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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> New S40 Owner... many questions...
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Message started by drannonb on 04/24/18 at 15:59:44

Title: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by drannonb on 04/24/18 at 15:59:44

Hey guys,

I bought a used 2013 S40 about two months ago with just under 1K miles (it's my second bike, I've also got a 2015 CB500F) and it's the first vehicle I've ever owned with an old-school carburetor and air cooled engine. I've spent some time before buying and since owning the bike on these forums, but it's almost summer and I want to get serious about her very soon :)

Anyway, I really love this bike (and my girlfriend does too) but just like everybody else, I am just not happy with the stock muffler sound. I've read over the Dyna thread several times but none of the images will show up anymore so I'm not sure what I'm looking for on ebay to purchase. I really don't want to do too many mods to it, but the exhaust (and I'm guessing a rejet) is a must.

I'm not afraid of using tools or getting my hands dirty, but I also want to find the simplest, least time consuming method to attack this with. I'm not super worried about backfires or anything like that, I just want it to run well and I don't want it to sound like a scooter anymore!

Also, the previous owner did not have the manual (WTF?) so I'm wondering if I should pony up for that or just buy a service manual and skip it all together.

Any pointers in the right direction would just make my day! Thanks in advance! Also, sorry if I missed some very obvious posts, but I swear I looked!

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by drannonb on 04/24/18 at 16:01:34

Basic info, there's about 1400 miles on her now. I live outside of Dallas so our summers are hot and humid, and our elevation is rather low. As of right now she starts and runs great so no issues there.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by Dave on 04/24/18 at 17:02:41

Don't bother with an owners manual.....buy a Clymers manual.

The muffler job is easy if you buy a RYCA adapter.....other methods are more labor intensive.

You are looking for a Harley DYNA muffler. I prefer them without a catalytic converter......and you have to make sure that folks haven't drilled or knocked out the center plug to make it louder.

You "DON'T" want to buy mufflers that have the cross tube....like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-FXD-1450-DYNA-Used-Original-Right-Left-Exhaust-Muffler-Set-2000/111532789779?hash=item19f7df5013:g:080AAOSwofxUeRA~&vxp=mtr

These would work:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Harley-Davidson-Dyna-Mufflers-FXD-FXDB-FXDL-FXDC-FXDXG-1995-2005-Exhaust/323219958651?fits=Model%3ADyna&hash=item4b41692b7b:g:tpQAAOSw6aJa1WBv&vxp=mtr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-harley-davidson-dyna-low-rider-fxdl-Mufflers/292528595749?hash=item441c102325:g:L5QAAOSwUchaDP0m&vxp=mtr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Harley-Davidson-Stock-2005-Dyna-Mufflers-Removed-After-Purchase/372285609308?hash=item56adf3955c:g:ujUAAOSwPhpaymCc&vxp=mtr

I don't know what year came with the catalytic converter....I suspect California may have got them sooner than other states.

You can search and find some cheaper.....I just set my filter for $5 - $100 and did a quick search. You can email the seller to find out if the baffles are intact and if the wording states the catalyst is in the muffler (or he can look inside the inlet and see if there is a bunch of tiny holes just inside the front of the muffler....or one big hole).

If you get a nice set....you can easily sell the extra one on this forum.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by Rotorhead on 04/24/18 at 17:59:21

I found a softtail muffler locally with all the guts still in it. Wasn't a direct bolt on like the dynas are, but I made a bracket with some steel stock and a hand drill, and it fit up pretty well. I had the ten degree offset adapter already-it fit without it but it was real close to the swing arm.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by eau de sauvage on 04/24/18 at 18:38:04

I agree with using an adapter with about a 6 degree bend. I got one made and fitted at the local muffler shop. Still able to use a single bolt on the dyna rail which is enough. The straps on the muffler are because this particular dyna came with factory heat shield.

I have a stock air filter, I put a 20 pilot on and adjusted the needle clip, but I ended up putting the needle clip back to stock because it was running too rich. I'm at sea level in a warm spot. Also when I got the bike simply adjusting the air/fuel mix screw made the bike run noticeably better.

http://https://s31.postimg.cc/t1448g9nr/IMG_1561.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/t1448g9nr/)

http://https://s31.postimg.cc/4klydzgmv/IMG_1562.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/4klydzgmv/)

http://https://s31.postimg.cc/tdvien7d3/IMG_1563.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/tdvien7d3/)

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by verslagen1 on 04/24/18 at 19:07:27

You can get a copy of the owners manual in the tech section (see link below)

well be in Kerrville next month, come ride with us.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1520439918

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by drannonb on 04/25/18 at 11:25:46

Dave: Thanks for all the info, and especially the links! Made an offer on the first listing, we'll see how that goes. There's a local motorcycle parts store in my town too, I think I'll go check out what they've got as well.

In the mean time I'll be removing the cover from the air/fuel screw and toying around with that a bit.

eau de sauvage: I'll definitely check out the adapter.

verslagen1: Man I would love to ride out to Kerrville! Have lots of friends who go out there every year to party! I'll definitely let you know if I ride out! Thanks for the tip on the manual BTW.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by batman on 04/25/18 at 19:42:26

In the mean time I'll be removing the cover from the air/fuel screw and toying around with that a bit.

You don't need to "toy " with it, you need to back the idle down as low as it will go without the bike stalling ( after the motor gets up to temperature ) and adjust the fuel mix screw to you obtain the fastest idle , then reset the idle speed back to 1000+ rpm .

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by eau de sauvage on 04/25/18 at 19:47:53

at the risk of disagreeing with the far more knowledgeable than I, Batman, I'd suggest 1200 to be a more appropriate final idle setting for this bike. It easily stalls at very low rpms.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by batman on 04/26/18 at 09:16:16

EDS ,that's why there is a plus sign after the 1000 rpm , I meant it to be understood that it was the lowest setting I'd advise , enough to supply oil to the top end.(hopefully) but each bike is different and I agree , some may require a higher idle for better ,smoother ,running.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by norm92de on 04/26/18 at 10:44:15

Regarding the idle setting. My bike is set at around 1800 RPM and it doesn't sound fast at all. (I do have a Tach) I'm not sure if this is why I very rarely get a backfire on gear changes, 1100 RPM sounds a bit slow to my ear and I'm sure it is not too slow but 1800 certainly doesn't sound fast. Our problem with cam lubrication is reason enough for me.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/18 at 11:58:22

How fast does it go in first gear just letting the idle speed be the throttle?
15?

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by norm92de on 04/26/18 at 13:42:00

Justin, I will have to check. It is very hilly where I live so will have find a flat piece of road.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by drannonb on 04/26/18 at 14:25:00

76756079757A202C140 wrote:

You don't need to "toy " with it, you need to back the idle down as low as it will go without the bike stalling ( after the motor gets up to temperature ) and adjust the fuel mix screw to you obtain the fastest idle , then reset the idle speed back to 1000+ rpm .

So I've never done what you're describing here. Let me see if I understand. I turn the idle speed screw down until just before the engine stalls out, and then turn the fuel mix screw counterclockwise(?) until... what exactly? Will the engine rev up? What am I looking/listening for exactly? Still a little confused as to what will actually happen when I do that...

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/18 at 15:11:16

It's not even almost something anyone would know, so, relax and work through it.

adjust the fuel mix screw to you obtain the fastest idle , then reset the idle speed back to 1000+ rpm .

Turn it slowly and if you screw it in Tight you can screw up the brass tip.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by norm92de on 04/26/18 at 15:16:49

All you have to do is adjust the idle as low as it will go. Then turn the idle mixture screw in or out to find the highest speed, this will be the best mixture for idling. Usually the engine will try to die as the screw is turned in, turning it out will increase the idle speed up to a certain point. If you end up turning the screw out more than about 3 turns you probably need a larger pilot jet to get it set to optimum. (he ideal number of turns out is 2) Then reset the idle to not less than 1100-1200 RPM.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by IslandRoad on 04/27/18 at 03:24:54

Tune it to the point, if you rev it in neutral, and then drop the throttle, it almost cuts out. Mine is set to nearly 1400 rpm. That works for my elevation, and atmospheric conditions. You just don't want it cutting out if you pull up hard in traffic.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by Dave on 04/27/18 at 04:18:09

3A2C3F303031303C5E0 wrote:

You are listening for the "tone" and speed of the idle. Turn the speed way down.....around 800 rpm. Then move the screw in and listen to the speed - as the screw goes in the engine should begin slowing down and it may even stall. (If you can turn the screw all the way in and the engine still runs smoothly - your pilot jet is too big). Then turn the screw out and the speed should increase, and at some point the engine should sound "fat".....the sound of an rich mixture is just a bit less different - the engine may begin to slow down. (If the screw goes out more than 2.5 turns without sounding fat.....the pilot jet is too small). The ideal mixture is somewhere between the lean and rich positions and should provide a smooth/even idle. If you find the bike pops and bangs excessively and makes a loud bang when you turn it off....you can try opening the screw another 1/4 turn and see if it helps - but don't open it much more than that or the bike will run too rich.

Then.....adjust the idle speed back up to 1,100 - 1,200 rpm - high enough to keep good oil pressure at idle and prevent the bike from stalling when you close the throttle quickly.

These videos may help.....the Savage has a "fuel" mixture screw and turning it out makes the mixture richer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpQjDQzX7g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm5mB3R8Ucw

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by elricfate on 05/04/18 at 06:11:21

So just out of curiosity, you all keep giving the same advice, and that's great that means a consensus. My question is what is your starting point for the air screw?

You keep mentioning turning down the idle, well what if someone already mucked with the air screw... where should it be before you start adjusting idle? Because as you all have mentioned, mucking with the air screw also mucks with the idle.

Or does it not matter at all?

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by Dave on 05/04/18 at 06:18:54

On any carb.....I always use 1.5 turns out from lightly seated as my starting point for carb adjustments.

Mikuni claims that when doing the carb adjustment.......if you have to turn the screw out more than 2 turns to get a smooth idle - you need a larger pilot jet. If the screw is out less than 1.5 turns to get a smooth idle.....you need a smaller pilot jet.

There may be a bit more leeway than that for our mildly tuned street bike - however you should never turn the screw out more than 3 turns as the tapered portion of the needle is out so far that additional turns won't make any difference....and you need a larger pilot jet - and it you can turn the screw all the way in and the engine still runs....your pilot jet is definitely too big and you need a smaller pilot jet.

Title: Re: New S40 Owner... many questions...
Post by elricfate on 05/04/18 at 06:58:36

6D565B4C5D514A4C575F524D3E0 wrote:

On any carb.....I always use 1.5 turns out from lightly seated as my starting point for carb adjustments.

Perfect, thank you. I just bought a bike and it's had a lot done to it... a lot of the stuff listed here, in fact. I still can't identify the carb, but it's definitely already had the air box deleted and whatnot. I just wanted to know what my starting point was because I wanted to learn. :)