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Message started by joeyt on 02/03/19 at 10:33:57

Title: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/03/19 at 10:33:57

Howdy everyone. Let me start by saying, glad to be on the forum after lurking for a bit, and I apologise if this thread should have been in the cafe(I wasn't sure.)

This thread is to document my build, and have a place to get feedback and criticism throughout the build. While I'd like to get her built ASAP, it will be a slow build and will likely be updated as I am able to work on her. Constraints are primarily time and money.

Goal for advice is to search through the forums to try and understand an issue, then present what I do understand in an effort for somebody to fill in the gaps or correct any flaws in my thinking.

So, let me kick this off with a picture of the bike. She's a '96 with just over 9k miles. Just bought her as the first bike I personally own and I intend to build a little bobber out of her. She will get a name in the future and as I instill some of my own personality into her, just like I've done with my cars and other things over my couple years.

I have some tube and end caps on order, which will be used to build a dummy oil tank. The battery is stock size and brand new, so instead of buying a smaller one to fit on the muffler bracket, I intend to work with it to try and build a box that will tuck it down and out of the way as much as possible. We've had some rain that's kept me from trying to plan/mock something up from cardboard and PVC.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by batman on 02/03/19 at 11:11:08

I would advise you to run the bike stock for now rather than jumping into a build. Looking at your bike I see problems , You should at first ,get the bike running right, the bluing on the header pipe shows that it has been running lean, (I would think it's entire life) and you have a leak at the muffler /header pipe connection . I f you intend to change mufflers we would recommend a HD Dyna , as a good one, and a good starting point , we could then advise proper jets depending on your elevation( the carb is tuned to the muffler ). you should also read up on the spacer mod, and you may want to check the cam chain tensioner . after the bike is running well and there is no chance of damage ,you can begin the build as time/ money allows.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/03/19 at 11:17:32

Don't let it sit and idle on the sidestand.
That starves the cam of oil.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/03/19 at 13:53:37

Thank you for spotting those issues. I'll look into a remedy for the lean status first. Versy's tensioner is also in the plans. I figured that it was an issue and had intended to rejet after a pod filter and exhaust.

Are CA models even leaner than the rest of the country? I'm learning how a carb is tuned, and the smaller jets they come with here means less fuel going into the carb, correct? Should I first pull the fuel mix plug and follow directions to adjust that?

While Dyna is tried and true, and I happen to have one in the shed, I was hoping to run as short an exhaust as possible without running a drag pipe(I realize that's a terrible idea.) A friend had offered to weld up a 1.5" header with a baffle and turn out after it. I told him maybe after I was sure his idea wouldn't damage the bike. Provided baffle placement and size is correct, is this a viable solution at the exhaust side?

Edit: was rereading a thread here about drag exhausts. Somebody stated they had a 2" baffle at the end of their pipe that caused damage. Somebody else had said a 4" baffle 2" into the header is a good start. Could anybody comment on a 4-6" baffle into the header 2"+turn out or glasspack length behind that? I will also see about grabbing one of Mr. Lancer's jet sets and cleaning the chrome on the Dyna muffler.. just in case. ;D

Thank you!

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by NRR Boot on 02/03/19 at 16:58:37

I have excessive bluing on my header pipe as well... No apparent leaks but going to change the header pipe gasket just to make sure and I know I have to look more into the jetting as I get backfires when I let off the exhaust... The exhaust is a 2.5" Screaming Eagle turnout pipe with NO BAFFLE... I am replacing the baffle in the coming weeks... My issue was when I got the bike it had exhaust wrap on it that was torn... I took it off and noticed the excessive bluing and where the wrap was... I want to remove the bluing but unsure how at this point... I never worried about it before as I never had a bike this bad...

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/03/19 at 18:31:06

Why is your bike in jail?

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/03/19 at 18:41:26

726D6B6C71764777477F6D612A180 wrote:

Why is your bike in jail?

I guess it's been leaning the wrong way in it's life.. da dum.. oh.. nevermind. ;D

It's in there while I get the garage cleaned out.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by ohiomoto on 02/04/19 at 08:29:31

Since your resources are limited, my advise is to divide you build into small enough chunks that you can complete each one in minimal time and then be able to put the bike back on the road. That way you can enjoy it as you build it. Too many people take these things down too far all at once and then spend years trying to compete them.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by NRR Boot on 02/04/19 at 09:22:38

Check out TC Choppers and Blue Collar Bobber for your build... I have discovered the Savage has NO Custom Parts to order... I have read Harley Pegs will work with modifications... I am attempting to put an FL Rear Fender on mine now... I get a few ideas and then used WISH.COM to buy the parts like the 1937 tail light and license plate bracket... I paid $11 but had to wait 2 months... Battery Box I am working on and if you have any ideas please share... This one I am lost on as nothing looks good for my taste..

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by NRR Boot on 02/04/19 at 10:10:11

TC Brothers has these and in a prior post I asked... Batman gave me some good advice NOT TO PUT REGULATOR INSIDE IT...

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/04/19 at 11:02:25

Good tips good tips! Thank you all. Yes, the build is getting divided up. First step is to remedy the intake/exhaust troubles. Good looking out on wish, I forgot that existed!

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by batman on 02/04/19 at 11:49:48

Simichrome- makers of- Blue Away (420071) may work on your headers, but don't waste your time or money until you rejet.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by playhard67 on 02/04/19 at 17:40:09

536F6F5F7272691D0 wrote:

NRR Boot... What are the specs on your handlebar? Rise? lower dimension by risers? Did you have to get extended cables for this handlebar?

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/04/19 at 18:13:24

Actually, Mr. NRR, maybe your muffler might be what I'm looking for. Would you happen to have a part number on that? I'm also looking into a similar pipe.. voodoo something or other turn out muffler or even a 12" reverse cone if I can find one. It seems a lot of the cheaper, smaller mufflers are just glasspack or they have no information regarding that. Thank you.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by LANCER on 02/05/19 at 14:20:33

5F5A504C41350 wrote:

The less expensive mufflers are typically basically all the same, with just a slight metal baffle, it it’s even ther, and then just a little fiberglass batting. The baffling effect is minimal at best, and the loud sound coming out is a very harsh sound. I’ve had a couple of them and added a really good amount of a better quality batting and the sound improved a little, but just a little. Something like that I would usually just offer here for anyone who just wanted it for just shipping cost.
A lot of them are also on the small side.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/05/19 at 15:04:53

I've been looking into cone engineering as you recommended, sir. Their 12" shorty looks like it'd fit the look I'd like, but they don't offer that with a baffle. Would adding a lollipop of some sort inside the straight through portion or just before it in the header remedy the lack of a baffle, or should I just give up on a small muffler and get the "quiet-er" model? What do you personally run on Rex?

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by verslagen1 on 02/05/19 at 15:08:47

I put the quieter reverse cone on beast but I'm still working thru some issues.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/05/19 at 15:33:03

607364657A7771737827160 wrote:

I put the quieter reverse cone on beast but I'm still working thru some issues.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by LANCER on 02/06/19 at 07:23:50

4A4F455954200 wrote:

Did you look under "Motorcycle Exhaust Builder Components" on their site ?

REX has a Test Unit muffler that was part of Cone Engineering R&D program about 14 +/- years ago. It started life as a large bologna shaped & chromed muffler for the big HD road bikes. I did change it slightly by completely removing the outer shell, and I've just used the inside which is the actual muffler. Besides I just REALLY like its shape. 8-) It does have a straight through core of 1.75", with dual coil passageways around the core. Those passageways are made in slightly different size/shape. The muffler works well in low-mid range with a nice low rumble which builds in the upper range. It does aide, noticeably, in the prevention of the backfiring of the engine if/when jetting/tuning may not be perfect in some part of the range.

I did have a '09 S40 that I put both the chromed trumpet style and the quite core muffler on the bike. I liked them both. The trumpet looked very good and sounded great but it was loud. The quiet muffler looked good in the brushed SS, the welds perfect, good strong steel, and it had a nice low rumble when idling and it increased gently as you reached the high range. It was never what I think of as loud, just a nice rumble all the way.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by verslagen1 on 02/06/19 at 09:40:56

70757F636E1A0 wrote:

[quote author=607364657A7771737827160 link=1549218838/15#16 date=1549408127]I put the quieter reverse cone on beast but I'm still working thru some issues.

Vers! I've been meaning to inquire about your items, but first!

What issues have you been having with the quieter baffle?

Back to the items as I'd like to fix the issues before they rear their ugly heads. So as I understand, your chain tensioner+head plug total around $200? It's on my list just as soon as I find the cash! [/quote]

No issues with the muffler.
but be forewarned, he does not sell a muffler ready to mount to the savage.
I welded on my own adapter and mounting rail.

No new adjusters available at the moment... waiting for a sale.
recycled adjuster = $120, $40 rebate when you send in your core.
plugs are $20

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/06/19 at 10:12:53

Solid advice you two. Thank you.

So with the jet kit on the way, and probably a cone muffler coming after that, I'm going to call up my buddy and see if he still wants to do a header for me. ;D Overall excited.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by verslagen1 on 02/06/19 at 10:23:17

20252F333E4A0 wrote:

Would he like to make 2? 8-)

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/06/19 at 10:37:57

I'll ask him! 1.5" header. Im undecided yet if I'd like to ask him to copy the original header, or something more similar to the Ryca one. He can be a bigger grump than I. :o

Edit 2/8
A quieter cone is on the way, 1.5". My buddy got busy, and is unavailable to whip up a header. Can't blame him with his situation.
Any muffler shop should be able to weld one up, correct? Is there an off the shelf flange anybody knows of that I might be able to take to them or would they be able to copy the one on the bike?

It's hard to find a place in LA that will do the job these days.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/09/19 at 15:53:19

I hate to bump the topic without any progress, however I've run into a problem.

I took the bike out for a short ride to stretch her legs after sitting out rain the past couple weeks. I held the throttle open a bit to get her started up with choke pulled(she almost started without choke.) Let her warm up, she wanted to die at idle a few times.

After warmed up, I rode around the neighborhood giving varying degrees of throttle. Runs just fine, then I come to a stop. She died a second before stop. Okay, start her again and go round the block. Stop, she stalls again. I recreated this issue several times. Never seen a bike do this.

My gut tells me:

1. Idle set too low. Increase idle a little bit.
2. The lean status is causing this.
3. Sitting outside, despite under shelter, caused moisture to gather in the tank? Fresh tank would fix this, I reckon?

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by engineer on 02/09/19 at 17:53:20

I haven't read this entire thread so possibly someone has already brought this up but your problems sound like a stock fuel petcock failing. Most people eventually switch to a Raptor petcock. In the tech section there is a thread that explains how to replace it.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/09/19 at 19:49:54

57555E555C555943300 wrote:

New one ordered. Thank you for the observation. I forgot the original one is probably 22 years old. ::)

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by Matchless G11 on 02/10/19 at 05:58:16

If the stock petcock was failing, it may have been weeping (on) without the engine vacuum, check your oil level to see if it has gone up, smell your oil also if it smells like gas. Change it if so, even a little bit of gas in oil is bad.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/10/19 at 07:38:03

4F5658580E0E4D5A4B5A5C540C0B0A3F0 wrote:

I will change the oil when I swap over to the new petcock. If the oil has gas mixed in, should I also be worried about the piston rings not sealing correctly?

Edit 2/12/19
Few more things on the way. Petcock is already here. Nobody local seems to stock a KN137 and I'm too lazy to drive 10 miles to the Suzuki dealer for a filter. Soon as the vacuum caps and fresh fuel line is here I'll be swapping petcock. Shortly thereafter oil change. I'm glad I put that off until this possible issue showed up. Typically I service a used vehicle as soon as it's bought. Shell T4 w/ no additives based on whatever I could find online from 2017 onward. Certain topics suggest it sits at 1200ppm zinc(or did between 17-18.)

Two different 180 prebent tubes(3" and 6" radius) arriving tomorrow and muffler day after that. I might have just enough time to measure and mark where to cut. Local shop said they'd do it for $30 as long as they dont have to measure a thing.

Hopefully the tube will suffice. It seems the Ryca header has a short straight section right at the flange.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/14/19 at 09:52:22

Tube's in, looks good. Would anybody know if I should have the muffler shop weld the tube to the flange or cut a short bit of 1.5" ID pipe to weld to the tube(I believe thats how Suzuki and Ryca have done theirs)? Has anybody done anything similar?

I think I've seen it welded directly to the flange, and I would gladly edit this post with a link to the bobber build I'm referring to if it's okay to link to outside websites/blogs.

Also, to pull the air fuel mix plug, is 3/32" required or may I use a 1/8" bit? Alternatively I think I have some tiny self tapping screws in the garage.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by norm92de on 02/14/19 at 13:57:52

Joeyt,
I'm sure you have been warned about not letting the drill go too deep when you drill the brass plug.

I put a sleeve on the drill so only a small portion of the drill was exposed.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/14/19 at 21:17:28

21203D22767D2B2A4F0 wrote:

Joeyt,
I'm sure you have been warned about not letting the drill go too deep when you drill the brass plug.

I put a sleeve on the drill so only a small portion of the drill was exposed.

Yes, sir. Thank you for the reminder. I was intending to use duct tape or spot weld a washer on a junk bit to act as a collar.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/15/19 at 10:06:57

My father volunteered to swap the petcock this morning while I had an emergency trip to the doctor's. Turns out a combination of ghost pepper, tequila, and grease now causes me severe pain a few hours later. Ohhh the karma. Anyway..

The bike starts right up with the Raptor petcock, without needing to fiddle with the throttle to get her going. One observation he made when getting to the vacuum side, is that the carb doesn't seem to have a line for a EPA canister. Take a look. If this is correct, did the '96 models not have them yet or could I possibly have a 49 state savage and not know it?

I'm referencing to post #15 in the carb spec thread for comparison.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1098869040/15

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by verslagen1 on 02/15/19 at 10:32:00

I have a '96 and it has it.
Even the '88 had it.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/15/19 at 10:43:31

140710110E0305070C53620 wrote:

I have a '96 and it has it.
Even the '88 had it.

Then I may have lucked out! Thank you again Vers! Hey, I'll be changing oil sometime next week and am thinking it's a good idea to pull the cover and check the chain tensioner. Will I need a OEM gasket, or would RTV suffice? Anything else to check while I'm in there? ::)

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by norm92de on 02/15/19 at 11:40:58

Joeyt,
The thickness of the stock white plastic spacer is .110 in case you need to know. Also, Mikuni on their other carbs, not ours, use grooves on the needle which are .035" apart which gives us an idea of what the manufacturer considers an adjustment standard.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by verslagen1 on 02/15/19 at 11:46:58

51545E424F3B0 wrote:

Will I need a OEM gasket, or would RTV suffice? Anything else to check while I'm in there? ::)

RTV can work, but never had any luck myself.
clutch rod projection, and condition. depending how old it is, some get burrs. I like to have 12 to 12.5 mm projecting out of the pack.
check the clutch lever position before you open it.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/15/19 at 15:48:57

Thank you all for the tips!

I just got off the phone with the shop that had said they'd do my header pipe. They backed out for whatever reason! And here I am sitting around with an unexpected check. Hmm.. getting the pipe made seems to be a hassle.

I have a 1.5" muffler. Too lazy to exchange for 1 3/4".

Two options I'm considering, what would you guys do?

1. Cave and order the beautiful Ryca header. I believe it's 1 3/4" tube. Have a shop expand muffler to fit. Maybe put a lollipop in the header if the muffler doesn't provide enough back pressure.

2. Give up altogether. Still expand the muffler to fit the stock header.

Is it better to go muffler smaller than header or larger than header? The carb will be rejetted as soon as I get the exhaust sorted, I swear! Love you for your carb kit btw, Mr. Lancer!

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by batman on 02/15/19 at 23:08:59

Muffler craziness ! That's why we recommend the Dyna muffler because it's a bolt on needing no mods and it works with a little carb tuning, A smaller muffler may tend to act like a straight pipe ,not letting the gas expand at the end of the header pipe . A lollypop in the header pipe ? You might as well use a potato . You should do a bit more research on intake and exhaust tuning, trying to rig a custom exhaust is more complicated than you think ,most mufflers and pipes are design by companies that do nothing else , and they have been at it for years. Some new companies like Ryca make some of the worst I've ever seen, but they look good. With only 31 hp stock, you can't afford an exhaust system that 's loud, makes the bike run badly most of the time, and ends up making less power.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by LANCER on 02/16/19 at 03:53:43

I would not not go smaller than a 1 5/8” OD & 1 1/2” ID for a stock engine. If planning engine mod’s later you might as well do the 1 3/4”OD &
1 5/8”ID pipe. Do not make the header shorter that a stock header and if longer don’t add more that 3-4”.
It can be done on the cheap by getting a piece of pipe from a muffler shop 4’ long. When I got mine it came as an 8’ piece so I had a spare piece left. Cut the head off of an old header and take that, the pipe and your bike to a welder or muffler shop and have them copy your stock header shape & check it on the bike, have the head welded on and recheck fit, and if needed tweak the shape & length until you like the fit. The whole process took about an hour at the shop. $20 for the pipe and $40 for the welding and bending.
He can swag the end too if you like.

“Works good, lasts looong time GI” [ch128513][ch127482][ch127480][ch128105][ch8205][ch128640][ch127894][ch9876][ch65039]

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by Eegore on 02/16/19 at 08:51:18

"With only 31 hp stock, you can't afford an exhaust system that 's loud, makes the bike run badly most of the time, and ends up making less power. "

This is correct from my experience. I currently own three of these bikes and the one with a Harley Dyna outperforms easily the one with a straight pipe. This being the only difference between those two bikes.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by NRR Boot on 02/16/19 at 17:49:12

Sent you a private message...

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/18/19 at 12:02:42

Boy this weekend was busy busy. Welp, exhaust troubles will be addressed sometime this week or next. I really like the cone muffler, so I'm being a little hardheaded about it.

Fresh oil and filter hopefully tonight to solve the gas in crankcase issue, then I'm just going to ride it as is this week with the lack of rain. Would it be necessary to flush oil again after a few dozen miles? Im not sure if these engines have nooks for old oil to stay in after a change.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by batman on 02/18/19 at 17:51:03

What little gas that might be in the oil trapped in the oil passages , should evaporate the first time the motor reaches temperature.( gas evaporates at 89F your oil reaches 270+F in the bottom of the motor).

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by verslagen1 on 02/18/19 at 19:59:23

4241544D414E1418200 wrote:

or an air leak in your header or muffler joints.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/24/19 at 11:32:53

Happy to report I changed the oil(old stuff jet black and sorta gritty, yikes) and sorted the stalling on decel/stop issue. I upped the idle screw. I read somewhere that it being adjusted correctly will pull you 8-10mph in first gear throttle off, correct? I'm sitting at 10. Turns out there really wasn't much gas in the oil, maybe .5qt opposed to the gallon or more thought previously.

I did however notice that there's a leak at the header as well, and a few other places that could be either built up crap, or leaks. There's smoke coming out of what seems to be the exhaust port. New gasket will be installed at time of swapping muffler.

I'm going to either degrease the engine when it cools(and find my garden hose) or ride it to work next weekend and steam clean it there. All in all, I'm glad to have made a little progress and ride it. ;D

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/19 at 11:49:23

When you're done shooting high pressure water at it, and it won't start, you'll have a time figuring out what got wet. IF that happens.
I would not aim a pressure wand at any seals. Including the oring on the clutch arm.
Against all the instructions I always leave engines running when I start hosing them off. That way if it stumbles or dies I know what I was getting wet when it happened. Remember to jack up the sidestand enough to keep the cam oiling and don't piddle around if you go that way.
The engine degreaser might be a good idea, but I don't know what it would do to the clear coat.
Some Dawn dishwashing liquid in a spray bottle, let it soak, a waterhose rinse, repeat, might be a good answer.
I migrate tired home and kitchen brushes to the shop. A brush that fits glasses is handy, toothbrushes are great for the fins.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 02/24/19 at 12:31:24

Justin, you're the nicest realist I've talked to. Low pressure garden hose and dish soap it is with an old toilet brush. ;D

I'll keep the degreaser for any difficult spots on the engine casing.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/19 at 15:46:47

Thanks for the kind words.
Remember to spot test before giving it a big dose.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/19 at 15:53:28

Toilet brush may be a good start, but smaller radius stuff might be your friend.
Don't try to scrub clean on the first pass.
Water in the bottle, add dawn, wet it, might hit the parts that drain off again, let it sit, thirty minutes of soaking is easier than rubbing. Brush it off, soak it again,,
That's how I clean the shower. Well, I get In the shower when I'm ready to argue with the junk the water deposits..
anyway, you don't have to win on the first pass.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 03/03/19 at 09:59:06

Washed the engine a bit to get some grime off and took a few short videos to give you guys an idea of how she's running. There's a tick in one of the videos. I was holding her up for two of them, on the kick stand for one. Some of the smoke is probably steam, but the one by the exhaust port is what I mentioned the other day. It was smoking. Gut says head plug. I'm hoping it ain't. There's a rattle as well.

https://youtu.be/W_83_-lsFjo

https://youtu.be/DaR2RPYt9Mw

https://youtu.be/bRc0FDkbAzc

Also I had a muffler shop prep the muffler to fit on the bike. We overlooked the angle on the stock muffler, annnnd.. I'm going back to have him make an adapter for that. ::)

Here's how she's sitting now, crappy header wrap job and all. Finally cleared some space in the garage. ;D

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by ohiomoto on 03/04/19 at 04:23:34

Based on you videos, it looks like you need to do the head plug, adjust the valves and hope your cam isn't toast. When you get done, loosen the header pipe, move it around a little until you feel it sitting square against the header gasket and then tighten everything back up.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 03/04/19 at 17:42:39

2A2D2C2A282A312A450 wrote:

Does the header look eskew? I'll double check it anyway.

Replacement head plug ordered. Is red or copper rtv recommended for sealing the cover? I gotta say, I've read some of the resources on this fix and while I feel confident I can get the job done, it's a little unnerving as I've never torn a motorcycle engine apart or done valves. It can all be done on the bike correct? Anything to adjust after getting it all back together?I don't have to drain the oil to do the job I'm sure, or will I? Logic says its sitting down low.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/19 at 20:28:34

Is red or copper rtv recommended for sealing the cover?
Neither.
Get a semiliquid. Hondabond , Yamanond, and you gotta be careful about the application.
You're setting the clearance between the cam journals and the head and cover.
Plenty of reading and preparation for this.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 03/04/19 at 22:04:25

67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:

Pencil thin bead of sealant, correct? Also, the clearance statement refers to setting/adjusting the valves correct? I was reading up on Verslagen's(I believe) write up concerning valves. It seems simple enough. ;)

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/19 at 22:11:23

No.
Journals.
Fat sealer equals loose tolerances for the cam journals in the head.
Not good.
There are places to not apply sealer.
There is a central bolt that must be In the head cover as you set it. A corner bolt that's upside down, IIRC.
And fergoodniss sake make three or four careful, gentle passes with a short 1/4" ratchet.
It's easy to feel the bolts hit their
Clamping torque,
It's easier to fix a leak than a wrecked bolt.

In order to not have a puzzle going together,draw the shape of head cover on cardboard and put a slice for every bolt. Stuff the bolts in the slots.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 03/05/19 at 18:43:35

Little bit of an update on the muffler progress. Stopped by the shop on my way home from work and went "I told you so. ::)" The guy was more than happy to grab a piece of tubing and ask what degree bend is needed and how long to make either end. I had him leave one end long so that we may shorten it later. The tube is maybe 4-6" long so I might have him chop enough to just fit it on the header. Test fitted and I kinda like the length after seeing it, kinda feel like it needs 2" off. What do y'all think?

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 03/09/19 at 18:38:35

Im in the middle of tearing the valve cover off, and before I go any further I'd like to ask for direction. I'm following the how to on this forum and have all the bolts off except the center one. I realized I should've found TDCC beforehand, and was wondering, is it easier to find it before the cover is off or after? I was intending to follow Serowbot's method of watching/feeling the intake rockers.

In other words, is it possible to find where I need to be by the camshaft position? If so, what would that position be?

Boy some of those bolts are in really tight spots, especially the two under the valve inspection covers. The baseball mitts glued to my wrists dont help either! :o ::)

Edit next morning: Cover's back on and torqued down. Just trying to find the energy to adjust the valves before I button it all back up. That head cover is tight as all heck to fit through the frame!

Also, at this point, I think I'm going to do the spark plug door mod, just trying to find a spare bolt in my bolt box to decapitate.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 03/29/19 at 12:16:09

Little update to mention I'm still alive. Life got in the way and I couldn't work on the bike for a little while. Still haven't adjusted the valves. I need to do brakes on the car then get back to the bike.

A buddy dropped off a spare dinky emgo muffler he didn't need that he had repacked with ceramic packing. I don't think I'll use it, but hey, free parts! He claims it didn't sound that loud on his Indian, though I'm skeptical.

Y'all ain't kidding about how tight it is to get the valves adjusted. My fat, amateur hands are an obstacle.

Things left to do:
Adjust valves.
Fit muffler.
Clean/rejet carb
Enjoy the Cali sun on two wheels.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/29/19 at 13:04:37

I take the leaf out of the feeler gauge and bend it to a Z shape and put a bit of a ski trip on the end.
You need to hold the adjuster with an offset screwdriver while you snug the nut. When you do that, it will raise the adjuster up, tight against the threads. Depending on how sloppy they are, it could slightly affect the adjustment.
The 05 had pretty loose threads and was a bit fiddly.
Having a magnet handy to retrieve the feeler gauge when you drop it can sure save a trip to the toolbox.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 04/09/19 at 10:37:15

Little update. I adjusted valves over the weekend. Found TDC by watching the intake valves open and feeling the weight on the piston shaft(terminology?) drop down as soon as the valves closed, and lined up the notches in the inspection port. Adjusted them so that .005 had a fair bit of friction to go in, but .004 went in and moved with a little less friction. Should be somewhere between the two now.

Fitted the dinky emgo after repacking with ceramic and what a waste pf packing. Without muffler the bike sounded deep and angry. With what I'm assuming the 1" ID emgo baffle has there was a nasty, loud as my ex blatty sound. I was going to install the cone engineering, but the muffler guy for whatever reason expanded the adapter. I fear there's too much slop now to make an airtight seal. Welp, I'll chop off the adapter later and keep the cone engineering for another project.

"I should've listened to the wiser gentlemen.." said Joey rather sheepishly as he sourced a Dyna muffler, which was a steal and will soon arrive. ;D :-[

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 05/25/19 at 16:28:01

Another update. Dyna muffler's on, opened up the carb today. It looked fairly clean, but the main jet washer was missing.... Where might i find one in LA?

Installed Lancer's screw set, and rejetted based on Lancer's recommendations and other forum members experiences. 145 to 150 main, 2 washers on needle, and I replaced the mangled 52.5 with the prettier one from lancers kit(sorry Lance, I know you said 50!)
Also removed A/F plug and reinstalled carb with Ryca's flat filter.. I need filter oil.

Will be looking at ghetto rigging a plate along the bottom of frame to push battery mounting back between frame rails, and a small box to put electronics.. all in due time. Cant wait to get her fired up!!! 2pm rolled around and I went "Oh crap I gotta be other side of town in 10 minutes! :o"

Also.. I'd like to swingarm mount a fender, but have no welding skills. Is there anyplace on the swingarm to drill and tap a couple holes for a bracket that won't compromise structural integrity? I saw it mentioned in an old thread somewhere, but couldn't find where or how or if it has actually been done before.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by norm92de on 05/25/19 at 18:01:16

The passenger footpeg holes look like they might work for attaching a fender without cutting and welding.

Title: Re: Joeyt's Bike Build
Post by joeyt on 05/31/19 at 12:14:12

I'll have to try that! Good idea!

Any if the long timers happen to have any closer pictures or a build log of DiamondJim's old bike? I'm interested in the plate he did to hide the framework. If he had mentioned dimensions to anybody or thickness of material used it would be a great starting point. I couldn't find anything except for a picture of the bike on another forum.