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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Front End Fear
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Message started by hotrod on 04/06/18 at 09:25:27

Title: Front End Fear
Post by hotrod on 04/06/18 at 09:25:27

Went for a ride today and it was pretty windy . The wind would catch the front end and push the bike around like crazy. I felt I could lose control at any moment, having to move around like a monkey, and counter steering at times. Wind will have a effect on any bike, but I never felt it this bad. Going from a Harley 48, with a fat front tire, to the Savage was a big difference . Everything is stock and in good condition and I have the front fender on. Is there anything I can do to improve this ? I don't want to have to plan a trip based on wind.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by verslagen1 on 04/06/18 at 09:43:08

I get some good gusts and it does play with me from time to time.
I think it's steering geometry and a spoked wheel.
Also a windshield will affect how you sense it.

With my original windshield, I would feel my body being pulled into the wind naturally countering the gust.
My current fly shields don't do that.

Gusts up to 30 mph don't bother me. I can keep to my track.
I can remember driving a VW van during 1 wind storm, that thing was all over the road and it was a 6 lane freeway. I turned around and went home.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by hotrod on 04/06/18 at 10:12:09

Forgot to say that I'm also using 1 inch longer rear shocks.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/06/18 at 10:33:52

There's nothing to fear here. Yes, wind will move a light bike across a lane. Be prepared;

- If the wind is blowing from your left, bias your position in the lane to the left so you have room to move to the right.

- Keep a loose grip on the bars, a white-knuckled death grip never helps with handling and it makes for sore shoulders and an uncomfortable rider. A loose rider is a rider that is agile and able to react.

- A tall wind screen is like a sail on a boat, especially in high wind situations. If you have one, remove it for the day.

- Here's the big one...don't over think it. If you can't help yourself, don't ride that day.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by Tocsik on 04/07/18 at 08:48:48

Any chance you have a tool or roll bag strapped on the front end somewhere? Others have reported odd steering problems with that setup.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by Serowbot on 04/07/18 at 08:57:39

Nothing wrong with the bike,.. it's just fairly light.
Those taller rear shocks should actually help a little by transferring more weight to the front.

You might try relaxing your grip... sometimes the wind buffeting your shoulders will make you pull on the steering in a gust,... and then overcorrect... amplifying the wallows.
JMHO...

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by Fast 650 on 04/07/18 at 09:08:52

6E474B4B435417260 wrote:

Wind will have a effect on any bike, but I never felt it this bad. Going from a Harley 48, with a fat front tire, to the Savage was a big difference.

That is a telling statement. You are used to a heavier bike,. The Savage is lighter and has a shorter wheelbase so you are feeling the effect of wind more than with the Harley. Plus you are using taller shocks which reduced rake and trail slightly making steering feel more responsive so that amplifies the effect. If there are no problems with your bike, give it a little time and you will get used to how it feels on windy days.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by DieselBob on 04/07/18 at 10:47:35

-
"- Keep a loose grip on the bars, a white-knuckled death grip never helps with handling and it makes for sore shoulders and an uncomfortable rider. A loose rider is a rider that is agile and able to react."
"You might try relaxing your grip... sometimes the wind buffeting your shoulders will make you pull on the steering in a gust,... and then overcorrect... amplifying the wallows.
JMHO... "

As a kid I pushed through a front south of Minneapolis in an old freighter with no oxygen down at the treetops, throttles to the stops, losing altitude by the minute and with knuckles bright white. Finally my old WWII bomber co-pilot said "I got it kid" much to my relief. He pulled the throttles back, dialed in some trim and hardly touched the controls. As with bikes, a great lesson in white knuckled over-control.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by hotrod on 04/07/18 at 11:03:32

Thanks for all the suggestions given. No bags or windshield on the front. Looks like the only adjustment I can make is from the neck up.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/07/18 at 14:38:51

If you'll relax the front end will blow out from under you and counter steer you back onto your line.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by Dave on 04/08/18 at 03:55:59

Hotrod:

Are you a relatively new rider - first time in strong wind?

Most bikes will self correct when blown around, and you really have to do nothing......and tensing up on the bars/grips doesn't allow the bike to self correct.

Similar thing happens on some bridges with metal grating. The front tire wanders around on the grates, and you just have to let it happen and not try to fight it. (It is scary the first time you encounter it).

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by Armen on 04/08/18 at 05:47:42

Check the steering head bearings. Loose ones will make the bike a lot more exciting.
Longer rear shocks means the front end is tightened up. Good news is that the bike will steer quicker. Bad news is that the bike will steer quicker. Clapped out fork springs make the problem worse.
What tire pressures are you running on which tires?
How much does the front end sag when you sit on the bike?

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by hotrod on 04/08/18 at 08:47:58

Steering bearings are about 4 months old. Sag is almost 1 inch. Using 10 wt. oil. Tire pressure is 30 front, 32 rear.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/08/18 at 09:14:41

Sit on it
Grab front brake
Push
Pull
Feel a click?

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/08/18 at 10:39:19

1 inch of sag suggests that the spring rate is too high or that the preload needs to be adjusted. You should see over 1-1/2 of race sag. What is the static sag (the amount of sag with you off the bike?) Are they the original springs? Also, 10wt oil will not provide enough compression damping on an unmodified damping rod.

Tell me about your fork work.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by batman on 04/08/18 at 11:12:51

Handle bars that make your torso lean forward over the tank and the longer shocks shift weight forward and may help,if all else fails its better just to ride a bit slower ,shave 5-10 mph of your speed .

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by hotrod on 04/08/18 at 14:07:13

I have low bars on it, stock springs. I'm 190 lbs. Tires are old, but will soon be replaced . I had about 2 in. of sag and replaced the fork spacers for ones a little longer, getting to about 1 in. I will try re-adjusting the sag and move up to a thicker oil.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/08/18 at 17:26:53

052C2020283F7C4D0 wrote:
I had about 2 in. of sag and replaced the fork spacers for ones a little longer, getting to about 1 in. I will try re-adjusting the sag and move up to a thicker oil.

It's a 1:1 relationship, so remove 0.50" from the spacer and you should be good to go. Make sure that you have about 3/8" of static sag when you're done. The 15wt oil with a 100mm (4in) air gap should do the trick. The factory spec is a 75mm air gap, but that is too much oil and stiffens the fork travel, eliminating the last inch of usable travel.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by hotrod on 04/08/18 at 20:28:29

I'll do that. Thank you.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by KY Bluegrass on 04/14/18 at 09:20:07

Did a 100 mile ride two days ago with another rider on a Harley. We had up to 40 mph gusts. For the most part it was not scary, but rather tiring. I did envy his extra 200 lbs. Turbulence from trucks coming the other way was bad when coupled with the crosswinds. Fortunately we were mostly on country roads without much oncoming traffic.

I did find that relaxing my grip a little helped. This is my first bike in 40 years, so I have nothing else to compare it to.

I will say this, I got up this morning and my thighs and gluts were *very* sore. My knees were really hugging that tank. LOL.

Title: Re: Front End Fear
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/14/18 at 10:50:45

Gusts you can't anticipate.
Oncoming trucks, you can prepare for.
I move away from the centerline and just before I hit his blast, I start toward the centerline. And let it straighten me out.