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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from airbox
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Message started by PerroVivo on 04/12/18 at 10:18:32

Title: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from airbox
Post by PerroVivo on 04/12/18 at 10:18:32

Hello,

Hope to get some suggestions on my next steps for troubleshooting.

Here is the story:
Bike was running just fine, the bike started and ran for about 1 block then for no obvious reason it just lost power and stalled.
Now, the bike does starts, but struggles to stay on... after the bike stalls, there seems to be white smoke/fume that comes out of the air box.

The following is what I done to find the issue:
- I made sure the valves are to spec, by putting it on TDC and adjust valves clearance to .5
-Took the top of the case off to check on the chain and timing... I looks fine.
-Compression test was in the low 100.
-Pull carbs apart and clean all components.
-New carb diagram… replace awhile a go.
-Petcock is a brass fitting, open and flows with no problem.
-Tried 2 different spark plugs.
-There is no apparent oil leak.

I recently simplify the starting wiring system, in the process I put in some new staff (new solenoid, new coil, new spark plug, new(used) CDI, new pickup coil, new stator, new negative wire to case)

Any Suggestions on what my next step may be troubleshooting wise?

I will try to take a video later today, greatly appreciate any suggestions.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by buster6315 on 04/12/18 at 11:20:40

Gosh, lots of repairs! Was the old CDI defective? My guess is something in the ignition. Best to change one thing at a time.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by verslagen1 on 04/12/18 at 11:37:11

645146465B425D425B020202340 wrote:

Bike was running just fine, the bike started and ran for about 1 block then for no obvious reason it just lost power and stalled.
Now, the bike does starts, but struggles to stay on... after the bike stalls, there seems to be white smoke/fume that comes out of the air box.

Have you drained the airbox?

Quote:

white smoke/fume that comes out of the air box.

Usually a sign of too low of an idle speed or bad valve adjustment or sticking valve.

Sudden stalling, I would check the safeties, clutch, kickstand and neutral. A bad connection here can shut it off in an instant.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by PerroVivo on 04/12/18 at 12:00:13

Yup, No doubt lots of time and $ has gone to this machine.

No, the old CDI was/is fine...

No safeties... remove clutch, kickstand and neutral.
I will take a look at draining the airbox, it looked pretty dry when open it, but not a bad suggestion (on that note, the filter is a fairly new K&N)

Need to look at the sticking valve suggestion too.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by batman on 04/12/18 at 16:51:54

"took the top of the case off to check the chain and timing " ???? do you mean the right side case? ( you could check the timing by looking at the line on the cam gear, but you need to check the chain and tensioner by removing the right side case.) Were all the components you changed in the electrical system, stock Suzuki? Can you supply a drawing of your present wiring system? Your compression seems low for a stock bike ,did you use an after market cam? Is the carb stock ? What size jets are you running?

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by PerroVivo on 04/12/18 at 17:35:29

Thanks for the reply...

Main jet is a 152.5, open pipe exhaust... Air mix turn about 2 turns out, when it was working.

Took the top case off to check the upper gear and chain mark was aligned with the mark on cam gear, was thinking maybe it was out of alignment or something, also wanted to check on the condition of the plug that tends to fail and leak.
Tensioner was changed for stock tensioner about 3k miles ago.

The cam is stock, same with the carburetor.

Besides the CDI the components for the electrical are not stock, but they all do match specs outlined by the manufacturer...

I did look into draining the airbox, and did it, also checked the compression one more time and it's at 120.

The sparkplug, was a bit black when I took it out after commencing the troubleshooting process.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by batman on 04/13/18 at 12:00:13

Your wiring diagram doesn't make sense. What supplies power to the starter switch and the coil and TDI ?(missing wire) what does the key shut off besides the regulator? How does the regulator monitor the battery voltage so it knows when to shed power to ground?(missing wire) You need to do a bit of research. and I'd only use a stock TDI and Coil as they are designed to work together and changing either could cause damage. You might look in the Tech Section and find a better working diagram. It should include the kill switch as this is one switch that should NEVER be bypassed.(if you go down and the key brakes off you have no way to shut off the bike)

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by PerroVivo on 04/13/18 at 13:16:22

The wiring diagram is functional, the bike ran for a long time with no problems, I can see why it does not make sense to you, as it is not a typical diagram... I did look at the Tech section and the one diagram I share was inspire by the info in that section and some help from verslagen1 who point out some real issues with the original diagram I share on the forum, the 2 wires you mention as missing are not really missing, that been said the bike is lighter about 3 pounds of wires and safeties... Lighting circuit is not included in this diagram.

- I will look at the TDI and Coil suggestion... you may have something there... I end up using the stock ignition coil since the one I purchase has a very long cable... The pick up coil is not stock, I agree with you that it may be part of the problem since it needs a precise numeric value to make the spark go, I was planning on testing it tomorrow either way.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/18 at 13:34:14

It's common to say CDI which stands for capacitor discharge Ignition
TCI is what we have, Transistor Controlled Ignition.

I believe what the diagram should be...

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by batman on 04/13/18 at 14:32:58

Vercy ,your diagram looks much better , but there 's six connections on the regulator/rectifier, not five, the output is shown, I believe the missing wire runs from the pos. going to the ignition switch and from the battery pos. back to the regulator to signal it to shed power when the battery is fully charged, when the bike doesn't require the full output of the alternator it could burn out lights and might damage the TDI , Without it you'll end up over charging and cook the battery.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/18 at 15:05:18

6566736A6669333F070 wrote:

Most modern reg/rec combine the 5th and 6th wire.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by batman on 04/13/18 at 15:24:36

It does seem a shame that that doesn't seem to be the case ,at least not from 87 to 2001 any away, I cant vouch for newer bikes.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/18 at 15:32:03

I think only the 88 I have had all 6 wires.
the 96 01 and 02 all had 5.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by batman on 04/13/18 at 15:38:09

I just looked at the Ron Ayers Site and it's showing six wires and the same stock number from 1986 up to 2017. mine is a 95 with six, stock #32800-24b11

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by batman on 04/13/18 at 16:14:46

If your going to vote in the poll, don't guess, pull your seat and look. If there isn't six wires ,send me a crow to eat (cooked well done). :)

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by PerroVivo on 04/14/18 at 10:13:25

My rectifier has 5 wires... 2002 ls650

Tested the pick up coils and are reading 0 resistance... Going to investigate further on that item.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by batman on 04/14/18 at 17:36:19

If your rectifier has 5 wires it's not stock. but it could work if the circuit I referred to is internal . I think rewiring the bike would have been enough of a job to begin with ,but changing from the stock components was your downfall, the fact that their mismatched leads to damage (like your pickup coil).

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by verslagen1 on 04/14/18 at 19:53:45

4241544D414E1418200 wrote:

That's just BS batty, blaming an issue with a pickup coil on the rectifier?

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by PerroVivo on 04/14/18 at 22:40:46

The pick up coil is not damage, the connection was weak... Now fix.

Thanks for the suggestions and constructive criticism.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by batman on 04/15/18 at 08:07:00

Vercy, I wasn't blaming it on the rectifier ,but possible damage from installing a CDI rather than the stock TDI . Changing or interchanging components is not recommended ,it unbalances the system and can cause damage, Why he changed from stock ,is unclear . what was he hoping to gain? A poll really? It pains me to think you can't count to six!( check ANY wiring diagram LS 650 -S40 )

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by PerroVivo on 04/15/18 at 11:15:12

I didn't create the poll... I guess is a different model than yours, the rectifier has only 5 wires, what can I tell you?

I misspoke when I call it CDI, in fact it's a stock TDI I purchased online matching the part number on the original.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by Dave on 04/15/18 at 12:25:33

I looked at the rectifiers I have, the 2002 project bike has 5 wires, my 2007 Cafe' has 5 wires, and the 2 rectifiers I got with engines I bought from abandoned project bikes are both 5 wires......I believe those bikes are 1991 & 1995.

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by batman on 04/15/18 at 20:30:26

OK ! I was wrong,( well half wrong) I've found out that there are two kinds of regulator/rectifiers 5 and 6 wire, depending on model of the bike . Both have 3 yellows, one red, one black ,and some have an added orange/brown wire(mine) the latest stock number listed is 32800-24 B11 but I haven't seen a pic. to determine which it may be. The wiring diagrams I've seen ,even the one in the Tech section ,shows a 6 wire and that is from a 2009 bike, very confusing! Dave you said you have a 5 wire from a 95 ,I have a six wire on a 95 (P), was you bike a CA model, or other than a P ?

Title: Re: Rough start, stalls, white smoke/fume from air
Post by Dave on 04/16/18 at 03:46:44

Batman:

The 95 engine I have came as a parts engine, and it included some wiring harness, carb, header. I bought it from a fellow that had an old Royal Enfield with a worn out motor....he was going to put the Savage motor in the Royal Enfield, then changed jobs and had to move and sold things off. The carb doesn't have the CA spigot on it....so I believe it is not from CA (I am guessing the year is 95 from the serial number - but the year may be off a bit.