worked great, thank you for sharing it in another post! |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild - Updated Post by Fast 650 on 04/28/19 at 11:18:45 I would give a lot of thought to getting this engine: <http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1556123576> The head cover was damaged from the accident, but your head can be swapped onto it. The ignition timing is different from early to late engines, so you need to either use your old rotor or replace your ignitor with the late version. You get a lower mileage engine, a 5 speed gearbox, and the updated starter as a bonus with that swap. And it is much less work than swapping cases on your engine will be. Been there, done that. It is more work than it looks like. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild - Updated Post by Tracce on 04/28/19 at 12:19:11 PM sent to him, thank you much! |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild - Updated Post by Tracce on 05/05/19 at 18:32:22 Ok, with parts on the way we got to work on the chrome situation. As opposed to starting off with the acid bath to remove the chrome, we tried something else first. Dupli-Color Shadow Chrome Blackout. I also picked up a can of Dupli-Color wheel matte clear coat. I got the rust off of the chrome with steel wool, then cleaned it with acetone. I hung it up in my paint area and applied 2 base coats before applying the gloss finish to on half and matte clear coat to the other half. I was impressed with the results, but personally I like the matte finish more than the gloss. Here are the pics: Entire handlebar: http://i63.tinypic.com/1532n8n.jpg Gloss half: http://i68.tinypic.com/mm3jf4.jpg Matte half: http://i67.tinypic.com/v668eo.jpg At this time I think we are going to go this route. |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild - Updated Post by badwolf on 05/05/19 at 19:02:08 Your ''paint area'' is the kitchen? Do you live alone, or are you planning on soon living alone? |
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Title: Re: New member, doing a Savage rebuild - Updated Post by Tracce on 05/05/19 at 19:37:41 5D5F4C524C4E565F574C3E0 wrote:
Nope, lol, better lighting. Brought the bars inside once they dried to inspect them better, as the sun had already set. To be clear, my “paint area” is a section of my 4400 sq ft concrete and steel barn (for lack of a better word) that I have set up a paint booth in. Not that it matters in this situation, as I was showing how the blackout process was going, not how my garage and shop are set up. |
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