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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Fox poll, NHS... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1533311648 Message started by Serowbot on 08/03/18 at 08:54:08 |
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Title: Fox poll, NHS... Post by Serowbot on 08/03/18 at 08:54:08 Ooops... :-?... Well, this Fox & Friends Twitter poll on “Medicare for All” didn’t go as planned http://https://images.fastcompany.net/image/upload/w_596,c_limit,q_auto:best,f_auto/wp-cms/uploads/2018/08/i-1-well-this-fox-andamp-friends-twitter-poll-on-and8220medicare-for-alland8221-didnand8217t-go-as-planned.jpg At the same time, it’s not that far off from actual polling around the issue. In March, a Kaiser Health tracking poll revealed that 6 in 10 Americans are in favor of a national healthcare system in which all Americans would get health insurance from a single government plan. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by T And T Garage on 08/03/18 at 09:12:17 It's simply common sense to do this. "Medicare For All" polls higher than anything else. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by Eegore on 08/03/18 at 09:44:37 Look at the VA, that's about as close as we have ever come in the US to a single payer plan. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by Serowbot on 08/03/18 at 09:49:23 ... or look at other countries that have had successful, and much beloved, NHS for 50 over years... with lower death rates, more longevity, and better health than the US... |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by faffi on 08/03/18 at 13:16:50 USA have the costliest, least efficient health care system in the world. It is very, very good for the fortunate, and less good for a substantial group of the population. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/13/us-healthcare-costs-causes-drug-prices-salaries Another thing to consider is that having sick people, even if they have no welfare backup, always cost the society in the form of reduced productivity. Hence it makes economic sense to keep people as well as possible for as little cost as possible. There are far better ways to do this than the American way ;) |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/03/18 at 16:42:14 My wife was in Scott and White, Temple Texas. That hospital had RV parking. The number of them with Canadian tags showed me the difference between free health care and The Best.. I knew a Guzzi rider from a forum. Retired electrician, IIRC, and he up and Died. He complained about the treatment, and never got better,, Upper respiratory stuff, just a cough, and they never actually addressed it. You Common Sensers aren't thinking. Once A FUKKING GAIN. PAY ATTENTION Our health care system was FINE. Someone decided we needed HMOs. You realize that Created a Whole New College Educated Job, right? Medical Coding PAYS,, And that's a purely parasitic burden. It took years of that foolishness to create the crisis. Understand Problem Reaction Solution You leftist, collectivist, economically ignorant people are dragging America into a hole. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by MnSpring on 08/03/18 at 16:53:06 7462756870656873070 wrote:
Would this be the, ‘Civilized’ nations. Where they do NOT, pay their fair share of NATO, and the UN, Yet Reap ALL the Benefits while the US Pays for them ? Would this be the, ‘Civilized’ nations, which spend peanuts on their military/protection, because they know the US does it for them ? Would this be the, ‘Civilized’ nations. Where a broken leg, a tooth pulled, eye glasses, are great. Yet a Major, Heart, Cancer, etc, problem, they QUICKLY seek help in the USA ? Would this be one of those, ‘Civilized’ nations ? |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by Serowbot on 08/03/18 at 17:06:24 Nope... those are imaginary countries... |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/03/18 at 17:33:55 Where the answers to the world's problems the lefties embrace come from. Imaginary solutions.. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by thumperclone on 08/03/18 at 18:54:35 Once A FUKKING GAIN. PAY ATTENTION... you are WRONG Sherlock our private health care system is PROFIT driven period. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/03/18 at 19:26:16 Yes, it is. It's DESIGNED to reward the best and brightest. And when your doctor gets paid Just Like Every Other Doctor where is the motivation to excel? Do YOU work for money? You REALLY need to rethink things. Or explain WHY anyone would want to be in the medical field. Do you have a response to the damage HMOs did ? |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by faffi on 08/04/18 at 03:29:27 Go watch this if you dare, as it potentially make you change your opinion http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1533349001 |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by WebsterMark on 08/04/18 at 05:30:17 2B372A322F3A2D3C3330313A5F0 wrote:
For profit companies is what makes all this possible. All of us riding motorcycles, sitting in warm or cool homes and typing on a computer. For profit. Nothing else. The quest for profit is what has allowed the world's population to transform itself from a dreary day to day struggle to survive to having so much prosperity, a bunch of middle aged men thousands of miles apart can argue over topics. I just read this fascinating article about the history of the light bulb. In that, it detailed how we take for granted the huge benefits from a reliable product. This particular article detailed how the price of 100 lumens of light has been reduced by a factor of 500,000. It wasn't all that long ago in our history and certainly in some areas of the world, where the simple act of providing light takes a substantial number of hours out of the day and a high % of limited income. And that's just one simple product none of us on here even think about anymore. I got up this morning, flipped on several lights and that's completely because of for-profit companies over the years responding to demand. And for profit healthcare is better than government healthcare. It's not a debatable point. Would I love to have zero cost for the same level of healthcare I have available to me now? Absolutely. My son is thinking about a job/career switch, but the reality is because his insurance is through his employer, that's a factor that must be taken into account because he has a child. It would be great if that weren't the case. I'd love not to factor healthcare cost into retirement, but I must. So I would love 'free' healthcare. But, whoever pointed out the VA is right, that's what we'd get. The VA isn't exactly known for it's groundbreaking R&D programs now is it? And these comments about the beloved NHS is nonsense. They've accepted a lower level of care for 'free' and learned to live with the consequences. It's the quest for profit (capitalism) which has allowed the world to flourish. Life is so much better today than in the past and it's because of this prosperity that some are able to complain about it. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by T And T Garage on 08/04/18 at 07:47:57 447671606776615E726178130 wrote:
For profit companies is what makes all this possible. All of us riding motorcycles, sitting in warm or cool homes and typing on a computer. For profit. Nothing else. The quest for profit is what has allowed the world's population to transform itself from a dreary day to day struggle to survive to having so much prosperity, a bunch of middle aged men thousands of miles apart can argue over topics. I just read this fascinating article about the history of the light bulb. In that, it detailed how we take for granted the huge benefits from a reliable product. This particular article detailed how the price of 100 lumens of light has been reduced by a factor of 500,000. It wasn't all that long ago in our history and certainly in some areas of the world, where the simple act of providing light takes a substantial number of hours out of the day and a high % of limited income. And that's just one simple product none of us on here even think about anymore. I got up this morning, flipped on several lights and that's completely because of for-profit companies over the years responding to demand. And for profit healthcare is better than government healthcare. It's not a debatable point. Actually mark, it's a very debatable point. How is it that we are the richest country on the planet, yet have a higher infant mortality rate than most industrialized countries? You honestly think it's OK that people go bankrupt due to healthcare bills? You simply have no basis to say such a thing. Would I love to have zero cost for the same level of healthcare I have available to me now? Absolutely. My son is thinking about a job/career switch, but the reality is because his insurance is through his employer, that's a factor that must be taken into account because he has a child. It would be great if that weren't the case. I'd love not to factor healthcare cost into retirement, but I must. Yet you say that for profit healthcare is better? Do you not see your own hypocrisy? So I would love 'free' healthcare. But, whoever pointed out the VA is right, that's what we'd get. The VA isn't exactly known for it's groundbreaking R&D programs now is it? And these comments about the beloved NHS is nonsense. They've accepted a lower level of care for 'free' and learned to live with the consequences. Apples and oranges - medicare for all is basically insurance, not government run hospital. It's the quest for profit (capitalism) which has allowed the world to flourish. Life is so much better today than in the past and it's because of this prosperity that some are able to complain about it. [/quote] Is it? Think about who pays all the taxes.... |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by MnSpring on 08/04/18 at 09:24:49 Here is a possible happening. The USA, stops it tremendous funding of other nations defenses, (Which the USA spends MORE, than the top 5 countries Combined) And then just funds, this one. Now a huge amount of money, (your collected taxes), is available, and it goes to, ‘insurance’ so that their is a NHS, and it is FREE, (Well not really, YOU paid the taxes, but it is, apparently so, because the taxes are not raised, because the USA, Stopped, Defending the nations, who are, ‘civilized’) Works for a while, tell the accountants see that a hospital is charging $10.00 for a Aspirin. So they make a law, that a hospital can only charge, $0.01 for a Aspirin. Soon the rest of the items go the same way. So now, a Doctor only can make X amount. (Unless he/she goes into private practice) (Here is a part T&T says he can’t understand) Ever go into a, store, a salesperson comes up, (if it happens at all), and in a voice like Marvin from HHGTTG, he/she says: ‘canihelpyou’. Well that would be the H.C. Staff, once the ultra-liberal accounts get their way. BUT, you break leg, it gets fixed, and it’s FREE. (well not really, but at no extra cost to you) Yet you are diagnosed with a serious condition, and you, MAY, get a appointment to deal with it in a year or two. So you go to the, ‘private’ place, and you pay out of pocket. What would be a solution ? One thing I believe would greatly help, is to open up, ALL insurance companies to cover EVERYBODY. That is called, ‘Competition’. That is NOT happening now. Today, it is, ONLY, ’select’, companies that are, ‘allowed’ to sell in a certain area. (Gee can one say Left Hand Dollar?) (OH, T&T, do you need, 'left hand dollar', explained to you ?) It is Just like a gas station in a town, where for 100 miles around their is no other gas station, so they charge 5.00 for a gallon. Yet the town that is 100 miles away, has 5 gas stations, and they charge 2.00 for, THE SAME gallon. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by T And T Garage on 08/04/18 at 09:38:20 65467B585A41464F280 wrote:
mn - your posts make no sense. There are so many strawmen that it looks like a farm. (do you get that analogy?) I'm sorry I don't follow them. I'm also sorry you feel the need to continually call me out. Maybe try to debate a topic without calling out other posters? Perhaps use fewer bold characters and proper punctuation? But hey, that's only a suggestion and you are obviously entitled to your own opinion and to post it however you'd like. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by faffi on 08/04/18 at 10:26:09 "How is it that we are the richest country on the planet, yet have a higher infant mortality rate than most industrialized countries? " The goal is perhaps not to have kids live and grow and prosper and deliver value to the society? What's important, it could seem, is to prevent murder by abortion, once born they are free to perish.? Of course, that is flippant and a low blow, but also points out that not everything we say, think or mean are thought through fully. A healthy people is a huge asset for a country and investing in sensible health care is something that make financial sense. Especially if people delivering health care doesn't have money-making as their primary goal, but instead focus on delivering a great service and proper value for money. YMMV. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by raydawg on 08/04/18 at 10:34:11 Oh, you and TT have similar posting characteristics..... Did you see this poll? https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/ibd-tipp-poll-media/ |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by faffi on 08/04/18 at 10:53:53 Even if things are on the rise, that does not prove that it couldn't be a lot better ;) |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by raydawg on 08/04/18 at 10:58:14 Well, isn’t the hope what drives people to better themselves and their lot? Give a man a fish, or teach him to fish...... A pessimist, or a optimist? Enjoy the moment, fret about the future, or complain about the past? Which seems more enjoyable? |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by Serowbot on 08/04/18 at 12:39:19 For profit works when we can shop for the best deals,... You go to the gas station with the lowest gas prices. If you have a health crisis, you can't know comparative costs. Hospitals won't even give estimates. And you can't predict outcomes. If you're in an accident,... you can't call your provider and ask if the helicopter transport is covered. They charge based on how much profit they need... or want,.. or can get... There are no flat rates. Most hospital bills are inaccurate, and almost always overcharge. Even experts working full time can't evaluate all the comparative possibilities of HMO coverage. If you can't compare,... how can you choose wisely?... How can for profit benefit the consumer?... All you're doing is paying a middleman to deny coverage based on profitability. It just can't work for healthcare. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by MnSpring on 08/04/18 at 14:54:59 293F28352D38352E5A0 wrote:
Their are, Many, health care items, that, Can, be priced ahead of time. Many. If you have a health crisis, you can’t know comparative costs. That would like being from MN, having a trailer break in AZ, and stop at the first place that looked like they could weld. If I knew it was going to break on that trip, would have it welded, Before I went, after asking people, what it would cost. In this case, I was at the total mercy of that person. (Fortunate he was skilled, and a very fair person) Hospitals won’t even give estimates. Yes they will, you Have to ask ! If you're in an accident,... you can't call your provider and ask if the helicopter transport is covered. There are no flat rates. Most hospital bills are inaccurate, and almost always overcharge. True, because it is, NOT a planed event. However one, can, negate price, after the fact. Less adjustment because of less leverage, yet it can be done. People just have to DO IT, but they don’t, “let the insurance take care of it”, they say. If you can't compare,... how can you choose wisely?... How can for profit benefit the consumer?... All you're doing is paying a middleman to deny coverage based on profitability. Yes it can. First, the competition among insurance companies. Let it happen, do not let it be a absolute monopoly, with ‘kick backs’. Then the price for care/procedure, will follow. With the same thing being higher or lower, depending of the person doing the job. Their are gas stations that sell for .99, another one for 1.01. They are both in business, they are next to each other. Something is different, does one have big bobbed friendly attendants, another greasy don’t care attendants ? Does one have clean restrooms, and one not ? Does one have the snacks you like and the other does not ? Who knows, it is your choice. Why are their $500.00 a hour Lawyers, and $50.00 per hour ones ? For profit HC can work, and for profit HC, is Far better than, the fixed rate. If the fixed care was better, why when I go to Rochester MN, (a good gun shop their), and drive by one of the Mayo Clinics parking lots, the VAST majority of cars I see, have Canadian Plates. The insurance companies have to be allowed to compete. Competition. The rest will follow. But they are, GIVEN, a Monopoly on the business, by politicians, for a Kick Back. |
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Title: Re: Fox poll, NHS... Post by WebsterMark on 08/05/18 at 05:27:01 584E59445C49445F2B0 wrote:
You're somewhat proving my point. Healthcare and insurance are two different things, obviously closely tied together in this case. If healthcare insurance we're competitive, like every other form of insurance, we'd see real progress. Right now, there's too many hands in the cookie jar making a good living and not offering much value in the chain. That's a tough chain to break. |
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