|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1545173460 Message started by Dave on 12/18/18 at 14:51:00 |
|
Title: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by Dave on 12/18/18 at 14:51:00 Winter is here, and the mind can wander a bit.......and I got to pondering if the manufacture and sales of sport bikes can continue? The young riders are crashing and being injured or killed on a regular basis, and there may not be an endless supply of Hooligans and/or stunters. Will the riders stop buying them - will the insurance become too expensive for your riders to own motorcycles (for those who actually buy the motorcycle and actually insure it) - with the government allow 16 year old males to purchase a 150HP sport bike? :-? |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by MMRanch on 12/18/18 at 21:42:06 According to my Loonie Nephew , I was trying to tell him that its more fun to ride a slow bike fast than it is to ride a fast bike slow . When he explained to me that its more Fun to ride a fast bike fast ! So , I explained to him : No , its more fun to keep your driving license so you can ride. Then next suggested he get a fast dual-sport and keep the "Fast" part off the street. He is Bike-less at the moment and the world may be a Safer place because of it ! ;D I guess you might call him a : GSX-R 750 survivor . ??? ::) |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by jcstokes on 12/19/18 at 01:46:14 Those bikes will always be wanted/needed. Even if the USA were to ban them, or restrict them to certain riders, there are plenty of emergent economies who will take them up. Young people will want to push limits, sadly for motorcycling some will die, but that goes with the territory. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/19/18 at 07:42:53 So what do we have a problem with, a bike that looks like a race replica or a bike with a stupid amount of horsepower? For example: The Ninja 400 is a "sport bike". It has clip-on bars, rear sets, a full fairing, even a racing series/class. At 43 hp it's a great performance value too. The Harley FXDR 114 119 ft-lbs of torque, yet can't make a 30 degree bank angle without dragging parts on the ground. Clearly not a sport bike, but also not a great handling bike - so it really can't safely handle its power. Are we more concerned about how a bike looks, or what it can or can not do? |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by Dave on 12/19/18 at 09:25:45 I guess maybe the bike is not the problem, as much as what riders are doing with them. Most buyers don't go to the "track" events where the bikes are in the element they are built for - and they don't live in an area with mountains and curves - the public roads become the playground for this kind of riding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI8L59brPQE [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI8L59brPQE[/media] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKydosJYnAs [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKydosJYnAs[/media] |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by MMRanch on 12/19/18 at 10:49:02 Wow . That makes OldFeller look perfectly Sane . Reminds me of my nephew Jed , and who can do the most Funny video , [color=#ff0000]but who would spend 20 years and a bunch of $$$ to raise an offspring to waste their live/body parts like that . [/color] |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by MMRanch on 12/19/18 at 10:57:29 I've read about life in the USA before Social Drugs were Outlawed. Apparently some Senators Child got caught up in a Drug habit that ended in our current Drug Laws . Some time , we are bound to have a power to weight restriction on bikes and sports cars . :-? So , did the two-cycle bikes get outlawed for the same reason under the disguise of air quality . I know the 50:1 mixed machine don't really smoke no more than rich-running 4 strokes. But they sure ran strong for their sizes ! |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by Fast 650 on 12/19/18 at 11:02:33 Those two videos are what the sportbike riders are like around here. No tracks other than dragstrips on this side of the state so they ride through downtown like that. Rev limiters are a badge of status apparently too. It is common for them to sit at a red light with the throttle open hitting the rev limiter. Especially for the smaller bikes. And they wonder why cops seem to focus on sportbikes in this area... |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by jcstokes on 12/19/18 at 19:47:51 Undoutably, these are all "cool" riders. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/20/18 at 08:12:56 I just watched the videos...the thought that came to my mind... Stupid Hurts. Regarding Dave's original post/question...people have the right to be stupid. Yeah, there are a lot of things in this world that I think could use regulation, but just because I think some things would be better regulated, that doesn't mean that they should be. There are thousands of things that small groups of people would like to restrict to a wide group of people - and it's just wrong. Let stupid be stupid, and we can enjoy the videos (please don't chime in with "but other people are being hurt...." because my statement was intentionally flippant). |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by IslandRoad on 12/20/18 at 15:06:11 That second video: Travels 3 times faster than any other vehicle on the road - uses turn signal for lane changes! |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by engineer on 12/20/18 at 18:51:32 I don't think sport bikes are headed for total extinction but the outlook doesn't seem bright for them. The insurance is getting expensive because the things are so easily totaled out with the high cost of parts and all the plastic fairings that shatter so easily. The number of younger riders is declining and most sport bike enthusiast are younger. Locally, I see very few sport bikes these days. In popularity the Harleys rule and then the metric cruisers. Most younger guys I know prefer the adventure touring bikes because they consider the whole adventure riding thing to be cool, trendy and sophisticated. Me, I just like to ride motorcycles, don't care what kind as long as I can get comfortable on it. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by oldNslow on 12/20/18 at 19:26:27 My observations mirror engineer's. Most of the bikes I encounter when out on the road in my locale are cruisers, mostly Harleys. Sportbikes are a (very) distant second, Third is a mix of other types. A lot of my local riding takes me in the vicinity of two very large university campuses and that's where I see most of the sport bikes, The riders are almost always wearing backpacks to carry their stuff. I've never witnessed any of the hooliganism like in the videos though. Two summers ago I rode down to Pittsburgh International raceway for the MotoAmerica road races. I expected the motorcycle parking area to be filled with sportbikes. Nope. There were quite a few, but of the many hundreds of bikes there, the majority were cruisers, big touring bikes and adventure bikes. I've never seen so many big ADV bikes in one place before. I'm pretty sure that my S40 was the only one in the lot. Possibly the smallest bike there too :) Another personal anecdote for what it's worth. When I bought my Sportster a few years ago from a local dealership's used inventory, the salesman told me that the young fellow that traded it in had traded it in on a brand new Kawasaki Ninja 300. Wanted a bike to commute back and forth to work, and wasn't happy with the Sportster in that role. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by WunGun on 12/21/18 at 02:50:30 They wont die the same way fast cars wont die but I do think they will lose their mass appeal (especially when young men finally realize that girls don't care about your bike). Pretty much all of these accidents involved someone showing off. Stupidly isn't the fault of the bike, young blood will always drip on the road. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by Dave on 12/21/18 at 04:02:36 One of the things that makes me question the "sustainability" of the sport bike - is if enough of them are being purchased to keep the manufacturer building them. They were a hot seller for the last 20 years - I just don't know if that will continue. As oldNslow stated, the ADV touring market seems to be strong, the "scrambler" models seem to be hot sellers for Ducati/Triumph/BMW....and BMW has about 5 models of their RNINET and Moto/Guzzi has a similar number of models of their V7 - they seem to think those affordable mid size bikes will be the hot sellers in the coming years. Currently it is nearly impossible to buy a mid sized sport touring bike in the US.....they all seem to be 1,000cc and up. Several companies have built and marketed smaller sport touring bikes - but after a few years they stop as their just isn't a market for them. Honda built the PC800 from 1988-1998 and it was a great bike - but sold in limited numbers. Honda built the NT650V since 1988 and NT700V came later and it sold well in the UK - the NT700V was only sold for 2 years in the US - it didn't sell well and US dealers had a hard time getting rid of them. BMW sold the F800GT from 2013 until 2018, and it has been discontinued for 2019. Mysmaller body size and advancing years make a mid size sport touring bike the perfect choice for a bike - and yet the manufacturers can't sell enough of them to justify building them (In the next year I am going to start looking for a nice used BMW F800GT to be my bike for single riding on long trips - 90HP and 470 pound is a good size for me). I wonder how long companies like Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki will be able to keep designing and building sport bikes in 300cc/400cc/500cc/650cc/750cc/1,000cc sizes (and also make the same bike in a naked version) - will there be a big enough market to sustain 30 different versions of sport/naked bikes? The US is a very small market compared to the sales worldwide, and we have a very small influence on what the big 4 manufacturers build and sell. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by Matchless G11 on 12/21/18 at 07:10:51 I agree that there is going to be a market for smaller bikes. I don't know if the Grom market has died off or it will come back. I myself welcome small bikes, many of my friends 30+ year riders have some displacement rides , they range from vtr250, Morni 3 1/2, Enfield Himalayan, and I ride a Puch 250 sgs. Big bikes to me only make sense for long distance riding. I have a 72 Guzzi Eldorado, for a long distance. Right now I await the new Enfield 650 Interceptor. Don't know if I will buy one but it seem to be a modern version of another bike I had the Benelli 650 Tornado. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by oldNslow on 12/21/18 at 07:51:04 Quote:
Small sport bikes are going to be part of that market IMO. Both the MotoAmerica, and the World Superbike, racing series have a class for small bikes/ young riders. Unlike MotoGP these are production bike based series. In MotoAmerica the riders are 14- early twenties. The bikes are predominantly Kawasaki Ninja 300 and 400s, Yamaha R3s and KTM RC 390s. The grids are always full and there are enough entries at every event that it's not easy to qualify for the main. The racing is always very close and very entertaining. The level of skill of some of these youngsters is pretty astonishing. Even though the bikes have been modified for racing, as much as the rules allow, and the teams budgets permit, they still look pretty much like the versions of these motorcycles that you can walk into a dealership, buy, and ride home on. That ought to sell a few. At least I hope so. I'd hate to see them disappear. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by Armen on 12/22/18 at 08:11:34 Random thoughts: Read recently that the big death group has changed from snot nosed kids on killer sport bikes to graybeards with money buying fast bikes after not riding in decades. It used to be if you stepped away form the industry for a bit, the bikes got a little faster. Now if you step away for decades, the bikes might have 4 times the HP of the ones you used to ride. And your reflexes are much worse. Keith Code said that when he switched to the BMW S1000RR with all the fancy electronics (race ABS, traction control, etc), crashed rates dropped. A bud bought an S1000RR and marveled at how controllable and safe it was. Ride it Balls Out into a turn, grab brakes with a death grip, lean over a bunch, and gas it. Said it was amazing and safe. Then he crashed while racing overcooking a turn, spent $50K on a Medevac helicopter ride, and spent a LONG time recovering. Can't imagine the bike companies make much money selling bikes that become obsolete in 3 years. And have insano development budgets. Gotta figure that Triumph has made WAY more money on the Bonneville family than the sport bikes. Heavy, overbuilt, understressed, very slow to change, charge a premium price. And a bunch are made in Thailand. Compare the price and specs of a Bonnie and a 675 Street triple a few years ago. The triple gives Way more stuff for the same price as the twin. But then again, there has always been the marketing theory that the race winners bring the customers into the showroom, even if all they do is buy the more pedestrian bike. Look at HD with flat track over the decades. Racing bikes with no connection to their street bikes, but instilling brand loyalty and giving them a 'winner' they can identify with. More crazy numbers? In 1976 Udo Geitl was given $150K to build three BMWs and win the inaugural Superbike championship. Which he did. Five years later he was crew chief for team Honda, with the same mission and result.. That year Honda spent $10.5 MILLION on the team. The amount to win a championship now is even more staggering. Of course, there is huge amount of sponsorship money now. Back then they got a free parts and a few bucks. But, still, racing is crazy money. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by jcstokes on 12/22/18 at 10:01:21 Death rates among middle aged men on motorcycles are rising in NZ too. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by LANCER on 12/22/18 at 10:56:09 3B3222253E3A3422510 wrote:
It’s a good thing I am well past middle age, gives me a much better chance of survival. Especially since I ride a simple and relatively slow bike solo and a Sporty when my sepweetheart rides with me. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by Ruttly on 12/22/18 at 12:29:25 Young , middle aged , snow topped peak or just OLD. None of us are protected by the odds or percentages or years on the seat. Odds maybe somewhat higher with some years under your belt before your senses begin to degrade , but death does not recognize any stat spread sheet or care if your married with children ! As precious as life is death is just as indiscriminate ! Grim, yes it's grim but it's also true. So ride smart ride safe and always stay focused when riding. Ride like the idiots in those videos and you better be prepared to pay your dues. |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by ohiomoto on 12/22/18 at 19:59:21 1A3D3C3C2431480 wrote:
So true and yes, they are idiots! |
|
Title: Re: Are Sport Bikes Sustainable? Post by MMRanch on 12/22/18 at 21:05:09 My Mom was so SMART ! So , when I was 15 going on 16 and dreaming of a Triumph 650 tiger . My mom won a Honda 50 in a raffle. She gave the dealer a few bucks extra and got the S-65cc model instead , she put it in the back seat of her Bonneville convertible and brought it to me for Christmas/Birthday that year. Thus SAVING MY LIFE IN THE PROCESS ! ;) I'll forever think "Smaller" Bikes are good , I could make that little Honda S-65 do stuff that my larger bike will never do . |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |