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General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> The problem is epistemological, not idealogical.
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Message started by eau de sauvage on 07/19/18 at 16:10:48

Title: The problem is epistemological, not idealogical.
Post by eau de sauvage on 07/19/18 at 16:10:48

Who shaves the barber when the barber shaves everyone who doesn't shave themselves.

This article https://tinyurl.com/Double-Decker-Narcissism pretty well sums up why arguing with Trump of those like him who have no regard for reality is a total waste of time.

Title: Re: The problem is epistemological, not idealogica
Post by Ed L. on 07/19/18 at 16:36:12

The result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth and truth be defamed as a lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world—and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end---is being destroyed

Title: Re: The problem is epistemological, not idealogica
Post by Serowbot on 07/19/18 at 16:50:38

I nearly followed that... :-?

Title: Re: The problem is epistemological, not idealogica
Post by eau de sauvage on 07/19/18 at 17:23:46

@Serowbot,

This...

We will now have to choose between living in reality as expressed in objective reporting and shared fact, or whether we’re willing to accept that from now on, for many, many people, truth will be defined and constrained only by what the president wants to believe, in the moment he wants to believe it.

Basically it is the final sentence in the report, a comment on a 'shared reality', which is really the basis of sanity. Which I define as the degree to which objective and subjective reality coincide.

Title: Re: The problem is epistemological, not idealogica
Post by faffi on 07/20/18 at 00:05:51

Again, as the article point out, the reality will not make a single supporter of Trump change opinion, but will make many stronger in their support.

Title: Re: The problem is epistemological, not idealogica
Post by eau de sauvage on 07/20/18 at 03:31:02

3730373738510 wrote:

Again, as the article point out, the reality will not make a single supporter of Trump change opinion, but will make many stronger in their support.

I'm not sure what point you're making. I have no intention of trying to alter anyone's opinion, is someone wants to change they will. Nevertheless there's nothing wrong with dissecting and appreciating the current situation. It's all so bizarre and surreal that it has taken this long to fully digest.

Nevertheless if you think this is about Trump you're mistaken, it's much more about the GOP. They are the ones who are enabling this. Witness today that they crushed a motion to subpoena the translator in the Putin/Trump meeting. Which means no one, knows what was said. And that includes Trump because he did not take notes. It's utterly looney.

Title: Re: The problem is epistemological, not idealogica
Post by faffi on 07/20/18 at 06:27:16

You are probably correct in that the GOP has the real agenda. However, I doubt they are able to control Trump the way Bush jr. was controlled, whether that was by GOP or other interests. In fact, I doubt anybody, including Donald himself, can predict Trump's moves.

Title: Re: The problem is epistemological, not idealogica
Post by MnSpring on 07/20/18 at 09:12:52

67756162757371140 wrote:

"... I have no intention of trying to alter anyone's opinion, ..."

Really, That’s news.

eds, you say: “… I have no intention of trying to alter anyone’s opinion…”
So when you post your, Crud, Rude, Insolent, (and many time out and out lies), etc, about a President of another Country.
It is, ‘just’, for $hits and Grins ?

(Now, for the panty in a bunch people, ‘here’, is no Trump supporter, that is 100% +Trump)
Yet, ‘here’ their are several that are 110% Against Trump.

Title: Re: The problem is epistemological, not idealogica
Post by faffi on 07/20/18 at 14:12:19

73506D4E4C5750593E0 wrote:

[color=#0000ff]
Yet, ‘here’ their are several that are 110% Against Trump.

Which is not any better - he should be judged objectively about his results, good and bad. However, his repeated lies, half truths popularism tend to overshadow what he actually achieves.

If he had been more tactical and less narcissistic and less concerned about his core followers, I personally believe he could have achieve a lot more as well as had more overall support nationally as well as internationally. His die-hard followers would likely have thought less of him, but he could have appealed to a much broader section of the population on both the blue and red side.