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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Venezuela /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1534214078 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 08/13/18 at 19:34:37 |
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Title: Venezuela Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/13/18 at 19:34:37 Why are socialists not learning from this train wreck? |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by T And T Garage on 08/13/18 at 21:28:25 Well, it's a good thing that democratic socialists here in the US don't support pure socialism then. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/13/18 at 22:08:39 I don't think I know what Democratic Socialism is. Sounds like Vote for a program that redistribute wealth. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by Eegore on 08/14/18 at 05:43:31 Venezuela and the US are not close to being direct comparisons. Its like asking why we haven't learned from Australia that gun crimes and suicides go down when you strip the public of guns. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/14/18 at 11:00:42 Try a different analogy. This isn't about guns, rights to self defense or resisting a tyrannical government. What IS democratic socialism? Why will it not destroy the economy? |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by Eegore on 08/14/18 at 12:41:23 "This isn't about guns, rights to self defense or resisting a tyrannical government." No, its about using Venezuela as an example of why socialism doesn't work in the US. Just like other foreign policy doesn't work in the US. People that are pro-socialism in the US don't use Venezuela as an example precisely because its in Venezuela. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by MShipley on 08/14/18 at 13:07:58 I have not seen a place where it works, period. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by faffi on 08/14/18 at 14:27:52 If you consider socialism the way it's found in Cuba or North Korea, I think you are correct. If you think of socialism in the European sense, which is heavily influenced by the market, I'm not inclined to agree. If someone wants to dive heavily into the Nordic model, they can have a treat here: http://bora.uib.no/bitstream/handle/1956/7677/114744336.pdf;sequence=1 |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/14/18 at 16:39:43 Enough running around and dodging. If you don't know how to defend and explain WHAT Democratic Socialism Is, Then STFU about it. Or Explain why it's gonna work. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/14/18 at 16:40:42 At least explain how it differs from Real socialism |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by Eegore on 08/14/18 at 17:16:56 I don't really know, T and T Garage, being the only person who's mentioned it, would be the best person to explain. I was responding to your original post prior to Democratic Socialism being mentioned. I don't believe any pro-socialist in the US is using Venezuela as a working model, democratic or otherwise. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by raydawg on 08/14/18 at 17:40:28 Yeah, I think lumping it together with failed states won’t solve anything, or invite discussion. Let’s start at the basic... We have k-12 education, which we can say is socialism. You have childless folk paying into it, with no direct benefit. Can we agree on that? |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/14/18 at 19:04:26 Yeah, TT goes quiet.. Amazing.. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by T And T Garage on 08/14/18 at 20:38:16 203F393E23241525152D3F33784A0 wrote:
Then you should find out what it is. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by T And T Garage on 08/14/18 at 20:39:52 69774C4D5448415D240 wrote:
Pure socialism? No, not very successful. Democratic socialism? Well, it's been working pretty well here. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by T And T Garage on 08/14/18 at 20:41:35 435C5A5D40477646764E5C501B290 wrote:
jog - some of us have lives outside this little forum. You should look into that. (as well as finding out what democratic socialism is) |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/14/18 at 20:49:31 I looked it up. Don't understand exactly. What is your answer? It sounds like A population votes for what it wants. Then something magical happens Other people PAY for it. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by T And T Garage on 08/15/18 at 06:20:29 6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:
Well then I see you really don't understand it then. Look around you jog. We are currently living in a democratic socialist country. Conservatives for some reason refuse to believe that and are pushing us into an oligarchy. Our president's administration just gave a ton of welfare to the top 1% and corporations. That is pure capitalism and that's what's killing the middle class. When you have to worry about going bankrupt when you get sick or get in an accident, something's wrong. When you spend billions on tax breaks for the rich while our roads and bridges crumble, something's wrong. When there are hundreds of thousands homeless in this country (and far too many veterans), something is wrong. When we've paid into our social security and somehow it's not going to be there for us (yeah, I know, the democrats raided it just as much as the republicans), something's wrong. That's the tip of the iceberg jog. If you're really interested, which I highly doubt, simply go look at the justice democrat's site. It's spelled out fairly simply. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/15/18 at 09:47:14 I looked That's not viable. Why would I take lessons from Bamicare believers? You can't guarantee JOBS. You can only develop policies that are conducive to people taking the risk of starting a business. Eliminate ICE? You don't understand what happens when there are fifty people waiting for you to quit your job? You EXPECT employers to pay good wages, right? Well. Onceafukkinggain, Labor is a COMMODITY. When the labor market is full of unemployed people, employers don't have to appreciate you. When unemployed people are few, employers must value their employees. Guess what THAT means. You can have your dreams But you will not change Human nature. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by T And T Garage on 08/15/18 at 10:11:38 2F3036312C2B1A2A1A22303C77450 wrote:
Well jog - looks like corporate america has you by the short hairs and you're taking a walk with them. Good luck with that. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/15/18 at 10:37:18 It's not Corporate America. It's the economic system that has been the Only Sustainable economic system in the history of the world, but you and your lefty friends can pretend you have a better answer. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by T And T Garage on 08/15/18 at 11:52:25 203F393E23241525152D3F33784A0 wrote:
We do have a better answer. In our "crazy" world, you don't have to declare bankruptcy if you get in an accident or have a disease - you don't let corporations determine the outcome of elections with their "free speech" donations of dark money - the tax breaks and the incentives to buy more goods and services fall to the middle class... I could go on and on, but it's fruitless. And think about this - Bernie Sander's "crazy" idea about Medicare For All would actually lower the government's bill - Total national health spending would be $2 trillion lower from 2022 to 2031 under the plan |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/15/18 at 14:35:35 I'm not able to envision it. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by T And T Garage on 08/15/18 at 14:55:24 36292F2835320333033B29256E5C0 wrote:
Well - therein lies the problem with most conservatives. |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by MnSpring on 08/16/18 at 15:21:28 170906070A170C11630 wrote:
See post #2 here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1534452280 And the List goes on ! |
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Title: Re: Venezuela Post by T And T Garage on 08/16/18 at 15:31:30 7F5C6142405B5C55320 wrote:
See post #2 here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1534452280 And the List goes on ![/quote] Well mn, technically it's response #2 and I answered it accordingly. |
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