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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> The Wall /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1545491253 Message started by WebsterMark on 12/22/18 at 07:07:33 |
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Title: The Wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/22/18 at 07:07:33 Question for those who are vehemently against a wall / fence / barrier (whatever word you want to use for a physical impediment to crossing the border) if the idea of a wall is so unAmerican, morality reprehensible etc, is it accurate to say you would be in favor of tearing down whatever structures are in place now and whatever length they are across the border? |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by Serowbot on 12/22/18 at 07:31:22 What's there now, was deemed useful by experts in the field. Not the fantasy of a golf course developer. Experts say the money would be better spent on other things. I'll take expert advice over a clown. Trump can hold his breathe 'till he's blue in the face. |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/22/18 at 08:15:02 Does that seem logical to you? Part of a wall is successful because it prevents or at the very least lessens the numbers who can cross but extending that wall in areas where there is none would not have the same effect? |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by Eegore on 12/22/18 at 08:31:36 " unAmerican, morality reprehensible " I don't think its a moral issue. I think that if the people responsible for securing the border, which includes state National Guards and the Army Corp of Engineers says there are more cost-effective and efficient methods than a physical full-length wall that maybe, just maybe they know more about it than people who have never been there, done the job, or have anything at all to do with it. Its not a moral issue to me, its an issue of why CBP, ICE, ACOE, etc. etc. are wrong and the people who have never set foot near the border are right. If the Marines were down there full-time making recommendations people wouldn't be saying they are wrong because Marines don't know anything about securing land. |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by Serowbot on 12/22/18 at 08:35:56 If you know the terrain, not to mention property rights along the border,... you'd see that a wall is logistically near impossible. What is there, is there for a reason. What isn't there, isn't there for a reason too. Trump said going in, that he would rely on the very best experts for advice. Where is he doing that? He knows way less about the border than I do,... and I wouldn't say I know more than border patrol,... or land management.. Who is he listening to?... Hannity, O’Reilly, Coulter People that vaguely know the border between Jersey and New York... Gimme' a break... You want a wall. because Trump wants a wall. Read up on Hadrian's wall... Only 80 miles, and took huge manpower to build and defend. We have electronic surveillance now, and satellites... we aren't in the dark ages. Why not put money where it does the most good? The wall is pabulum the MAGA hats... Take that stupid hat OFF!... |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by Eegore on 12/22/18 at 08:42:05 "Does that seem logical to you? Part of a wall is successful because it prevents or at the very least lessens the numbers who can cross but extending that wall in areas where there is none would not have the same effect? " What you are saying is exactly what experts, you know people there right now, are saying but their analysis is different than yours, you know, they guy not there right now doing the job. Fencing/walls are appropriate but not along the entirety of the border. There's geographical and resource based analysis, there's data collection of human traffic flow, drug traffic flow and mechanism of entry, predictive modeling that has had over 95% accuracy, undercover agents travelling with migrants, colleges, national and state evaluation groups, but they are probably wrong because a wall works in one place, it must work in all. Its an issue of where there should be a physical barrier, and where there should be other methods, of many available. The idea that CBP employees are worried a wall will make their jobs obsolete is an example of how disconnected people are from the actual environment. There is no reason to believe that humans capable of grappling, tunneling, using ladders etc. will be deterred by a wall with no staff to enforce it's use. CBP wants walls to funnel people to easier to monitor locations, why is this so hard to understand? Why are people who have never done the job correct while CBP, and many many others doing this work are wrong? |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by Eegore on 12/22/18 at 08:47:26 "You want a wall. because Trump wants a wall." I think that's the reason too. As you said Trump said he would refer to experts, and given his record of negotiation method he might, but all these people who have no interaction with anyone doing the job want walls. Other than conspiracy answers nobody states a clear reason why their internet study is to be taken as resource over the thousands and thousands of people doing the job today. |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/22/18 at 10:09:49 Give me a break, you're only against it because Trump's for it. And by the way, I was against it in the beginning when Trump first started pushing for it. I changed when the sanctuary cities became a thing and realized elected (as well as unelected) officials can simply change policies with a pen. A wall is there until you physically take it down. Without a wall, the next administration simply changes policy and your drones and electronic wall get turned off. Regarding experts, I can find just as many who say a wall is very effective. And Eegore, "the expert who is there now" has more than a little incentive to expand the status quo. We have anywhere between 15 and 40 million illegals today, no one really knows the real number. Whatever we've done before is not working. Build a wall. Make it harder. Adjust strategies when illegals adjust their strategies to get arond the wall. Back to my question, what you're both saying is the wall in place now is perfect, but what's missing is a little more electronic surveillance etc... which in the grand scheme of things, cost a pittance. A rounding error in the federal budget. Why haven't these simple strategies been employed anytime over the past 25 years? |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by Serowbot on 12/22/18 at 10:50:25 Nothing is ever perfect,... but electronic surveillance and and other measures are deemed to be more effective use of funds... I remember when you used to say,.. Republicans were the grown-ups, using logic and intellect.... as opposed to Liberals that were emotional. A wall, is just a feel good measure. It sounds good. There are more cost effective measures that will do a better job. ... but,... let's just feel good. Let's feed that hate. Trump doesn't even read,... he doesn't listen to experts, and he's not very bright. He's strictly emotionally based. MAGA |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by MnSpring on 12/22/18 at 11:18:41 The Wall, to build or not. (On money via a ‘go-fund-me’ page) For the Wall: 14 MILLION raised, so far. and a Guarantee that all your donations will go to the wall, or be returned. Against the Wall: 65,000.00 raised, for Ladders, Which was rapidly changed to: “… to donate the money raised to legal services to undeserved immigrant children, families and refugees…” Which could mean, a lot of that money could be paid for someone to push a piece of paper back and forth on their desk. So Just a 13 MILLION + Difference. Between the Public who, want, and don’t want, a wall. Wonder, could 80% (+/-) of the Media, be Lying ? |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by WebsterMark on 12/22/18 at 12:13:08 A wall, is just a feel good measure. It sounds good. There are more cost effective measures that will do a better job. ... but,... let's just feel good. Let's feed that hate. Trump doesn't even read,... he doesn't listen to experts, and he's not very bright. That’s ridiculous. Doesn’t read, stupid, dumb, unimaginative etc....who’s talking with nothing but emotion now. A wall works. Period. Do we need more than a wall? Sure. But a wall is the first line of defense. |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/22/18 at 12:23:29 I don't remember the opposition when either of the Clinton s suggested it. Not even from me. I support it because I'm a trained monkey following Trump. But you don't oppose it because you're trained monkeys opposing Trump. I get it. |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by MnSpring on 12/22/18 at 12:25:34 350700111607102F031009620 wrote:
I would say that is EXACTLY it ! “Obama administration is planning for the remaining 1,300 miles of border, at an estimated cost of nearly $7 billion" Senator Obama, Sen. Schumer, Sen. Clinton ALL voted for (a wall), in 2006. Also, could it be, that the Contractors, are not, ’their’, Contractors, so they can give a, ‘Kick Back’ ! The TDS, is preventing the talking and working through his problem. Oh yea, their are places a physical wall simply would not work. So electronics type observance probably called for. Many places where their is NOT a wall, their could be one. The Tohono O'odham Nation as one comes to mind. (Ask those people. Ask if they are happy with the Drug/People Smugglers. Ask them if they are happy when the illegals come into their houses, and do whatever they want Ask them !) BUT, it can't be talked about, a solution cannot be found, a agreement or compromise can not happen. ALL because many have TDS. |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/22/18 at 12:39:59 ALL because many have TDS. Registered and elected republicans are apparently not immune. |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by Serowbot on 12/22/18 at 15:00:41 645651404756417E524158330 wrote:
I got that info from Trump's staff... the very best guys...Trump only hires the best. Mn?... only nineteen billion nine hundred eighty-six million to go... ...did you donate yet?... ;D |
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Title: Re: The Wall Post by MnSpring on 12/22/18 at 16:10:52 6D7B6C71697C716A1E0 wrote:
You want to explain, what you are referring to ??? Donate to something that costs 19 BILLION + ? |
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