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Message started by Shipyard on 07/24/18 at 10:58:04

Title: Bike starts but slowly dies - new problem-carb...
Post by Shipyard on 07/24/18 at 10:58:04

I've had my 2003 Savage for 3 seasons now. Bike only has about 7200 miles on it. Has run like a top until this week.

I've only ridden it once or twice this season and has been sitting rather idle the last couple months. Now when I start it; it starts a little hard but it takes off at nice smooth idle. After about 4-6 minutes as the bike warms up the idle speed slowly decreases until it will just die off.

if you ride the throttle it stays running just fine. Can ride it, but it'll stall when you come to a stop sign etc. (go to idle).

I checked the petcock and lines to the carb to ensure it was getting gas - clean as a whistle. I took the carb out and cleaned the main and idle jets. this seemed to help the problem, but now it's extended out to 10-15 minutes of idle before it dies a slow death.

The service manual is fresh out of options - any thoughts on what my problem could be?

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - a plea for help!
Post by Eegore on 07/24/18 at 11:11:42

I would dump the stock petcock, and go with the raptor one.

Not sure if that is the solution but the stock petcock needs to go eventually.

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - a plea for help!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/18 at 11:30:45

Flip it to Prime.
See what happens

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - a plea for help!
Post by Serowbot on 07/24/18 at 11:41:23

How to test yer' pet... 8-)
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - a plea for help!
Post by stewmills on 07/24/18 at 13:08:02

Probably a petcock issue, but don't overlook the gas cap. If it isn't venting and is building up a vacuum it will not let gravity feet the carb. I don't have a technical way of cleaning the gas cap guts aside from taking it off and shooting it full of WD40 and blowing it our with an air compressor before reinstalling. If you are technically savvy you can take it completely apart, just PAY ATTENTION to how things come apart and don't lose the little springs in there. Do it ona counter top with a towel so things can't roll away. With that, probably not a great idea to take it apart unless it's a must.

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - a plea for help!
Post by Rotorhead on 07/24/18 at 14:11:51

Yeah watch the springs - once you get the cap apart, there isn't any retainer holding them in place, just the spring tension. I rebuilt mine (gas leaked when the tank was full) and as I was putting it back together SPROING and I was down a spring. Pretty easy to find a suitable spare but what was an easy 30 minute job turned into a trip to the hardware store.
-RH

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - a plea for help!
Post by batman on 07/24/18 at 19:52:59

10-15 min of idle ? is it a contest to see how long it will run before it over heats and dies? If you can't push the choke all the way in after 2-3 min and ride off, then you either have a fuel delivery problem ( petcock- inline fuel filter/unneeded- the filter above the float valve seat is plugged-float level needs resetting ) or your idle speed is set to low.

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - a plea for help!
Post by Dave on 07/25/18 at 05:22:50

0239382128302335510 wrote:

I took the carb out and cleaned the main and idle jets. this seemed to help the problem, but now it's extended out to 10-15 minutes of idle before it dies a slow death.

What Batman says......extended idle on an air cooled bike is a horrible way to treat your engine. If the bike is not moving - there is little or no air flow through the cooling fins.....and there is very little oil pressure at idle. Even worse may be that you are killing your exhaust cam lobe and rocker if the bike is leaned over on the sidestand.

In the 10,000 miles I have been riding my Savage - I don't believe it has idled in any one spot longer than a traffic light at a busy intersection. I put on my riding gear, get on the bike, start it an hold the throttle open to a fast idle of around 2,000 rpm to get the oil flowing - then after 30 seconds I ride off gently and allow the bike to warm up while I am riding. I never use full throttle until the bike is fully warmed up.

If your bike is dying when you roll off the throttle and pull in the clutch - then it is likely your idle speed is too low, or your idle fuel mixture is too lean, or both. You may have a vacuum leak somewhere - the petcock could also be to blame.

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - a plea for help!
Post by Shipyard on 08/01/18 at 19:49:13

Update:
I ditched the stock petcock, replaced with a raptor, capped the vacuum line.

I pulled the carb out of the bike, and went through it from top to bottom. I found a plug idle air jet. Replace that, cleaned everything else top to bottom inside and out and put it all back together. Replace all my Phillips head screws with socket head cap screws, awesome idea!

Solved my starting and idle problems. Bike fires up and idles like a top. However, when I put the bike into gear and go to ride, I have no acceleration. Even when I twist the throttle all the way open, it barely goes over the idle speed and I can only get up to about 35 miles an hour independent of which gear I have it in.

I Know just enough to be dangerous about carbs and with the manual and general guidance around here feel completely comfortable pulling it in and out and working on it, but I will be darned if I can figure out what is causing my new problem. :'(

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - new problem-carb
Post by stewmills on 08/01/18 at 20:18:05

Sounds suspiciously like the slide may be sticking. Did you make sure to clean the slide and not get goo or fingerprints on it? If it is either sticking or ripped and can’t pull a vacuum, there is a potential problem.

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - new problem-carb
Post by verslagen1 on 08/01/18 at 20:20:32

well at least you're making headway.

the needle jet may be clogged, it has little side ports.

or the slide is stuck down, which can be either fingerprints or the spring getting turned sideways when you installed it.

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - new problem-carb
Post by batman on 08/01/18 at 20:38:57

when you twist the throttle open it moves only the throttle plate, the slide opens and closes due to pressure/vacuum working on the rubber diaphragm in the top of the carb ,and this is the area you need to check. Did you disassemble the brass plate and needle jet when cleaning the carb?( did you do the spacer mod?) Is the slide hanging up? did you by mistake swap the air and main jets ?

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - new problem-carb
Post by Shipyard on 08/02/18 at 08:22:50

0102170E020D575B630 wrote:

Did not disassemble the needle jet/slide assy. couldn't get to the screws well enough to have confidence I wouldn't strip them and end up with a junk part. I wear gloves when working with gas, but in hindsight I didn't really clean or may much attention to the slide putting it back in.

excellent point to look at: what would you recommend to clean it with? obviously not carb cleaner ;D

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - new problem-carb
Post by LANCER on 08/02/18 at 08:48:32

Assuming everything you have done and checked is correct, when you removed and disassembled the carb to clean it, did you pay attention to every tiny passageway in the carb body ? They are often overlooked but the smallest piece of grit or sand or carbon can block them. Most of them control the pilot fuel circuit in one fashion or another. They need to be flushed with carb cleaner and blown out with compressed air. When doing so protect your face and if you question whether any of them did not pass the fuel cleaner and air correctly then do it again until it is. If that does not work then you need tiny wire to clean them out. There is a carb cleaning tool for doing this. It is essentially the same as the gas welding tip cleaners.
This can cause you lots of headaches.

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - new problem-carb
Post by norm92de on 08/02/18 at 09:14:40

I had the same symptoms after taking the top off my carb- in the frame.
Took it off again and very carefully replaced it. Worked like a charm.

I think I somehow got the slide spring cocked when I reassembled it. :'(

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - new problem-carb
Post by stewmills on 08/02/18 at 14:04:43

There used to be a really good carb animation that 'photosuckit' disabled. However, I found another decent video that is in this thread (see below).

Hope it helps envision what's going on in there...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1533243761/0#0

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - new problem-carb
Post by batman on 08/02/18 at 20:36:34

Gloves will protect your hands, but not the carb parts ,the outside of the slide and the cylinder it sides into must be very clean or the slide can hang up.( clean and avoid touching) Note that the rubber diaphragm goes in in only one location due to the little tongue on it and the matching recess in the carb body. There is also a rib of rubber around the outside edge of the diaphragm that should be pushed firmly into the recess for it ,before the spring and cap are replaced.

Title: Re: Bike starts but slowly dies - new problem-carb
Post by ohiomoto on 08/03/18 at 08:04:15

Agree with the slide. Happened to me once after jetting. Didn't seat the diaphragm correctly and it did the exact same thing. Butterfly opens and a limited amount of fuel gets pulled from the main jet because the needle doesn't raise to allow more fuel to enter the venturi. You end up with an extremely lean condition.

I also had a couple of incidents where my slide stuck during shifts and I lost power. The black coating on the slide what worn off in spots so I replaced the slide and it's been perfect. Best $120 I've spent on this bike. I think some people on here might have had the same issues, but confused it with a jetting issue.