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Message started by Dave on 08/27/18 at 05:43:00

Title: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 08/27/18 at 05:43:00

I saw this on another forum:

Why Harley Davidson Sales Are Down
Harley Davidson is closing many of its plants due to declining sales. Apparently, the Baby-Boomers all have motorcycles and Generation X is only buying a very few. The next generation, the Millennials, aren’t buying any at all. A recent study was conducted to find out why. Here are a few reasons why Millennials don't ride motorcycles and why sales are probably down:

1. Pants won't pull up far enough for them to straddle the seat.

2. Can't get their phone to their ear with a helmet on.

3. Can't use two hands to eat while driving.

4. Don't get a trophy and a recognition plaque just for buying one.

5. Don't have enough muscle to hold the bike up when stopped.

6. Might have a bug hit them in the face and then they would need emergency care.

7. Motorcycles don't have air conditioning.

8. Can't afford one because they spent 12 years in college trying to get a degree in Humanities, Social Studies or Gender Studies, for which no jobs are available.

9. Allergic to fresh air.

10. Pajamas get caught on the exhaust pipes.

11. Might get their hands dirty checking the oil.

12. Handle bars have buttons and levers and cannot be controlled by touch-screen.

13. Have to shift manually and use something called a clutch.

14. Too hard to take selfies while riding.

15. They don't come with training wheels like their bicycles did.

16. Motorcycles don't have power steering or power brakes.

17. Nose ring interferes with the face shield.

18. Would have to use leg muscle to backup.

19. When they stop, a light breeze might blow exhaust in their face.

20. It could rain on them and expose them to non-soft water.

21. It might scare their therapy dog and then the dog would need therapy.

22. Parents won't allow them to keep motorcycle in their "space" in the basement.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by springman on 08/27/18 at 08:54:54

Please tell me we aren't really at that stage. But who am I kidding, we are! :o

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 08/27/18 at 09:27:44

I know the above comments were written for humor - but I have noticed the Millennials are wearing their "hoodies" all year long.

It has been really hot this summer and I am sweating in a T-shirt......and I see the local kids with their longs sleeve Hoodies....and they have the hoods up over their heads! :-?

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Eegore on 08/27/18 at 09:40:21

Skin cancer, the battle is real.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by verslagen1 on 08/27/18 at 10:44:14

They are waiting for the electric hardly ridensome.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by norm92de on 08/27/18 at 11:30:57

You guys are bad!

Sadly, probably not too far frm the truth. :'(

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by batman on 08/27/18 at 15:18:33

There waiting for an electric HD three wheeler, no balancing, no shifting, and a it will power there cell phone -GPS ,so they don't get lost.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by raydawg on 08/27/18 at 16:06:52

Haha....
And I thought it was because it didn’t have a solar collector ;D

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by raydawg on 08/27/18 at 16:32:07

Neighbors down the beach called up their Berkeley grad from their basement....
The mother asked him to go get some chicken stock, tossed him the car keys, she needed it for a recipe.
5 days later he called from Wall Street, asking which broker?

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Eegore on 08/28/18 at 05:40:58

A response from a 16 year old:

"Yeah there is a lot of weak idiots in my generation but I see a lot of weak idiot adults out there too. I can read a map, as part of a veteran program some Army Rangers and Marines taught us about cartography and how to find true North in geography class. How many of the people that thought that Harley sales list was accurate don't carry a cellphone do you think? How many pull their Harley off the side of the road and pull out paper maps instead of GPS?

Is my future learning how to print paper maps so I can someday take out a loan on an overpriced motorcycle?"

I thought it was pretty good.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by MMRanch on 08/28/18 at 10:57:55

Our local Harley StealerShip had a program in August :

Every Friday in August between 10:00 and 16:00 hrs. you get a FREE "T-Shirt" with every test ride .

So , me and my buddy Charles (looking for something to do)(retired folks) deside to go Check-out the new Harleys and enjoy a 120 mile round trip in the process. The Free "T-shirt" only sweetened the day.

So , we walk in and the receptionist ask how can I help ya ? Well , I'm right up front with her and tell her "I'm here to get a free "T-shirt" and get a Harley Experience to think back on ! " So she gets us a salesperson.

The salesman ask "You really want a test ride ?" or " Just the shirt" . Come to find out there's a bunch of paper work to taking a test ride , so he just gave us free shirt.

But while I was there I looked at all their bikes … :-/ … There wasn't a one of them I wanted to test-out anyway !

The 500 & 750 Street got my attention but they are built for Folks who have to get "tippy toed" to make 5 foot tall. They might make it big in the Asian market ?

:)

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by batman on 08/28/18 at 21:28:14

HD wants to make smaller cheaper bikes to appeal to younger buyers ,but they don't make "ninja's" , so there toast. "Real"Harley riders use to call Sportsters "girly bikes"what do you think they consider a 500/700 bike made in India ? That's why the sales of these bikes is so bad, no one wants to be caught dead on one.
But that's Harley, 100 years behind the times,making bikes nobody wants, and few can afford.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Matchless G11 on 08/29/18 at 02:49:26

Sadly but true they sold what they sold.
We have smaller families (or no families) so the traditions are not handed down.
Today fathers seem to treat their kids like dirt so why would the youth want to be like dad?

Also

Harley shot them self in the foot when they fired Erik Buell.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by LANCER on 08/29/18 at 02:59:04

3B222C2C7A7A392E3F2E2820787F7E4B0 wrote:

Yep, they sure did!

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by ohiomoto on 08/29/18 at 05:49:02

Motorcycle sales are down across the board. Partly because they have spent the last 30 years pushing technology forward which has resulted in an increase in prices. Entry level bikes are limited. Small displacement bikes are limited. Value options are limited. The sweet spot for beginners is the small DS bike market, but not everyone wants to ride a "dirt bike".

Another factor is that people don't see motorcycles as a practical means of transportation and the motorcycle industry hasn't sold it as one either. They just market to dreamers who want to get away from life's daily grind. Greybeards, go-tees, and leather?? Who does that appeal to?

Harley is taking it hard because they have a limited product (4 basic models) and most of it is expensive. Their lineup is almost entirely made of touring bikes and cruisers. No off-road bikes, no race bikes, no mini bikes, no four-wheels or utility vehicles. I think their street lineup is the right idea, but they are still basically $8k - $10k. Not exactly cheap.

Millennials are doers that want to live life, not get away from it, and they don't do leather. Young people would rather spend that money on a travel adventure or put it into a sprinter van build and spend a year driving it around the country.

They only way I see the motorcycle industry prying money out of their hands it to sell the motorcycle as a viable means of transportation.

Hate to break the news to you guys, these kids aren't a stupid as we thought. Well, that is until they realize that they might not have a good job waiting for them at the end of the rainbow. They'll be alright though.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 08/29/18 at 07:26:59

On the Cincinnati Craigslist - you have 1,175 used Harley bikes to choose from.

https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/search/mca?query=Harley

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Fast 650 on 08/29/18 at 07:51:07

That isn't really a fair number though. That figure includes any bike with a HD logo on it, like the Evo's. I don't consider them to be a real Harley after the last ironhead rolled off the production line, or after the last generator shovelhead was assembled. And I only include the generator shovel because those were just outside oiler pans with the wrong heads installed. ;)

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Matchless G11 on 08/29/18 at 15:01:09

True in a lot of ways..
Strangely a bike market that is selling is the Grom and Grom wantabes
I think there is a rebelling sprit that said. "We don't believe you when you say a 850 is a starter bike."

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 08/29/18 at 15:53:29

11080606505013041504020A525554610 wrote:

I think there is a rebelling sprit that said. "We don't believe you when you say a 850 is a starter bike."

I don't believe you when you tell me an 850 is a starter bike!

That is what the Rebel 250 & 400, TU250, SR400, etc. are best at.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by MMRanch on 08/29/18 at 20:10:33

Cheep transportation ?
Well my car gets 37mpg. So a bike getting 42mpg just don't make the cut. The 500 Rebel might fill the requirements for Cheep transportation.

I'm thinking Harley has priced themselves out of the equation . The dealer was showing me a used Street glide last Friday for $18,000.00 +
800+ lbs. 42mpg stuff.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by raydawg on 08/29/18 at 20:46:27

I think Harley learnt from copier manufacturers.....

Sell the bike cheap, then make all the big bucks off of clothing, etc....

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by batman on 08/29/18 at 23:31:24

3D2E362B2E38284F0 wrote:

I think Harley learnt from copier manufacturers.....

Sell the bike cheap, then make all the big bucks off of clothing, etc....

sell the bikes cheap? Raydawg have you checked the cost of a Harley lately?

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Clyde on 08/30/18 at 05:14:24

415341535E4D424F440C0 wrote:

Hey! There are some short white folk out here. That's why I just bought a street 750! :)

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by SoC on 08/30/18 at 08:33:21

Unlike the old days Harley has a lot of competition in the v-twin category. With everybody making them now, it's a pretty common thing. When you can buy a new Honda Fury for a base MSR price of about $10,500, look unline and see them for around 9k, the question might be where is the value.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 08/30/18 at 08:45:18

69686D7F7C7F706D75771E0 wrote:

Or for less than $ 5,000 with only 361 miles on them.......

https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/mcy/d/2016-honda-1300-fury-only-361/6640029416.html

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Serowbot on 08/30/18 at 08:50:27

0003160F030C565A620 wrote:

HD wants to make smaller cheaper bikes to appeal to younger buyers ,...

I think if Harley had made the Blast a lightweight, 500cc, mini-Sportster, they would have had a winner...

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 08/30/18 at 10:14:01

786E79647C69647F0B0 wrote:

I think if Harley had made the Blast a lightweight, 500cc, mini-Sportster, they would have had a winner...

Yes, that would have been a most excellent corporate decision!

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by jcstokes on 08/30/18 at 15:17:08

Do the deal, get Suzuki to kill of the S40 and have it re branded as an HD WITH A Versy tensioner and a standard non vacuum petcock

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by MMRanch on 08/30/18 at 20:14:31

Clyde wrote:

Hey! There are some short white folk out here. That's why I just bought a street 750!

I'm glad you liked it , I like the idea of the 500 version , but my knees came up above the fuel tank. But the Great fuel millage and the nimble look of it them sure got my eye ! ;)

So , if the Savage had a Harley emblem would it get more respect ? :-?

Of course with a Harley emblem it couldn't run as GOOD ! ;D , Well Maybe ? :)

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by batman on 08/31/18 at 22:13:17

I don't know about respect, but the price of parts would at least double.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 09/01/18 at 04:11:29

I think this may be related to this thread.....sort of.

Yesterday I took a long ride up toward Dayton, OH. On the way home it was rush hour so I stayed off the interstate and stayed on Route 4. It was a nice weather and a Friday evening.....I saw a lot of motorcycles. One older Honda Goldwing that was weathered and looked like a commuter, about 5 sport bikes (2 in downtown Cincinnati that had swing arms 3 feet longer than stock and another one in Fairfield that had a back tire 2 feet wide), a Yamaha FJR, a couple of other bikes that were sport touring bikes but too far away to identify. and one helmetless jerk on a ratty sport bike going 80mph on a downtown Cincinnati street --------and about 50 Harleys! I was amazed how many Harleys were on this road - some were guys going home from work, several were guys riding in pairs, and about a dozen were guys/girls out on their Friday night date, and one factory had 4 in the employee parking lot. All the Harleys were shiny, loud, and the riders all had the "I am bad" riding gear on (no helmet, dew rag, sunglasses, etc.).

I do believe that Harley sales are down - but it doesn't appear the riders on Route 4 have stopped riding their bikes!

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by engineer on 09/01/18 at 10:11:20

The bikes I see most often are the large Harleys, around here there must be five Harleys for ever other bike on the road. The sport bikes have nearly disappeared and the adventure touring bikes seem to be the preferred ride of the younger guys and make up the largest group after Harleys. Craigslist has a lot of Harleys listed for sale at any one time and the prices appear to be down a little. I think that anyone who every wanted a Harley already has one.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 09/13/18 at 04:38:48

Well this may be the shape of things to come for the Millennial commuters when they want something bigger than their Grom. The BMW GS was the best selling bike in the UK - but in Italy this now the best selling model.

https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/adventure/x-adv/overview.html

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/265193/honda-sales-beat-bmw-in-italy/

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by engineer on 09/13/18 at 18:37:53

I sort of like the concept of that Honda X ADV, thanks for the link because I didn't know they existed. As I get older I am starting to think that a different motorcycle configuration might be more appropriate in terms of ergonomics, center of gravity and weight. I know too many guys who have given up riding because they couldn't get comfortable or they have lost confidence in handling their bikes. Which brings us back to why Harley sales are down.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by oldNslow on 09/13/18 at 19:40:11

The X ADV is an interesting bike. Expensive though, 9600 pounds in the UK, which is around 12000 US dollars.

I don't think the X ADV is available in the US at this time though.

This place opened up in my town at the beginning of this summer.

https://www.cortesecyclesales.com/

Take a look at the late model low mileage HDs in their inventory. I think part of Harley's problem with new bike sales right now it the glut of really mint almost new HDs out there at really attractive prices compared to new. And this place is less than a half a mile from Cycle Stop, one of the biggest HD dealers in the region.

John Cortese, who opened this store, has been in the new automobile business in Rochester for as long as I've lived here, with multiple successful dealerships. Chrysler, Jeep, Ford, Mitsubishi. I don't think Cortese would have made the investment to open this place unless he was pretty sure he was going to sell a bunch of bikes.

I stopped by not long ago and looked around and I was impressed. All the bikes that I looked at appeared pretty much flawless. Sort of like the low mileage used cars you would expect to see in a high end new car dealer's inventory.

They even had a few of what the salesman I chatted with called "Cortese Customs" Nearly new Harleys with custom paint jobs done in one of the auto dealership's paint shops. Not my taste particularly, but very professionally done. Flawless paint.

It's going to be interesting to see how this venture works out.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 09/14/18 at 03:25:52

If you like scrubbing off rubber in curves - but still want to be able to stuff some clothes in saddlebags and go touring.......the Honda Interceptor is a great bike - even though it is 16 years old!

https://www.cortesecyclesales.com/default.asp?page=xInventoryDetail&id=5803769&p=1&s=Price&d=A&fr=xallinventory

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by ohiomoto on 09/14/18 at 05:45:23

Dave,

I think you are missing the point. You are posting bikes you would ride. (Well, maybe that's part of the point, they aren't Harley's either.) If a millennial were willing to ride a bike, they wouldn't be caught dead on that interceptor and they wouldn't drop $12k on something they won't understand until they become an enthusiast. The motorcycle industry is so far out of touch with the younger generation it's not even funny.

If I had to guess, they would be smart building small bikes and scooters that appeal to women and market the crap out of them. Young women are fiercely independent and progressive. Once the young, "wuss bag" male sees a girl riding a motorcycle he'll follow her lead. That's what young males do these days, they follow the female lead (as they should because girls aren't the wuss bags.) ;D

But, if you can get them started, the ADV would be right up their alley.

That said, I'm still not sure they are buying. Motorcycling is not a very social sport. You ride around for hours NOT talking, NOT texting, NOT instagraming, NOT tweating, NOT reading your friends posts...NOT communicating.

That's why I think it has to be seen as a viable means of transportation.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Eegore on 09/14/18 at 06:44:10

I agree with Ohiomoto, marketing a smaller bike, and to females is what will appeal to the younger generation. Of the bikes I've had the 95 Savages are the most appealing to new riders, and females like that they can pick them up on their own with no help. For that matter I do too. When I go down I can pull my leg out from under it easy.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 09/14/18 at 08:03:15

797E7F797B796279160 wrote:

Dave,

I think you are missing the point. You are posting bikes you would ride.

Yeah.....I got distracted by the link that oldNslow posted and did get a bit off the Harley topic. And you are correct - the Interceptor is the only one of the used bikes at Cortese that I would buy.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by MMRanch on 09/14/18 at 16:22:09

Don't let it bother ya Dave ..

I went and sat on a Royal Enfield Himalia today . its only $4,600 new and there ain't a Harley anywhere that feels like so much fun waiting to happen.

;)

The one they had in stock had silver looking hard suitcase boxes and quick disconnect mounting system , built in luggage rack , windshield (small) , and a 4 gal fuel tank. It was already sold but was waiting on a engine guard they had ordered.

The Saleman Said " They sell faster than I can get them " ! ::)

Harley don't have that problem :-?

From what the salesman said those 650 twin Royal Enfield bikes are selling faster than they can make them too. The Nashville dealer ain't even seen on of them yet , but he did show me the 2019 model sheet.
https://www.royalenfield.com/motorcycles/twins/

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 09/28/18 at 04:18:54

Evidently....sales in the UK are increasing.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-24/harley-is-winning-in-europe-without-a-trade-war

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by jcstokes on 09/28/18 at 17:07:35

I see the guy buying the Harley is a fifty four year old web developer, at or near the peak of his earnings.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by ohiomoto on 01/18/19 at 06:17:56

Here is something HD did that is actually really smart: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/harley-davidson-funded-study-proves-motorcycling-provides-physical-and-mental-benefits/

And even though they funded the study, I think the results could be legitimate.

I'm not sure how much this will help them market to the menials, buy it will help greybeards justify their riding habits to their "old ladies". LOL

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by ohiomoto on 01/25/19 at 19:58:39

2027262022203B204F0 wrote:

---------------------

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/actually-young-people-really-could-kill-harley-davidson.html

I don't work for UBS, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn... ;)

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by oldNslow on 01/26/19 at 09:19:37

Quote:

Millennials are doers that want to live life, not get away from it, and they don't do leather. Young people would rather spend that money on a travel adventure or put it into a sprinter van build and spend a year driving it around the country.

Hate to break the news to you guys, these kids aren't a stupid as we thought.

Yup.

Stereotyping Millennials as being all the same, is just as stupid as stereotyping everyone who rides a Harley as a pirate dressing, loud pipe, one per-center wannabe.

My son is a Millennial, as his his wife. They both have advanced degrees in fields that allow them to have a very Good income. Much better than mine was before I retired. There are two motorcycles in their garage. A Honda VTX1300c and a Triumph Thruxton. Among their circle of close friends, also mostly Millennials I can count the following motorcycles: Triumph Rocket !!!, Heritage Softtalil classic, Two Victory Cross Countrys ( a husband and wife own identical bikes), A Harley Vrod, A Honda cb300f and a brand new Softalil Slim. There are also a couple of small dirt bikes that one couples' kids ride.

" The only way I see the motorcycle industry prying money out of their hands it to sell the motorcycle as a viable means of transportation."

I'm not too sure about that. The young folks I'm referring to all use cars or trucks as their primary means of transportation. The bikes are recreational vehicles.

The common denominator is a certain level of disposable income. And possibly growing up in a household where they were exposed to motorcycles. My son, and some of the others, had Dads that rode, or ride, so they had some exposure to bikes growing up.

I think Harley has two big problems. Its product line is not diverse enough, and it's marketing strategy is just plain stupid.

They need to stop with the "wind in your hair, "rebel without a clue" nonsense and focus on the motorcycles themselves, which, when used for what they were designed for, are mostly good bikes. The big touring bikes especially.

They also need to figure out a way to get the dealers on board when a model that's out of the HD mainstream is introduced. The Street line for example. Those are not bad bikes-although the first model year examples had some issues that have since been resolved - but when you walk into a dealership and ask about one and the salesman tells you "Nah, You don't want one of those. How about this Sportster over here ? It's not that much more and it's a 'real Harley'", they aren't going to sell very many, especially to folks looking to buy their first bike, or their first Harley.

There are 4 HD dealers within 50 miles of where I live. There is not a single 2018 or 2019 Street model in the current inventory at any of them.You can't sell what you don't have, even if you want to.Same thing happened to the Vrod, and of course Buell.

And then there is the Livewire. Any one at the Motor Company who had anything to do with that debacle needs to be looking for work in another field.

I like Harleys. I own one. I wish them well. There is nothing wrong with the motorcycles. There is a lot wrong with the folks running the company right now unfortunately.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by verslagen1 on 01/26/19 at 11:12:31

506E6F63716D6C020 wrote:

" The only way I see the motorcycle industry prying money out of their hands it to sell the motorcycle as a viable means of transportation."

I'm not too sure about that. The young folks I'm referring to all use cars or trucks as their primary means of transportation. The bikes are recreational vehicles.

If the recreation market is already saturated and you don't see it as transportation, what's next? m/c's as art?

When you can get 4 m/c's in the space of every car and grid locked cars are only a filter for m/c's... means of transportation is a necessity.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by oldNslow on 01/26/19 at 12:21:38

Quote:

When you can get 4 m/c's in the space of every car and grid locked cars are only a filter for m/c's... means of transportation is a necessity.

Perhaps in a few locations in the US, but not most of the country. Most places have a riding season that is only half or 3/4ths of each year. And No place other than California that I'm aware of has legal lane splitting, regardless of how bad traffic is.

Where I live the riding season starts in the middle of March during a good year - that's when the first spring rain washes the salt off the roads - and ends in November when it first snows. And that only applies to folks willing to ride in morning temps often in the mid thirties. I don't know a single person around here who even entertains the idea that a motorcycle is a viable means of year round transportation. Trying to market them as such in this locale is never going to happen. I think that is the case in most of the US.

Add to that the vastly increased aggressiveness, inattentiveness,and simple incompetence of automobile drivers even compared to a decade or so ago, and the number of distracting devices actually BUILT INTO modern cars and trucks, trying to market motorcycles as a safe, comfortable means of utilitarian transport is just not going to work IMO.

Motorcycles in this country will always be vehicles for enthusiasts. I ride because it's fun. So does everyone else I know.

I was a teenager when Honda started importing their first small bikes into the US. Honda didn't try to convince folks that they were replacements for the family station wagon. They told folks they were fun.

Somehow today's motorcycle makers, not just Harley, have got to get that message across to youngsters today. And make the bikes that will make it true.

That approach worked on me. I harassed my parents relentlessly until they gave in and allowed me to buy a (used) one of these:

https://www.bike-urious.com/1964-honda-c200/

I can't remember what a new one cost, but mine was a few months old and cost me my life savings at that point. $265 OTD :)

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by batman on 01/26/19 at 16:36:30

If anyone wants to sell an electric/gas hybrid motorcycle, I'm listening ! but I'm not holding my breath, or waiting to ride in the meantime!

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by jcstokes on 01/26/19 at 19:38:17

Thyere was actually a popular song about Hondas in the sixties, some of the verse went "First gear, lean right, second gear hang on tight" or words to that effect. The song was called "Little Honda" and was sung by the Beach Boys. In a You Tube version a young woman, now a probable granny is seen gyrating in a potentially suggestive manner. Large numbers of Boomers, now potetial grand parents are seen swinging along. According to the song, the Honda climbs hills better than a Matchless.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by raydawg on 01/27/19 at 09:00:13

Seems all bikes prices are down......

I've been checking out bikes and I am amazed just how cheap used bikes are, you can get a screaming deal on bikes under 5K :o

Also, I've been seeing more trikes and other contraptions with a enclosed cab, that they still call a motorcycle (?) that might be a growing market, not sure? :-/

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 01/27/19 at 10:03:20

4C5F475A5F49593E0 wrote:

Absolutely.....if you are willing to look and buy a bargain - you can get absolute deals. A neighbor of mine had a Suzuki Volusia 800 that he installed cast wheels so he could have tubeless tires and he had nearly new Michelin Commanders installed, a windshield, and he swapped the rear end from a Volusia 1,000 so he had a bit taller gearing. It only had 6,000 gentle miles on it and was stored inside...he sold it for $2,400 and included the original spoked wheels and 800 rear end! I was slightly tempted - but then I considered I really don't want to ride a big V-Twin, and if I bought it to resell I would not make any money by the time I paid the taxes on the purchase.

The 3 wheel vehicles are selling to the folks who want the open air fun of a motorcycle - but are not brave or healthy enough to ride a 2 wheeler. If you go to the resorty areas....you will see more of them than you do out here in rural America. They are a pricey toy!

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by raydawg on 01/27/19 at 12:51:17

Yeah, it seems most I observed want to get out of the weather.
And most appeared electric too!

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Beerm8 on 01/27/19 at 14:20:13

jc i'm pretty sure that was the Hondells, not the Beach Boys

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Matchless G11 on 01/27/19 at 15:57:39

According to the song, the Honda climbs hills better than a Matchless.[/quote]

I might have something to say about that! 8-)

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/27/19 at 20:09:26

Time for a Miata.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by jcstokes on 01/28/19 at 02:05:40

BeerM8, you could be right, I'm sure the song I saw on You Tube was The Beach Boys, but I'd had some beer and could be wrong.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 01/28/19 at 06:29:42

You are both right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZOGlgVldAs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHmRxpumtB4

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by jcstokes on 01/28/19 at 10:27:51

Ok Matchless G 11, it climbs hills like a Matchless cause it's built really light.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Matchless G11 on 01/28/19 at 16:47:30

I have thought of having a sticker for the rear fender that says.

"Climbs hills like a what?"

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by T And T Garage on 01/29/19 at 08:28:27

More bad news from Milwaukee:

Harley-Davidson shares tank after big earnings miss

The company reported $500,000 in net income during the fourth quarter, versus net income of $8.3 million on consolidated revenue of $1.23 billion in the same period in 2017.

Harley-Davidson has struggled in recent years with declining sales and fears buyers simply are not as interested in motorcycles as they have been in previous generations.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/harley-davidson-shares-tank-big-122600213.html

That's the sad truth - buyers simply are not as interested in motorcycles as they have been in previous generations.

It's not just a Harley problem. How does the motorcycle industry address that?

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by ohiomoto on 01/29/19 at 10:41:36

Maybe HD isn't completely clueless. Maybe they can start to attract younger buyers with less expensive "bikes" and build a future market...

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/video-first-test-rides-of-harleys-small-electric-bikes

"During his test ride, Mitrani noted that “everywhere I went, people were stopping and taking photos.” Isn’t that what these electric bikes are all about? Reaching new riders with new technologies and designs? Always good to see people excited about getting on two wheels. Time will tell how this strategy plays out for Harley-Davidson."

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by MMRanch on 01/29/19 at 18:28:06

That's the sad truth - buyers simply are not as interested in motorcycles as they have been in previous generations.

It's not just a Harley problem. How does the motorcycle industry address that?

I made a natural transition from a bicycle to a small motorcycle. This next generation did't ride bicycles to much .

I also had a "need" for cheep transportation , young folks might not have that same need so much ? :-?

Fact is , back then good mpg on a car meant the VW bug at 28 mpg. Now days my car gets 35 mpg and a lot of motorcycles get 28 mpg. So much for "cheep" transportation.

I had a single carbed CD-Honda-175 that got about 85mpg. But it toped out at 70 mph. My idea of "Cheep Transportation" ! ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CD175

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by oldNslow on 01/29/19 at 19:36:34

Quote:

Maybe HD isn't completely clueless.

Yes they are.

Those things are nothing more than gadgets for the X games crowd. If Harley actually tries to market such things as that, the Chinese or S. Koreans will grab one, copy it, and put their version on the market for half the price. If the geniuses running the MoCo think that those contraptions are going to be the salvation of the brand they might as well throw in the towel right now.

They need to face facts, tighten their belt, make the most of what they've got, and concentrate on doing what they know how to do well. Will their market contract, sales be fewer? Sure. But demand isn't going to go away completely. Focus on what makes the BIKES different and Unique. And force their dealers to make first- class customer service a priority. Market that. Forget about the lifestyle bullsh*t that they push so hard, and focus on being a premium brand.

And fire everyone who ever thought that an Electric Harley Davidson,of any size, was a good idea.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by jcstokes on 01/29/19 at 19:49:22

What does make a Harley different and unique from other Vtwin cruiser type bikes? Reliability, handling, fuel economy, noise, style, born in the USA or what? As several here have pointed out, the US market appears to be saturated with good condition, low mileage second hand ones at significantly reduced prices.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by Dave on 01/30/19 at 05:32:22

2C253532292D2335460 wrote:

What does make a Harley different and unique from other Vtwin cruiser type bikes?

A lot of their appeal is legend......and the cultural acceptance of owning an American motorcycle. Folks buy them for the same reason they buy Polo and Izod shirts......it is a cultural fashion statement and fulfills their inner desire to be a "biker" and fit in with the other bikers.

Not all Harley's are bad, and Serowbot, Lancer, MMRanch, MPescatori and other forum members can tell you - they can be reliable and fun bikes to own and ride. My Harley experience is pretty limited - I rented a Softail Classic for 24 hours while vacationing in Florida, and I have ridden MMRanch's 883 Sportster several times. They both were fun to ride, the softail was big and heavy and challenged my physical strength at traffic lights and in parking lots - and it certainly was not overpowered.....but on the highway it just loafed along at 70mph like it was no big deal. MM's Sportster was a hoot to accelerate and listen to the sound of the engine going potato, potato, potato - it has the sound of "manliness".

I am not sure how Harley can keep their icon status - I don't know if there are going to be enough "new" motorcycle sales to keep the massive overhead that the dealers and corporation require.....around here the Harley dealers are massive and located in high rent districts. There are so many used bikes for sale at prices so far below dealer prices for new bikes - I just don't see how they can keep so many expensive dealers operating.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by ohiomoto on 01/30/19 at 05:53:44

320C0D01130F0E600 wrote:

Those things are nothing more than gadgets for the X games crowd. If Harley actually tries to market such things as that, the Chinese or S. Koreans will grab one, copy it, and put their version on the market for half the price.

HD is the one doing the copying on this one. Those bikes are out there right now. Guess you missed it because they aren't coming from a marketing giant. ;)

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by oldNslow on 01/30/19 at 06:34:52

Quote:

HD is the one doing the copying on this one. Those bikes are out there right now. Guess you missed it because they aren't coming from a marketing giant. Wink

Probably more because I don't pay much attention to that particular market niche. If the Harley prototypes really are derivatives of stuff that's already out there, well, that's even worse for HD's future IMO. I don't see many folks that want an electric mountain bike going to the local Harley Dealership looking for one.

Title: Re: Why Harley Sales are down.
Post by MMRanch on 01/30/19 at 07:42:01

I've had two Harleys ,

One was Carb-ed , one fuel- injected.

The Carb-ed one was easier on fuel and ran just fine . But the injected one didn't have the same feel to it. It was like "Leather vs Plastic .

The relay for the injector only went out once , but every time I filled the fuel tank I was reminded about the Carb-ed version getting 52-55 mpg and the injected version getting 45-50mpg .
Its like they fixed what wasn't broken , just to keep-up with the Honda's ! ;D

Instead of lowering their price to beat the Honda price they tried to beat Honda at Honda's own game ! What a bunch of Screw-balls !