SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Any ideas before piston rings /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1528323740 Message started by seve321 on 06/06/18 at 15:22:20

Title: Any ideas before piston rings Post by seve321 on 06/06/18 at 15:22:20 my bike is running super rough. It won't idle without the choke fully out. if the choke is not out it bogs down and dies. I did a valve adjustment and not help. I'm thinking that the piston rings are worn. the compression is 120. is there anything else I can try before attempting to change the rings.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by DragBikeMike on 06/06/18 at 18:57:37 The symptoms you describe are not compatible with worn piston rings.  Sounds to me like you have either a bad manifold vacuum leak or a plugged up pilot jet circuit.   Check for vacuum leaks by spraying down the intake manifold with carb cleaner with the engine idling.  If speed changes dramatically you found your leak.   Check the pilot jet circuit by tearing down the carb and visually inspecting the pilot jet and pilot passages for crud and blowing through the pilot circuit passages with carb cleaner.  Let us know what you find.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by Ruttly on 06/06/18 at 19:02:42 It's carb or petcock or vacuum problem. I highly doubt rings are the problem. Try a Yamaha Raptor petcock and plug off the vacuum line to it. Have you tried turning petcock to prime and then ride it to see if it goes away ?

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by verslagen1 on 06/06/18 at 19:03:41 Did you adjust the valves per instructions here or by Clymers? Clymers has you turn the crank the wrong way and you end up on the wrong TDC.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by seve321 on 06/06/18 at 19:46:04 ok, I appreciate the responses. I have the raptor petcock and the vacuum line is plugged. I used the write up for the valve adjustment on this forum. Now that it was mentioned I have had a lot of problems with the pilot jet backing out. I used Teflon tape to hold it in place. and it worked. but thinking about it I bet the gas broke it down it backed out again. I haven't checked it in a while.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by batman on 06/06/18 at 21:21:02 Your compression test has a lot of variables ,battery charge , if you held the throttle wide open , etc. With your result being 120psi I'd think your compression to be OK.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by seve321 on 06/07/18 at 05:50:20 when I tested the compression I tested on a cold and warmed motor, I just cracked the stater. I didn't mess with the throttle. and I know I have at least 12 volts on the battery but not sure on exact.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by Dave on 06/07/18 at 16:27:28 You have to hold the throttle open when doing the test - or the throttle plate will be restricting the amount of air that reaches the cylinder.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/07/18 at 16:39:00 How does that work? I thought it required manifold vacuum to lift the slide. I understand how a closed path through the carb isn't cool, but wouldn't it be better to pull the plumbing and lift the slide?

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by DragBikeMike on 06/07/18 at 17:42:24 The slide never really closes all the way.  If you look through the carb it stays about 1/4 open at rest. Also, it is not opened by manifold vacuum, it is opened by venturi vacuum which is a function of flow.  The butterfly valve is what controls the air flow.  The slide is used to keep the air velocity as close to constant as possible.  As long as you hold your throttle wide open and override the compression release while cranking you should get an accurate reading.  Your 120 psi seems OK to me.  It wouldn’t require you to keep the enricher on to keep the engine from dying.  The enricher is the dead giveaway.  You either have air leaking in or something preventing fuel from flowing through the low speed & intermediate circuits. The pilot jet actually has a tapered seat on the top of the jet.  That tapered seat mates with a tapered seat in the body of the carb. When you tighten it up the two tapers lock & seal together.  It should always tighten up and stay put.  Don’t ever put Teflon tape in there.  If it won’t tighten up or won’t stay tight you may have the wrong style jet.  Make sure it has a tapered seat at the top.  Do a Prussian blue check to verify that the two seats are making contact.  If the two seats don’t make good contact air will be drawn in at that point since it is above the fuel level, which will cause a lean condition.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/07/18 at 18:17:36 If I could only remember all the great things I get here.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by seve321 on 06/09/18 at 14:26:56 I cleaned the carb out and cleared the Jets to be sure. It started up and was able to idle without the choke this time. I took it for a little drive,  just around the parking lot. While riding I hear a clincking noise coming from the engine. It only happens when it's moving. Not at idle. Could this be an unsuccessful valve adjustment? I just did one prior to cleaning the carb.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/09/18 at 14:35:15 Well, What's happening in motion that ISN'T happening sitting still? Valves are doing the same thing all the time. The belt is not The output pulley isn't. I'd have a good look at the front pulley.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by batman on 06/10/18 at 01:10:01 I'm with JOG ! If that pulley is not tight it can do some real damage.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by seve321 on 06/10/18 at 15:12:57 jog was right it was the cover for the pully. it was loose

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by Tocsik on 06/13/18 at 07:30:17 Cool.  Are you all sorted out now?  Whatever happened with the pilot jet and DragBikeMikes comments about making sure you have the correct jet type?  It's concerning that it wouldn't stay tight.  Also concerning about the Teflon tape.  As it broke down from the fuel, it could have blocked off other small passages in the carb.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by seve321 on 06/14/18 at 10:27:13 The treads in the carb are bad. I can see the jet pivot side to side in the threads. I think this carb is done. and I'm confident that the carb is the source of all my headache.

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by batman on 06/14/18 at 11:28:05 You could try using JB weld on the threads of the jet,( maker claims it is not affected by gas).  I would notch the screwdriver blade in the center allowing you to place a wire ( soft copper ) in the jet 's opening to keep it open as you install it ,removing it just a few minutes later . Not being able to remove the jet for cleaning or replacement isn't ideal,but what have you got to lose, besides the price of another carb ?

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by seve321 on 06/17/18 at 08:04:53 I have another question. I've been doing this valve adjustment over and over but I'm not sure if I get it right. Once you have the white marker lined up with the notch you can can adjust the front and back valves (4 total valves) all together right? I don't have to turn it anymore for one side or the other right?

Title: Re: Any ideas before piston rings Post by verslagen1 on 06/17/18 at 10:34:12 once you find TDC on the compression stroke you don't have to move it again.

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