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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> If it's immoral to use a wall /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1545764356 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 10:59:16 |
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Title: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 10:59:16 To force people to utilize our immigration system in order to get in, isn't it just as immoral to utilize men and technology to achieve the same thing? Looks like a demand for open borders to me. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/25/18 at 11:14:44 Who said it's immoral to use a physical wall? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 12:14:32 Tons of lefties, Pelosi among others. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/25/18 at 13:31:53 I haven't seen anything stating they mean the physical structure, can you provide a reference? From what I see it's about the implementation of policy, like the adult only detention process that made so much news coverage about separating alleged families, not the physical concrete. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 14:06:39 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/nancy-pelosi-border-wall-immoral-expensive-unwise-n749841 |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/25/18 at 18:16:14 "The wall is, in my view, immoral, expensive, unwise, and when the president says, 'Well, I promised a wall during my campaign.' I don’t think he said he was going to pass billions of dollars of cost of the wall on to the taxpayer" I'm not sure this means concrete is not ok and other means are. This appears to be a blanket statement of the "Wall" and not a physical concrete structure only. How are you coming to the conclusion that this refers exclusively to a physical wall and not funding in general that reflects any means implemented by the requested funding? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 19:36:53 I read words and don't get confused. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/25/18 at 19:41:28 So you just believe she means only a concrete wall. I do not believe she means only a concrete wall. Or more specifically I do not believe there is enough information to say she is not ok with the wall, but is ok with other means. I think she is against the idea of that much funding going to border security in general. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 20:18:12 That's your choice. The words say otherwise. The wall is, in my view, immoral, expensive, unwise, and when the president says, 'Well, I promised a wall during my campaign.' I don’t think he said he was going to pass billions of dollars of cost of the wall on to the taxpayer" Show me a reference to Anything other than an actual wall. She even referenced the campaign promise For a wall. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/25/18 at 21:59:44 "Show me a reference to Anything other than an actual wall." That's why I said this: "Or more specifically I do not believe there is enough information to say she is not ok with the wall, but is ok with other means." To clarify: She does in the referenced statement indicate clearly that she finds a complete physical wall "immoral" among other terms. However in my assessment this does not exclude other methods as there is no reference, again: there is no reference, that she is ok with other means. My understanding is that you are indicating that a wall is considered immoral, but other means is ok. I see no reason to believe that other means is ok, or that by saying that a wall is immoral that means all other methods are ok. Simply put, all other methods besides a wall haven't been addressed. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 22:12:27 425D5B5C41467747774F5D511A280 wrote:
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/25/18 at 22:31:10 I don't think there's enough information available that indicates other means is acceptable when directly contrasted against a physical wall method. Its clear that a physical wall was called immoral, but it is not clear that drones are considered moral. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 22:35:51 I didn't SAY she DECLARED other means moral. But, This is a Thought, a QUESTION,,, IF, IF, IF a WALL is immoral, WHY is it immoral? Well, shucks, It keeps people who want in from just sneaking in, doesn't it? If THAT'S immoral, then aren't ALL forms of stopping people from crossing illegally? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/25/18 at 22:47:56 "If THAT'S immoral, then aren't ALL forms of stopping people from crossing illegally? " Maybe. To call a wall immoral is a stretch for sure but I feel poisoning the water supply of communities where immigrants are most likely to come from is more immoral. Shipping food, clean water, outsourcing jobs and medical care to communities where immigrants are likely to come from is less immoral. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 23:16:54 I didn't ASK for YOU to agree that a wall is immoral. She's saying that. Now, can you answer the question? I didn't ask about poison Or food I'm talking about Enforcing the LAW by using technology and people to STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM SNEAKING IN IF, READ THIS IF it's immoral to use a wall Isn't it just as immoral to stop them from entering using other methods? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 23:20:27 IF it's immoral to use a wall Isn't it just as immoral to stop them from entering using other methods? It CAN'T be more succinctly asked. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/18 at 23:23:04 213E383F22251424142C3E32794B0 wrote:
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/26/18 at 02:18:44 "Now, can you answer the question?" I did: Maybe. To clarify I feel that there is a possibility that a physical wall, if it is established that it will be considered immoral, that all other means and methods could be immoral. In my answer I stated varying degrees of immoral action as an example of what would cause me to say maybe. Maybe meaning the possibility exists, but in different degrees, and in general I do not feel that by not liking one method that means one can no longer like any method. "Isn't it just as immoral to stop them from entering using other methods?" I mentioned "other methods", are you indicating "specific methods" and if so what are they? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/26/18 at 05:58:48 On one hand, I find the idea of a Wall abhorrent. On the other hand, I see America citizens murdered, theft, robbery, rapes committed by those who should be here. And don't be a fool and say Americas commit these crimes too because that's a stupid argument you'd never accept in your own households. Wages have been depressed in some segments and lower wage America citizens are losing out. I see the promise of votes giving power to one party and the lust for that tells me any electronic border security will be subject to whomever is in office. Build The Wall. Secure the border. Don't tell me you can secure the border using other methods because my retort is to say okay, fine, do both. Build a Wall and use other methods to make the border even more secure. And don't bring up the cost because 5 billion dollars is chump change to the Federal Government. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/26/18 at 08:38:30 7B5B59514C5B3E0 wrote:
No, you did not. You, ’spun, changed, deflected’, the question. Was it because you believe their should be not wall ? Was it just because you think you can F with JOG ? Don’t know. The question was: “…Is it immoral, To force people to utilize our immigration system in order to get in, isn’t it just as immoral to utilize men and technology to achieve the same thing?…” The Wall = Concrete, Cement, Iron, Steel, Wire, Posts, Wood, twine string on rusty ’T’ posts, and even be a dusty trail, following a border, which is patrolled, by people/electronic means. A Wall, can be a structure, or a electronic metering system. Whichever is less expensive to maintain, and or up grade. To which the second part comes in: “…isn’t it just as immoral to utilize men and technology to achieve the same thing?…” So, the very basic question, If you call a, ‘wall, Immoral’ then as stated, is sure does look: “…Looks like a demand for open borders to me …” It is real simple, the TDS people, are TDS'ing at all costs. Because when their, 'loved' one/s, were for, a wall, see description above, (forcing people to utilize our immigration system), the same people, were all for it. Yet when Trump, whether it is on foot crossing legally, or by Rail/Plane, or by forging passports, then just disappearing, or having a legal passport, then gain entry, then NO CHECKING, after they have overstayed their Visa. It is all wrong. That is PURE, TDS. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/26/18 at 08:58:51 "The Wall = Concrete, Cement, Iron, Steel, Wire, Posts, Wood, twine string on rusty ’T’ posts, and even be a dusty trail, following a border, which is patrolled, by people/electronic means. A Wall, can be a structure, or a electronic metering system. Whichever is less expensive to maintain, and or up grade." Incorrect. If you were to read the referenced article it specifically states "complete wall" and indicates a complete physical wall. The content of our conversation. "Is it immoral, To force people to utilize our immigration system in order to get in, isn’t it just as immoral to utilize men and technology to achieve the same thing." It might be. The problem is that the question is assuming that all forms of border control are the exact same level of morality. If that is what is being presented then yes it is immoral to use any border control at all, but only if we are considering absolutely any form of border enforcement to be equal in moral evaluation. Again, if that's the case, then yes, but instead of talking about this you guys get defensive and go down the insult path instead of having an adult conversation. So are we saying that all forms of border control maintain the same level of moral assessment? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/26/18 at 09:13:31 might be. The problem is that the question is assuming that all forms of border control are the exact same level of morality. No. Stop. I'm not saying anything about the METHOD. It's a given that nobody be intentionally harmed. If you can stop over intellectualizing and stick with the actual words, it's a very simple question. Sadly, it's gonna force the honest truth to demonstrate that A wall is no more immoral than effective border control using the very methods you say can be implemented and not build a wall. What you won't address is the politicization of the actual enforcement of the laws. I'm tired of the cycle these topics take. It's all good until a lefty answers. Then it's on Spin cycle. Quit torturing the words. It's not complicated. Maybe you get scared when I throw out a point that requires you to answer based on principle. Especially when I demonstrate what a load of absolute schitt the left are pushing. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/26/18 at 10:17:38 A wall doesn't arrest, or Horrors! Separate children from their parents who have been arrested for Breaking the law, which happens to children in America EVERY day. There is no way to enforce the law and NOT have it be as immoral as a wall. Of course, a wall ISN'T immoral. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/26/18 at 10:22:36 If you can stop over intellectualizing and stick with the actual words, it's a very simple question. Correct. Build a wall. Secure the border. It's the simplest of all issues. We all lock our doors at night or if we're in certain crime free areas, its a certainty that if we weren't in such an area, everyone would lock their doors. We don't let people just decided to pitch a tent in our yard and live there. It's a given that ALL of us grant permission to anyone before they enter our house. And that permission is based upon criteria that may differ a little between each of us, but universally, we don't let people into our house without some level of comfort they are safe, their length of stay is agreed upon before hand, we understand our financial obligation etc.... Politicians (and let's face it, Republicans turned a blind eye to illegal immigration because of cheap labor and Democrats because of cheap votes) don't have to deal with those ramifications. You think you can just walk up to Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi's house? Go ahead, try to set up a tent on Nancy's lawn or decide you want to climb the fence and walk around her winery. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/26/18 at 12:05:48 A wall is no more immoral than effective border control using the very methods you say can be implemented and not build a wall. What you won't address is the politicization of the actual enforcement of the laws. You didn't say anything about politicization, you very specifically directed the topic to be exclusively about the morality of a physical wall in contrast to alternate methods. You now say it isn't about methods: "I'm not saying anything about the METHOD." But before that was the very direct question posed: "Isn't it just as immoral to stop them from entering using other methods?" Again I am saying: Maybe. Maybe a wall is equally immoral as alternate methods, but I believe that if we were to compare methods we would find varying degrees of morality. If you are saying all morality involving any form of border control is already established as being immoral, then of course the answer is yes. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/26/18 at 12:26:28 794B4C5D5A4B5C634F5C452E0 wrote:
Aw-sum. A fence around her winery. Let’s get some people together, to cut through/break down the fence, Then walk to the center of the winery, erect tents. Then when someone comes to chase them off. Demand to be fed. Demand to have health care. Demand to have some spending money. Demand to have a free ride back to the fence. Then stand out side the fence, and when the, ‘officials' leave, do the same thing over and over and over. Until, that, winery grounds, are declared a, “Sanctuary Wine”, grounds. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/26/18 at 16:47:37 E, you're surprising me. I really didn't expect to see you reach so low. When I'm gone, know you played a role. Such intellectual dishonesty from you disappoints me. YOU are the one who brought OTHER THAN METHODS THAT YOU ALREADY SAID WERE IN BOUNDS, Into the picture. You're as twisted as the other lefties. You can't accept the question, because you'll be backed into a corner. INSTEAD OF REBELLING LEARN YOU'RE WRONG. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/26/18 at 18:38:09 None of that made sense to me. Again you refuse to acknowledge I agreed with you, but since I don't blindly agree you get offended and complain instead of having an adult conversations. Again..... Again: YES. YES. To clarify: Yes means I agree with JoG. I agree with JoG that IF, IF, IF we take the physical wall and say implementation of a physical wall is immoral, AND say that any inclusion of border security is equivocal to a physical wall then YES, YES , YES all other forms of border security is immoral. IF, IF, IF we say a physical wall is immoral and thus all border security is immoral then YES, YES, YES, all forms of border security is immoral. But I don't think all forms of border security are equal in regards to morality. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/26/18 at 19:28:58 I'd sure hate to disagree if THAT'S what agreement looks like. You're as twisted as the others. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/26/18 at 19:49:12 You refuse to acknowledge when I agree with you. Don't pretend I wasn't copying your method of communication with the repetitive capital words. Just as in this topic I have said that yes, if we say all forms of border control are equal in morality then yes, they are all immoral. I mean really if a proposed question states the answer then how hard can it be to state what the answer is? I don't think all forms of border control are equal in morality, but that gets you upset, so instead of having a conversation you complain. At least this time you refrained from the insults. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by thumperclone on 12/28/18 at 05:01:59 she is entitled to her opinion morality is an abstraction some believe its immoral to: kill animals to eat cuss flip the bird eat bacon not follow the teachings their religion we need a sensible policy 5b is a waste tunnels are found under barriers all the time |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/28/18 at 06:48:34 The man suspected of fatally shooting a police officer in Stanislaus County was in the country illegally, officials said Thursday. Why are we even having this discussion about a wall? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/28/18 at 07:05:54 "Why are we even having this discussion about a wall? " Its about the cost of a complete physical wall when it is well known that there are more efficient methods in areas where a physical wall will be less effective. Border Security is good, but not allowing the people who do it to have input is not good. For some reason in this case people who have never been to the border have a superior solution than those that do, and those that study it consistently. You have made it clear that cost is not a factor, that CBP for some reason will employ fewer people even though I have seen no evidence that only a concrete wall will stop people from using ladders, tunnels or other means, especially if the area is not monitored at all. Also you have stated you believe an unmonitored wall will be effective if future administrations pull funding or prohibit the use of modern tech like drones, sensors, FLIR or active vehicle patrols. So using your parameters a wall is a solution, cost is not a factor, and people can't pass an unattended wall so in that case a wall should be put up. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/28/18 at 08:38:54 Its about the cost of a complete physical wall when it is well known that there are more efficient methods in areas where a physical wall will be less effective. That's Bull$hit. It is not well known. It is stated as an unchallengeable fact so never challenged. Secondly, as I've said repeatedly, anything less than a physical barrier requires people to maintain security. Any future administration could (and will) limit the security thus rendering it useless. Do both. Build a wall and upgrade security. It is a simple solution. There is no legitimate reason not to. (other than the need for votes, cheap labor and the opportunity to oppose Trump) |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/28/18 at 09:11:01 584459415C495E4F404342492C0 wrote:
In this instance a simple thought experiment has already demonstrated that a wall is no more immoral than any kind hearted way used to stop ILLEGAL ENTRY INTO OUR COUNTRY. By her logic there is NO border control that Is moral. So,her statement is nothing more than posturing and an attempt to rouse opposition based on some Bullshit claims. need a sensible policy 5b is a waste tunnels are found under barriers all the time There's an opinion. We need a wall. Nobody has been willing to address the politicization of the ENFORCEMENT of border control Laws. It varies, depending on who is in office. THAT'S WHY right Now we're getting all these great potential solutions that would be used so we don't NEED a wall. BULLSHIT. They can use some of that brilliant technology to monitor the wall and keep tunnels from being dug. And, right Now, long tunnels exist. They have been found. Let's get cracking on the technology. You Say the cost is a waste. But I've seen the cost of open borders. Funny how much correlation there is between nafta, and the open borders, and homelessness there is. Pretending they aren't related requires an ability for mental gymnastics. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/28/18 at 09:39:17 4D6D6F677A6D080 wrote:
Do not believe so. First, to counter the ‘spin’. One does not need to be a Engineer, to know that water flows downhill. A physical structure, can be breached. Do not reinvent the wheel, take a lesson. The Berlin Wall, The, ‘wall’ slowed down crossing. Did not stop, but greatly slowed down. Greatly. So a Wall, as Bot is so fond of saying, ‘Ladders’. Yep. But what is on the other side ? Or is their razor wire at the top? If a ladder is brought to a remote area, and a wire cutter, and heavy gloves. The wire on top can be cut. A rope or ladder can be lowered to the other side. And the wall can be breached. As the Ultra Lefties are fond of pointing out, the solution is just no wall, because their are ladders and wire cutters, so why bother, just let them come in when/how ever they want. (After all the LEFT, Needs those Illegal Votes) Wait ! A section, no wall, that has ‘sensors’, (ground vibration sensors are in play at the North Boarder), so a ground sensor is in play, remember no wall, so BP is notified of the crossing, they rush to the place. And no one is their. They have all crossed, so now the BP, has to expend all sorts of manpower to, ‘try’ to find them as they are all scattered about and hiding. Now their is a wall. The sensors go off, BP goes their, and guess what. A bunch of people with ladders, and wire cutters are found. (Same with tunneling) Just as the Mental Giants decided to put $310,000.00 of Solar Panels on a roof, that needed to be re-roofed in 5 years. The same, Mental Giants, are saying no wall, no security. Tell everyone to go to Nancy’s vineyard, and set up camp. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/28/18 at 09:45:28 322D2B2C31360737073F2D216A580 wrote:
I have see figures of the cost of Illegals crossing the boarder, is 3+ times higher, than building a wall. Haven't seen any Ultra Lefty saying that is wrong, because of this study or that study ? Nancy, can you tell me why it is NOT, immoral, to have a wall around, YOUR property. And to have security people patrol it? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/28/18 at 10:58:04 Nobody has been willing to address the politicization of the ENFORCEMENT of border control Laws. It varies, depending on who is in office. THAT'S WHY right Now we're getting all these great potential solutions that would be used so we don't NEED a wall. BULLSHIT. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/28/18 at 11:30:24 "Do not believe so. First, to counter the ‘spin’. One does not need to be a Engineer, to know that water flows downhill." Again, why is it that people with zero experience with this know better than the people on the ground and the very thourough third-party research methods? Why in this instance is CBP considered unable to analyze and come up with the most accurate methods to do their own job? Why is a guy at a keyboard, or in an office in DC a better authority? "WHY right Now we're getting all these great potential solutions that would be used so we don't NEED a wall. BULLSHIT" Partially, but the CBP, ICE, and DEA have been requesting that funding be allocated for alternate methods for years. The very articles you posted here link to figures and staff that show they "can't do their job" based off of the "inappropriate and outdated equipment to do the job", these statements are made years before Trump even announced running for President. So if CBP, ICE, DEA etc. have made comparison that methods in use by the US Navy, Marines and Coast Guard in the region are superior, due to the equipment and allocation of resources, which the US Navy has confirmed, which have been requested for a decade, how can we now say that the requests for better methods are due to the complete physical wall proposal? Nobody in an office somewhere is telling the US Navy how to spend their money to keep people out of their responsible areas of operation, but for CBP well that's different, those guys are wrong, the guy in DC is right. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by LostArtist on 12/28/18 at 12:36:22 here's the deal, the wall is a first grade solution to an advanced economic 400 level globalization problem. is it a real solution.... maybe part of one... maybe... but when most of the illegals here came in LEGALLY... it's fixing a crack in the dam on one side while the dam is overflowing. but it's simple for people to understand, so they love it... cause THEY ARE STUPID. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/28/18 at 13:18:20 "but it's simple for people to understand, so they love it... cause THEY ARE STUPID" I agree with the first part. It is a simple idea, easy to grasp in concept and in some cases it works well. Why in areas that are low-traffic, mountainous and easy to monitor anyone would want to spend near triple per square foot drilling base for concrete is not so easy to understand. But then again a lot of people think its all flat prairie, I literally had to bring up 3D mapping to show people what kind of terrain is along the border because they insisted it was "flat" the entire way. I understand the appeal of a physical wall due to its simplicity, but the problem it is expected to solve is immensely complex, and humans react differently to fencing than cattle. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/28/18 at 13:52:03 74574B4C794A4C514B4C380 wrote:
but when most of the illegals here came in LEGALLY... Please explain how that works. Then when you are done, perhaps you can explain how one can, Legally, rob a bank ? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/28/18 at 14:52:18 0C3E39282F3E29163A29305B0 wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-fatal-shooting-california-officer-caught-after-manhunt-n952711 Can the UL's please tell us all again, exactaly how the, 'Sanctuary" States work ? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by batman on 12/28/18 at 22:08:22 When are we going to build a wall to keep the Canadians out? They cross our borders everyday ,and their stealing high paying jobs! It's funny that no one has ever been concerned about them. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/29/18 at 02:42:22 Yeah, millions of knucks, flooding in, living on our system, big problem with that. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/29/18 at 06:32:09 56554059555A000C340 wrote:
When I see comments like this, I wonder if someone is joking or is that obtuse. I'm not sure Bat, which is it? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by batman on 12/29/18 at 08:01:30 I was trying to show how silly it sounded to be spending 5 billion + on a wall that someone will find a way to go over, under , or around . What are we building Fortress America? what ever happened to "give me your poor ,or tired and your weak" America has become a runaway train ,flying off the rails ,and Trump is the engineer. Did the Berlin wall stop people from escaping ? If you think a wall will stop a determined people from entering this country to seek a better life ,than I think the dumbing down of America must be nearly complete . It is the people who think this wall will solve the problem that are obtuse. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/29/18 at 08:24:26 56554059555A000C340 wrote:
"...When are we going to build a wall to keep the Canadians out?..." Correct, their is no wall, to speak of. Their are sensors in the ground, that now can differentiate the differences between animal & human. "...They cross our borders everyday..." Yes they do, constantly, back and forth. "...and their stealing high paying jobs!..." That is absolutely, (well their may be a remote case), Incorrect ! What happens is, (In Minn), they bring gobs of Canadian Money, SPEND IT At M.O.A. or the Mayo. Then go home. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by batman on 12/29/18 at 08:41:15 So where do the illegal Mexicans spend their money , pay their rent, buy their cars, and food , and clothes ? Walmart ,(China) just like you and me. Maybe we should invest 5 billon in Mexican industry and buy our goods from them, raise their standard of living and you won't have to build a wall or support communism. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/29/18 at 08:48:55 3437223B3738626E560 wrote:
The, ... illegal ..., People, from N/S/E/W, do NOT spend, money. They TAKE, money from you. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/29/18 at 08:56:30 0300150C000F5559610 wrote:
What ? All people that, illegally, ’sneak’, into this country, are “Mexicans” ? That is SO, ‘Racist’ ! (very surprised the tt has not jumped all over you) |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by batman on 12/29/18 at 09:24:32 Mn ,you kill me ,we were taking about the wall across the Mexican border, and at no time did I say ALL illegals were Mexicans .those are your words not mine . I would like to know how much money the Mexicans have stolen from you personally.did you get rolled ? the fact that I would rather see 5 billion go to boosting the Mexican standard of living than to build a stupid wall , doesn't seem to ring true that I'm a racist ,just that I like to see my tax money spend on something other than the new "Great wall of America" . It does sadden me to see people who blindly support Trump in his quest to make America great again,as if a wall would help! |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/29/18 at 11:01:01 It saddens me to see such a bright fellow be so unable to remember how popular the idea was when democrats proposed it. You're ate up with it if you think my support for a wall is because Trump said it. My support for Trump was increased BY his support for what I have wanted for decades. You people don't understand why Trump was elected yet? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by batman on 12/29/18 at 12:15:09 JOG , I don't support the building of the wall no matter who proposes it, There is no evidence to support the longevity of any fixed instillation. They can all be circumvented. Locks only keep the good people out. Why not use our money to boost the economy of Mexico, do we have an open border with Canada because their rich and go home after sending their money , why can't we have the same with our southern neighbors .The only difference between a man and a thief is a job. If the Mexican people had decent paying jobs and a more promising future they wouldn't be trying to sneak into the country. Maybe it's time our leaders in D.C. showed a little bit more vision, and made NORTH AMERICA GREAT! That's much better than building a jail cell with only one wall. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/29/18 at 14:07:41 There is no evidence to support the longevity of any fixed instillation. They can all be circumvented. According to people with zero experience in border control, or law enforcement of any kind this is false. We can build a wall, not staff anyone to watch it and people won't come in. Or at least it will delay them by the time it takes to climb a ladder, or for a cartel to build a tunnel, and cost is no issue because 5 billion on a wall is better than 5 billion in proven methods. I mean really get with the times man, there's no need to use the information from people who do the job. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/29/18 at 15:54:54 mean really get with the times man, there's no need to use the information from people who do the job. And what a FUKKING GOOD JOB THEY HAVE DONE. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/29/18 at 16:17:02 "And what a FUKKING GOOD JOB THEY HAVE DONE. " Again, you linked the articles outlining a lot of the problems with resource allocation in the CBP. You linked the information of staff complaining about their lack of proper equipment and policy revision needs. One of the larger problems being inappropriate funding allocation. And now we say its the staff that is the problem, not the resources or policy? Now those articles aren't credible, the staff aren't knowledgeable enough about their own job and people with zero experience should now decide. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/29/18 at 17:52:37 Go to Bing homepage Go to Bing homepage border patrol stand down ALLIMAGESVIDEOSMAPSNEWS Trending 2,760,000 ResultsAny time Border Patrol Ordered to Stand Down | NumbersUSA https://www.numbersusa.com/.../border-patrol-ordered-stand-down.html The Vice President of the National Border Patrol Council, the union that represents the nation's Border Patrol agents, Shawn Moran, has told Breitbart News that agents are being ordered to stand down and end any pursuit of drug smugglers, human smugglers, and illegal aliens. Obama Tells Border Agents To Stand Down | Daily Wire https://www.dailywire.com/news/3186/obama-tells-border-agents... Border Patrol agents are issuing Notices to Appear, consistent with law, regulation, and the department's enforcement priorities. Judd said there was an insidious plot laid by drug cartels as they helped children cross the border, asserting , "The unaccompanied minors could have walked right up to the Port of Entry and asked for asylum. Videos of border patrol stand down bing.com/videos Border Patrol Agents Are Being Ordered To Stand Down By Obama Administration 2:24 Border Patrol Agents Are Being Ordered To Stand Down By Obama Administration YouTube · 2/4/2016 · 9.1K views Border Patrol Agents Are Being Ordered To Stand Down By Obama Administration 3:40 Border Patrol Agents Are Being Ordered To Stand Down By Obama Administration liveleak.com · 2/5/2016 · 2.8K views US BORDER PATROL ORDERED TO STAND DOWN- Borders are Fair Game During Shutdown 0:36 US BORDER PATROL ORDERED TO STAND DOWN- Borders are Fair Game During Shutdown YouTube · 10/7/2013 · 912 views See more videos of border patrol stand down Border Patrol Agents Ordered to Stand Down in Enforcing ... https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/immigration/item/22478... The president of the National Border Patrol Council (NBPC), testifying before the House Judiciary Committee’s Subcommittee on Immigration and Border … Obama Admin. Orders Border Patrol to Stand Down ... https://conservative-daily.com/2014/03/12/4370 Stop the Obama administration from ordering our Border Patrol agents to stand-down! Since 2007, there have been 6,000 assaults on Federal Border Patrol agents, resulting in numerous injuries and the deaths of three agents. Feds Stand Down As U.S. Border Collapses - Infowars https://www.infowars.com/feds-stand-down-as-u-s-border-collapses The decrease of Border Patrol activity in the border city of Brownsville, Texas, highlights how not only is the Border Patrol stretched too thin, but its agents are also being pressured to stand down from enforcing immigration laws. Breaking Obama Orders Border Patrol to Stand Down ... https://conservative-daily.com/2016/02/05/breaking%e2%9d%97-obama... Breaking Obama Orders Border Patrol to Stand Down. By Joe Otto / 02/05/2016 / Conservative Issues, Government Overreach, Immigration, The Constitution, Today's Action Alerts. Fellow Conservative, It always surprises me to learn just how far the Obama administration will go to damage the country. ACLU Wants Border Patrol to Stand-Down During … https://www.breitbart.com/border/2017/08/25/aclu-wants-border... The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) asked the U.S. Border Patrol to stand-down during Hurricane Harvey. They say the agency’s refusal to close checkpoints during the storm puts illegal aliens in grave danger. Border Patrol ordered to release illegals 'still soaking ... https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/10/border-patrol... Apr 10, 2016 · “The U.S. Border Patrol has not issued any stand-down order to agents,” the agency said in a statement to The Washington Times. GOP Convention Opens in Cleveland - FactCheck.org https://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/gop-convention-opens-in-cleveland Two security contractors at the CIA annex in Benghazi on Sept. 11, 2012, repeated their claim that they were told to “stand down” and not help Americans under attack ADDRESS THE POINT |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/29/18 at 21:58:20 "ADDRESS THE POINT " How many of those situations are staff being ordered to do their job and the staff refusing? None. Yet you point out that CBP is incapable of doing their job. So which is it, are they ordered to not do it, or are they ordered to work and are incapable? Why is it that CBP is unique in the fact that the people doing the job can not assess their needs better than the people who have never done the job, or even been to the border? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/29/18 at 22:43:54 Wanna dance with the words again? You want to pretend the answer to Well, which is it? Changes the fact that they are not effective in protecting America? I SAID it was Politicized. A wall doesn't Change POLICY. It's a wall, every day, regardless of the people in office. We need a wall. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/30/18 at 05:47:23 5556435A5659030F370 wrote:
Did the Berlin Wall stop people from escaping? Does a bear $hit in the woods? Yes to both! If the Berlin Wall didn't work, you wouldn't even know the phrase Berlin Wall. (What's the phrase for obtuse squared?) And the whole "give us your poor"...blah, blah, blah.... You know immigrants who came over were screened before they got on the departing ships, screen again when they got here and sent back if they didn't meet a predefined criteria. But you'll ignore those inconvenient facts and stay secure in your house. You know, the property you keep secure and give permission before anyone can enter or live there. Bat, you lock your house doors, you lock your car doors and maybe even have a fence around your yard knowing full well a determined thief could gain entry given the time and without being spotted. A wall across the Southern border accomplishes the same thing. It prevents widespread, uncontested crossings like we are seeing now. And by the way, someone explain how an illegal alien can get arrested on DUI twice, have gang sign tattoos and not be deported? He stuck around long enough to kill a cop. WTF?.... |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by thumperclone on 12/30/18 at 08:19:22 fact: the berlin wall didn't stop escapes some 5,000 were successful it did stop a mass exodus |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/30/18 at 08:49:13 A poem, attached to a statue, is a contract to flood our country with people who are not vetted, demonstrated as necessary and beneficial TO our society? A POEM is our immigration policy? You wanna talk about SILLY? Ohhh, golly, it's a shame we are unable to MONITOR the wall with technology and stop tunnels. Of course just a tunnel, in the middle of nowhere, would be obvious. I wonder if that's why the tunnels that have been found start INSIDE of a building and go To ANOTHER BUILDING? You don't expect 100% out of anything. Pretending that since it's unreasonable to expect perfect performance, it's not worth doing. Seatbelts save lives. People get killed wearing them,too. We NEED a wall. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/30/18 at 08:50:32 706F696E73744575457D6F63281A0 wrote:
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/30/18 at 09:04:43 586A6D7C7B6A7D426E7D640F0 wrote:
Simple, It’s Calf. Where a SNEEK in Illegal, is protected. Where a SNEEK in Illegal, is given help. Where a SNEEK in Illegal, is taken better care of than, victims of a fire, who have paid Taxes all their life, who now have absolutely NOTHING. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by thumperclone on 12/30/18 at 09:09:24 we don't NEED a wall we need to stop the market for the drug runners create economic opportunities in 3rd word latin America track and expel visa overstays, over 700k in 2017 use cheaper barriers 5b is less than 25% of the cost for a complete wall |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/30/18 at 09:21:19 2438253D203522333C3F3E35500 wrote:
Just a couple of things to chew on: About 11 MILLION illegal immigrant population in the United States. (PEW) About 85,000 per year, of ‘refugees’ are brought in. The Berlin Wall was up for 28 years. and the 5,000 (+/-) crossings were mostly in the first couple of years. Still that only equates to about 180 a YEAR. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by T And T Garage on 12/30/18 at 09:29:37 0C2F123133282F26410 wrote:
Just a couple of things to chew on: About 11 MILLION illegal immigrant population in the United States. (PEW) About 85,000 per year, of ‘refugees’ are brought in. This is wrong. There are - on average - about 40,000 per year. Stop lying. The Berlin Wall was up for 28 years. and the 5,000 (+/-) crossings were mostly in the first couple of years. Still that only equates to about 180 a YEAR. [/quote] |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Serowbot on 12/30/18 at 10:15:38 The Berlin wall was about 60 miles long,... Hadrian's wall was about 70 miles... ...both were heavily guarded...(it was the guarding that prevented most crossings not the physical barrier). Guards on Hadrian's wall were there for so long they no longer considered themselves Roman,... they were English... many English alive today have some Roman blood. They assimilated into the culture. 3,000 miles... whole different can o' worms... |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by batman on 12/30/18 at 13:38:56 JOG , I don't support the building of the wall no matter who proposes it, There is no evidence to support the longevity of any fixed instillation. They can all be circumvented. Locks only keep the good people out. Why not use our money to boost the economy of Mexico, do we have an open border with Canada because their rich and go home after sending their money , why can't we have the same with our southern neighbors .The only difference between a man and a thief is a job. If the Mexican people had decent paying jobs and a more promising future they wouldn't be trying to sneak into the country. Maybe it's time our leaders in D.C. showed a little bit more vision, and made NORTH AMERICA GREAT! That's much better than building a jail cell with only one wall. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/30/18 at 13:46:18 3127302D35202D36420 wrote:
What is 3,000 long ? If you are implying it is the South Boarder between the USA/Mexico. That boarder is 1,954 long. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/30/18 at 15:03:48 "It's a wall, every day, regardless of the people in office. We need a wall." Again: CBP staff, US ARMY Corp of Engineers, many many third party studies, ICE, US Navy, AZ National Guard, USMC, DHS, DE all indicate that a large full-length physical wall is not cost-effective compared to modern means. Even if nobody is there to maintain it. The ability to circumvent stone and concrete is so rudimentary humans have been doing it successfully for centuries, but this wall will be different. Why are they all wrong, and why do people who have never been to the border get to decide? You state its because they aren't doing a good enough job due to policy and that a physical full length wall is a resolution to the political budget and order allocation for the CBP, even though the people doing the job indicate that a physical wall won't be a resolution. At least Webstermark is smart enough to say cost is no issue so that mitigates the efficiency of cost to return by simply saying cost means nothing. Why do people who are doing the job now wrong and the people who have never done it right? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Serowbot on 12/30/18 at 15:16:41 092A1734362D2A23440 wrote:
What is 3,000 long ? If you are implying it is the South Boarder between the USA/Mexico. That boarder is 1,954 long. [/quote] Oh?,.. well that's different then... ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/30/18 at 15:25:06 2A3C2B362E3B362D590 wrote:
I would definitely consider 1/3, of a distance, relative. Especially when that one third, is over, 1,000 miles. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Serowbot on 12/30/18 at 15:26:14 684B7655574C4B42250 wrote:
I would definitely consider 1/3, of a distance, relative. Especially when that one third, is over, 1,000 miles. [/quote] Yeah,.. it so much more relates to a 70 mile wall... ::) Hadrian guarded his 70 mile wall with about 10,000 men... Counting for shifts and time off,... I guess we could do a 2,000 mile wall with about 500,000 men... Heck,.. with modern technology maybe 100,000 men. ...but that's using the technology that says we don't need a wall anyway. ... or, maybe we just need better immigration policies, and sensible borders. We could pretend we're not in the dark ages... |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/30/18 at 16:12:28 Talking to lefties IS Talking to a wall. Policies? Really? POLICIES? You don't read, do you? Pay attention. The border patrol agents were told to FAIL. We NEED a wall. And SCREW YOU CLOWNS who talk about No WALL But TECHNOLOGY. FFS, the wall doesn't HAVE to be end to end. I've BEEN on the border. I've entered Mexico in four places. Waded in once. But there are MILES of border that is rugged terrain once in America. No place to get food. A wall where they are crossing will force them elsewhere. And you people who insist TECHNOLOGY and manpower CAN control the border, I Fully AGREE, But it will not be done For political reasons. So Use technology to protect the wall. It's worth building. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by thumperclone on 12/30/18 at 16:51:02 policies change some more barriers, more manpower, and technology the wall isn't going to happen |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/30/18 at 17:47:20 If someone says: ‘We don’t need a wall’ “A wall can be just electronics’ “A wall won’t stop anyone’ Is that just like: “You can keep your Doctor’ ? “Insurance Premiums will go down’. ? Or could it be like: "Look how caring we are, we help the poor Illegal's that sneak in' While. Not caring that a, Illegal KILLED a Police officer. Or, 'Fast-Tracked', a Police officer, who KILLED in cold blood. Not caring that several hundred Citizens, have lost everything, that is EVERYTHING, and have to fight tooth and nail to get a glass of water. I guess people that come from another place, and shoot/kill/sell drugs/rape/steel/etc/etc/etc. Have the, PRIORITY !!!!!! Where the Citizens, who have PAID, all their life, are to be shunned. People like Vets, Unemployed, homeless, (especially recent fires), etc.etc,etc, etc. Guess have to look to Jerry Brown, how to be a good person ? NAAAAAA. The J.B.'s, B.O.'s, B.S.'s, and like. Are NOT good role models. (Well unless all you want to do, is STUFF your pockets, and to HELL with everyone else) |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/30/18 at 18:04:47 These geniuses know what won't work. Continue to pretend what has never worked suddenly will. When POLICIES are to choose to not enforce the law, gee, what do you call that if Trump did it? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/30/18 at 18:20:45 "You don't read, do you? Pay attention. The border patrol agents were told to FAIL." Not only did I read, I also looked through the event records for some of them. Also one article is completely opinion and had several discrepancies, but that's not the issue. Border Agents being told to FAIL were not told "go fail" by just random people, they were instructed by associates who by policy... again: by policy, have authority to present those orders to the appropriate staff. "We NEED a wall. And SCREW YOU CLOWNS who talk about No WALL But TECHNOLOGY" I never said NO WALL. Zero part of my discussion with you has presented in a way that has suggested that there should be NO WALL. I have not said NO WALL, or recommended it, or have I indicated that anyone in CBP thinks NO WALL is a workable solution. "FFS, the wall doesn't HAVE to be end to end." Why didn't you state this the first seven times that the subject of "Complete" wall, "entire border" etc. were brought up? The very article you referenced in the original post is about an end to end physical wall. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/30/18 at 19:31:44 Which is apparently something you people oppose. So,in an effort to offer an idea, which, BTW, none of you did, I offered a Thought. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/30/18 at 19:33:29 So, considering walls and fences don't work, lefties can start removing theirs. Fighting with people over what is obvious, it's not worth it. I'm done with this one. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 12/30/18 at 19:51:42 "So,in an effort to offer an idea, which, BTW, none of you did, I offered a Thought." My idea is to let CBP, AZ National Guard, US Navy and Marines, DHS, ICE have input on the budget they are forced to use. I have stated that repeatedly. I am not presenting ideas on what tech needs to be used where, or where physical walls belong - because I don't do their job, and I don't have the audacity to think I can provide an educated opinion on how somebody else should do their job. "So, considering walls and fences don't work, lefties can start removing theirs." One long concrete wall along the entire border is not cost-effective. Cost-effective doesn't mean "doesn't work" it means not as efficient as an alternative, or complementary system for the cost. Many people choose monitored home-alarm systems, video doorbells connected to their phones, and surveillance cameras instead of paying for additional fencing around their yards. Cattle ranches where I live use drones to move cattle and AI agriculture modeling to accurately predict where the cattle go to graze instead of fencing them into zones. I wonder why that is. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by batman on 12/30/18 at 22:30:25 I'm still waiting for Frump to get Mexico to pay for the wall! |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by thumperclone on 12/31/18 at 06:33:23 a wall will not stop those who over stay their visa's |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/31/18 at 06:59:25 A lock on your door will not stop someone you invite inside from stealing from your house when you're not looking so take the lock off your door?!..... You guys are working so hard finding excuse after excuse why not to build a wall when the obvious answer is staring you in the face. Build a Wall. Implement additional electronic surveillance at the same time. Enforce (strongly!) violations of illegal hiring practices. Withhold federal funds from Sanctuary Cities. Assist Mexico in gaining controof their crime problem. That's a good start. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 12/31/18 at 08:12:50 677B667E637661707F7C7D76130 wrote:
Totally agree. What is your solution to do that ? I clearly remember when I went to free Europe in the early 70’s and late 80’s. Their were many times I was asked for my passport. The length of the, automatic Visa was well known, and when I did not have it upon me, (several times), I was asked, ‘When did you get here’, ‘how long are you staying’, ‘where are you staying’, ‘where are you going from here’. (Perhaps you remember at that time, their was this little thing going on with the IRA) Yet, YET, Here in the USA, one can NOT, ask those questions of someone. So, someone has a Visa, Procured in Country before travel, or procured at the boarder. When they come accost, does not that Visa contain a Number, can it not be scanned, can it not be entered into a data base? Thinking it is. Here is the problem, if their is no corresponding scan, showing that person leaving, and it is past the, ‘due’ date. How do you find them? (JUST last Year, 600,000 (+/-) of them, JUST LAST YEAR !!!) Again, it is forbidden to ask someone. (Because of course, that is Racist) So what to do? Plant a removable GPS chip ? Have scanners to pick up a Passport, and compare that number with a list. Or, be able to ask people? Or be able to coordinate/communicate with agencies, oh like, local police and ICE. What would be your Idea? Or would that, be like the response you have to: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1546040686 #3 |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by batman on 01/01/19 at 17:40:58 Well maybe it's time to quit crying in our beer,the wall is not going to get built. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/01/19 at 20:18:15 You might be right, but I remember when a certain bipedal Pustule was gonna defeated Trump in an embarrassing fashion. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by batman on 01/01/19 at 22:30:01 Instead we got a potus that trumps embarrassing fashion. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/01/19 at 22:41:21 You're focused on form over function. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by eau de sauvage on 01/01/19 at 22:45:52 More Americans are not idiots than are idiots. Sure it's prolly not a large margin but large enough to ensure that the comically buffoonish Trump's monument to his grotesque ego and immorality in general, will not happen. Sh!t is about to get real for Don. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by WebsterMark on 01/02/19 at 04:52:41 Shut up. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by T And T Garage on 01/02/19 at 10:11:08 5C4E5A594E484A2F0 wrote:
Agreed. But I have one question Eau - How can you possibly debate the ripping retorts that web's been putting on you? I mean - he's so clever in how he types "Shut Up"..... Gee, there's just no coming back from that!! :D |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 01/02/19 at 10:21:59 405E51505D405B46340 wrote:
That must be the same as you, saying: Bat $hit Crazy, Moronic, misguided fool, and on, and on, and on, and on !!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by eau de sauvage on 01/02/19 at 10:25:43 Oh noes, MnSpringchickenshit, just dropped the smily face bomb, we're all doomed. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 01/02/19 at 10:32:10 65776360777173160 wrote:
WOW, your up early. Isn't it like 5 AM where you are now ? (Is it live, or Memorex) |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by T And T Garage on 01/02/19 at 11:02:31 5675486B6972757C1B0 wrote:
That must be the same as you, saying: Bat $hit Crazy, Moronic, misguided fool, and on, and on, and on, and on !!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D [/quote] Yeah mn - but mine is the truth. You're an idiot. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by T And T Garage on 01/02/19 at 11:02:52 4F5D494A5D5B593C0 wrote:
I'm so scared... LOL |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by eau de sauvage on 01/02/19 at 12:24:20 1D3E032022393E37500 wrote:
Yep, early is the time to be up around these parts, hide away during the hottest part of the day in some air con then back out again for the evening. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/02/19 at 13:00:03 0A151314090E3F0F3F07151952600 wrote:
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 01/02/19 at 13:26:58 "To force people to utilize our immigration system in order to get in, isn't it just as immoral to utilize men and technology to achieve the same thing? Looks like a demand for open borders to me. " Only if you consider all forms of Border Control to have the exact same level of morality. As in shoot on sight is equally moral as arresting and relocating without trial, or sending economic aid to the source communities. If they are all equally moral then yes. Similar to saying misdemeanor citation, term incarceration and capital punishment are equal in moral assessment and as such are all moral or immoral depending on your point of view on Capital Punishment. If Capitol Punishment is immoral isn't any form of law enforcement immoral? If they are not equal, then no, not all forms of Border Control are immoral. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/02/19 at 13:46:46 Only if you consider all forms of Border Control to have the exact same level of morality. As in shoot on sight is equally moral as arresting and relocating without tria That's the biggest load of ignorant SCHITT on the planet. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by T And T Garage on 01/02/19 at 14:00:26 2D3234332E2918281820323E75470 wrote:
No jog - that's called "getting owned" by Eegore. You should be used to it by now. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by batman on 01/02/19 at 15:43:18 WELL IF YOU CARE TO READ A BIT YOU'LL FIND THAT ALL THE IMMIGRATION TREATIES SIGNED BY THE USA AND OTHER COUNTRIES STATE THAT ONCE AN ILLEGAL STEPS ON OUR SOIL THEY DO HAVE THE SAME LEGAL RIGHTS AS YOU AND I. (Which makes me wonder who is representing the 0ver 3,000 children we've kidnapped,now that is immoral !) |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by MnSpring on 01/02/19 at 16:03:45 5053465F535C060A320 wrote:
WOW, if that is the case. That is a GREAT reason to STEEL/SNEAK/LIE one's azz across the boarder. All ALL the MORE Reason so build a wall, (electronic or physical). Because the 'Rights' of the, 'Citizens' of the USA, TRUMP, all the other Nations. (Well except Switzerland) |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by T And T Garage on 01/02/19 at 16:06:21 7C5F624143585F56310 wrote:
WOW, if that is the case. That is a GREAT reason to STEEL/SNEAK/LIE one's azz across the boarder. All ALL the MORE Reason so build a wall, (electronic or physical). Because the 'Rights' of the, 'Citizens' of the USA, TRUMP, all the other Nations. (Well except Switzerland) [/quote] Hey, like web says - shut up mn. :D |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 01/02/19 at 16:12:15 "That's the biggest load of ignorant SCHITT on the planet." That's the reply of someone unable, or unwilling to have an adult conversation about a political topic. Instead of continuing to insult peoples opinions on here why don't you try having a conversation? For instance what part of my assessment that there are varying degrees of morality in Border Enforcement do you disagree with and why? My stance is that I believe that a wall, a drone, a gun and a courtroom have different degrees of moral application based off of their use. They can all be misused, thus creating a moral paradox of evaluating the usage of the tool instead of evaluating the morality of the tool itself. A concept I think gun owners might be familiar with for instance. Why is that incorrect from your perspective? Or are you stating that all forms of Border Enforcement are equally moral thus answering the question for us? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/02/19 at 18:03:25 I'm sick of it. It's been addressed. Nobody. MUTHERFUKKIN NOBODY HAS SUGGESTED ANYTHING LESS THAN DECENT ACTIONS. No poison, no killing grow up I'm not typing this again |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by thumperclone on 01/02/19 at 18:36:15 56494F4855526353635B49450E3C0 wrote:
fake news again |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/02/19 at 18:54:47 How is it fake? |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by Eegore on 01/02/19 at 21:15:10 "Nobody. MUTHERFUKKIN NOBODY HAS SUGGESTED ANYTHING LESS THAN DECENT ACTIONS." I have. I am providing examples of varying degrees of morality from my perspective. This angers you, you have made that clear but that does not change my assessment. If you are stating that all forms of Border Control are to be assessed equally in terms of morality then yes it is equally immoral to use modern technology as a wall. But only if you are removing our ability to assess morality in this discussion, thus negating it as a question and making this thread a statement. If you are asking... again: asking if all forms of border Control should be considered equal in morality then that is a question, and if you ask a question sometimes you will get an answer you don't want to hear. For instance examples of a varying spectrum of ideas beyond what you have described might be introduced as... well... examples. My answer if you are asking a question is maybe, but more likely no. If you really want to get into a real adult conversation we would discuss if usage of technology vs a wall is equal to implementation. I mention this because I believe your question has more to do with abuse of Border Control than the control feature itself, again just like firearms. |
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Title: Re: If it's immoral to use a wall Post by WebsterMark on 01/03/19 at 05:05:56 7 people arrested for assisting the illegal cop killer while on the run. At this point, all reported to be illegals. This story had disappeared from the news. No cries about how he got the gun. No word from either California Senator about a cop killed in their state. Anyone proposing electronic measures on the border is a fool. A President Warren, Harris or Booker would shut that $hit down on day 1. We had a new prosecutor elected in St Louis who defeated Robert McCullah. You may remember that name, he's the prosecutor who announced the grand jury would not indict Darren Wilson for shooting the gentle giant Michael Brown. First day on the job, the new prosecutor fired the investigator who presented evidence to that grand jury, announced the city would no longer pursue weed cases for less than 100 grams effectively legalizing weed in St Louis metro and then announced they would not pursue cases of failure to pay child support. Imagine a campaign season where Warren or Harris are forced to the opposite side of Trump on border security. Imagine they won. Imagine the caravans heading this way the next day. We're f'd. I told Sew a long time ago he would win this war. The leftist will take control. Unless Trump can pull off a miracle, he'll only be a four year, hell, two year, detour. If the media and their political party can effectively bury the story about a cop killed by an illegal and assisted by 7 other illegals in a state with two Democratic Senators, what can't they control? |
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