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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Popped clutch - lost power /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1553744686 Message started by Eegore on 03/27/19 at 20:44:46 |
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Title: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 03/27/19 at 20:44:46 So I popped the clutch in 1st while starting the bike and everything went dark. Actually I didn't "pop" the clutch as much as not even compress it when hitting the ignition. After it lurched and died I had nothing with the key turned to Drive, and only rear running/brake lights when turned to Park. I was able to jump-start the bike but I now have rapid flashers (Blue Collar Bobber bullets, not stock). Can anything weird besides a short in the wiring, or the need for a new battery have happened that I am just unaware of? |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/27/19 at 20:51:45 I'd start with fuses If good I'd start looking at connectors Since it shouldn't have tried to start in gear, maybe you should look at the sidestand safety switch. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by batman on 03/27/19 at 21:24:56 or the clutch safety switch. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by verslagen1 on 03/27/19 at 22:18:15 7555575F4255300 wrote:
This shouldn't happen, you can't get the starter to rotate w/out the clutch lever held in. check the clutch safety. Quote:
Drive should be on. And with the key in park, only the tail light or license plate light should be on. Quote:
Standard incandescent lights? Then one of the lamps are out. LED's will cause it to flash quickly unless you have an electronic flasher. [quote] |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 03/28/19 at 07:49:24 "Drive should be on. And with the key in park, only the tail light or license plate light should be on." I double checked and I have zero power to lights while the key is turned to drive and I have power to both rear turn signals and the tail light/plate light when the parking lights are on. All of my turn-signals work, they just rapid flash, they are not LED. Specifically they all are on, and they all have the brighter filament active while signaling, just faster. I will check the clutch safety, I didn't think to check. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/28/19 at 10:01:38 My money is on the connector under the tank. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by verslagen1 on 03/28/19 at 11:59:28 maybe the connectors popped loose during the lurch... But the starter button goes thru the right connector to the left connector the the clutch safety switch, then back thru the left connector to the decomp controller then to the starter relay. You can check you have power to the starter button by pulling the clutch safety switch connector and seeing if you have 12v (or so) on one of the wires when you push the button. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 03/28/19 at 19:27:53 My clutch safety is not active. I can put it in gear, press the ignition and the bike will lurch and die. As for the turn signals I adjusted the connections and they work fine now. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/28/19 at 19:35:27 Nobody can type words with sufficient impact to fix it. Stop doing what you are doing. Put it in neutral. Does it start? You can keep saying it doesn't work. Try hearing this. A guy rode home. Parked it. Ate lunch. Went to return to work. Bike no start. Seemed dead. Connector under tank had vibrated loose. Yours might be barely connected. Solving the problem by retyping it hasn't worked. Maybe a more proactive approach is needed. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by verslagen1 on 03/28/19 at 22:45:14 A patient tells his doctor "it hurts when I bend my elbow" The doctor says "well... don't do that". Of course you could fix it. http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Circuits/%2796-%2703Startingcircuit.jpg |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 03/29/19 at 05:29:33 Maybe there is some confusion here. To clarify: I have utilized the advice here to go through a process of checking the recommended testing and potential fixes. Step one was to verify all wiring connections are secure including the connector under the tank. The tank was drained and removed, the seat removed, and all connections were unsecured checked for damage and cleanliness then re-secured. All fuses were replaced. Upon doing this the bike will now start, and turn-signal flashers operate as they did before. After this process I then had the bike placed into 1st gear and with the key in the appropriate position, when the ignition switch was compressed the bike lurched forward and died. This was repeated 10 times for verification, two other bikes of identical year (1995) went through the same process and they only made a loud click and did not engage the engine. This shows that out of 30 attempts 1/3 of those attempts result in a lurching bike, all from one bike 100% of the time. My conclusion is that at this time the only remaining issue is that the clutch safety is not working correctly. This assessment is intended as an informational update indicating that multiple known issues have been reduced to one by following the suggested steps provided here. One observation I have made is that the diagram provided above indicates two 20A fuses while my bikes contain one 20A and one 30A. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/29/19 at 10:50:49 If started in neutral, then dropped into gear, what happens? |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by batman on 03/29/19 at 11:08:51 Most bikes don't have a clutch safety switch ,it is always a good habit to learn to hold the clutch lever in when starting any bike in gear, it also means that you'll have both hands on the bars if the bike does lurch forward ,and thus less chance of it being dropped. because that switch sees movement each time you start or shift the bike it tends to fail early on , it may be a boon for new first time riders , but becomes just one more thing to check when your bike wont start.(PITA) I bypassed mine years ago and never looked back. The bike can still be started in neutral without use of the clutch, but may try to lurch slightly if the oil is cold. Both fuses should be 20 amp, a 30 amp fuse is overrated for the wire size may cause damage before the fuse pops. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 03/29/19 at 11:30:13 "If started in neutral, then dropped into gear, what happens?" Nothing out of the ordinary, the bike goes into gear and as throttle is applied and the clutch is released the bike moves forward. If the clutch is not compressed it takes more of a stomp to force the bike into first gear where it lurches forward and dies, or runs depending on throttle amount. "Both fuses should be 20 amp, a 30 amp fuse is overrated for the wire size may cause damage before the fuse pops." Good to know, I will replace all the toolkits to carry only 20A fuses. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/29/19 at 12:21:43 the clutch is not compressed it takes more of a stomp to force the bike into first gear where it lurches forward and dies, or runs depending on throttle amount. Doing that is 100% stupid. The bikes action is 100% normal. That's why it Has a clutch. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 03/29/19 at 12:26:10 "Doing that is 100% stupid. The bikes action is 100% normal. That's why it Has a clutch. " I am aware of why it has a clutch, I was simply answering your question. As indicated above, the turn signal issue was resolved, the clutch safety has not been. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/29/19 at 12:27:49 Nowhere in my question did I suggest you not use the clutch. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 03/29/19 at 12:35:22 "Nowhere in my question did I suggest you not use the clutch." That is correct, nowhere in my answer did I indicate you recommended, stated, requested, or otherwise attempted to have my bike started without the clutch. To clarify: The process utilized below is an attempt to answer a question and also provide supplemental information about the starting of a 1995 from neutral. The process in no way reflects a complete adherence to requests made by forum members. Method one: Compressed clutch with the bike in neutral results in the bike moving forward when put into first gear while simultaneously adding throttle. This method does not reflect the requests or opinions of forum members. Method two: Released clutch with the bike in neutral results in, with excessive compression on the shift lever, the bike being put into first gear and then moving forward while simultaneously adding throttle. This method does not reflect the requests or opinions of forum members. Method three: Released clutch with the bike in neutral results in, with excessive compression on the shift lever, the bike being put into first gear and then it lurching forward and stopping with the engine halting completely. This method does not reflect the requests or opinions of forum members. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/29/19 at 16:48:13 Wow.. Pull clutch lever in For this weird moment Use neutral Start bike Put in gear Does it try to walk away? If so, how much slack in the cable? If not, Why are we having this discussion? |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 03/29/19 at 17:14:14 "If not, Why are we having this discussion? " I was answering your question(s) with no intent of attempting to indicate I was using a method you described. I originally asked if there was some component I was missing when I had the bike lurch forward upon pressing the ignition switch, and losing power. Loss of power seemed odd and was wondering if I was unaware of some way to electrically damage the bike by starting it in gear. Upon documenting the responses and proceeding through the examination(s) of the bike and enough tests to remove chance as a factor and reliably replicate a portion of the original problem (clutch released ignition and lurching) I came to the conclusion that somewhere a connection was compromised, and fixed, while my clutch safety remained inoperable. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/29/19 at 18:20:11 came to the conclusion that somewhere a connection was compromised, and fixed, while my clutch safety remained inoperable. That's exactly what I concluded. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 03/29/19 at 20:12:35 I understand that. I was just answering your questions without intent of indicating the methods used were suggested by you, or anyone else. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by batman on 03/30/19 at 14:02:50 Bottom line ,the bike acted normal( though the clutch switch is bypassed), except for the lights, when the key was in the park position, only the tail light (running filament ) should have been on , the fact that signals were lit shows an electrical fault . Expecting the battery/starter motor, to power the motor and propel the weight of the bike forward, is 100% silly. Stomping on the shift lever to get the bike in 1st gear can bend the rod on the shift linkage and is equally silly. The clutch lever needs to be held in whenever starting in gear whether the safety switch is present or bypassed. The answer to the original question, will trying to start the bike in this manor cause an electrical problem ? The short answer is no. The problem was already present, or may have occurred when the bike lurched forward. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 04/02/19 at 19:31:25 "Expecting the battery/starter motor, to power the motor and propel the weight of the bike forward, is 100% silly. Stomping on the shift lever to get the bike in 1st gear can bend the rod on the shift linkage and is equally silly." I understand this but given the fact that there are four methods that can be utilized to see if a bike can be started when asked: "If started in neutral, then dropped into gear, what happens?" to me it would be equally silly, given the opportunity, to not examine all methods thus allowing me to have answers for all known methods. This of course is not an attempt to indicate any forum member stated or suggested that these methods be attempted. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by batman on 04/02/19 at 22:06:51 A silly question , you already experienced what happens.(nothing good). |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/03/19 at 09:05:28 "If started in neutral, then dropped into gear, what happens? I had no idea that I needed to include Use the clutch... That's why it's THERE. Who doesn't know that if you shove a standard in gear , Ohhh, I'll include, from a standstill, because somebody might not understand what I'm saying, It's gonna jump and die? Okay, now, not EVERY vehicle with a standard transmission will die if you ram it into gear at a standstill, but it's gonna jump, jerk, lurch and cause wear on critical parts, so It's not recommended behavior. So, I'll say this one time I expect people to read what I say and do it Only in the common, recommended manner. I am now concerned about asking you anything about a gun , without also including Don't point it at yourself or anyone or anything you don't want to see a bullet in. If started in neutral, then dropped into gear, what happens? Not a silly question, based on the wording of the question. A ridiculous choice of action based on the question.. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by Eegore on 04/03/19 at 16:23:14 "I had no idea that I needed to include" You didn't need to, I've stated this already. I have attempted to explain in multiple posts that I did not think you stated, inferred, described, mentioned, theorized, insinuated or in any way recommended any specific method to be used for starting a motorcycle. The percentage of recommendation you gave for starting a motorcycle is 0%. Zero. You made no recommendation and as such did not need to include any statements about utilizing a clutch. I don't know how to make that more clear. That being said, again, given the opportunity I will try all methods because I like to do that type of stuff. "Not a silly question, based on the wording of the question." It is not, I already agreed with you. Again, I understood what you meant, I didn't think you were in any way, describing any particular method be used. I just did what I did because I wanted to. Not because any person stated it should be done. The percentage of methods used was 100% my desire to do them. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/03/19 at 16:34:57 Well ,Ooookay then... I'm gonna say we got that all ironed out. |
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Title: Re: Popped clutch - lost power Post by verslagen1 on 04/03/19 at 17:48:52 somebody should make a video of what we need to know. ;D |
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