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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Re: stroker crank /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1515623001 Message started by verslagen1 on 01/10/18 at 14:32:28 |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/18 at 14:32:28 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1120506946 |
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Title: Stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/10/18 at 16:57:18 Would anyone in hear be intrested in a stroker crank if i had them made for a ls650 ? :) |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Armen on 01/10/18 at 19:08:42 Maybe. Depends on the details. Like, what stroke and how much $? thanks, -Armen |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 02:25:04 142738303B550 wrote:
OK I am talking to my buddy and once I buy another motor I'm going to take it apart and ship the crank in cases to him and he will find out how far he can stroke it or if we can build a Billet crank but usually they're about $800 for a welded up crank but don't hold me to it |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Dave on 01/11/18 at 03:23:08 Why do you believe this engine will benefit from a longer stroke...isn't the piston speed already pretty high with the 94mm stroke? What are you going to modify to allow for the longer stroke and keep the piston from hitting the head, crank or counterbalance shaft? |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/11/18 at 05:52:58 Excellent, a solution for where there isn't a problem. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 07:43:31 4A717C6B7A766D6B7078756A190 wrote:
When you build a stroker you also use a costume rode and piston it would be a package deal like a kit and know the Pistons beating speed isn't too fast this bike only revs to Seven Grand I have done way bigger strokes and revèd them to 13000rpm and one of the benefits is there's no replacement for displacement I don't know what all the benefits will be yet but once I build one and Dyno I know it I will find out the benefits it will be a fun project |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 07:53:45 444E4A404B42464F111713230 wrote:
It's called performance it's fun to do always trying to make more power and torque and make it still streetable and run for a hundred thousand miles. I love to make horsepower and torque because horsepower is a calculation of torque |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/11/18 at 08:14:39 I love your love for torque, but as Dave pointed out, as stroke increases so does piston speed. Another issues include rod angularity, the acceleration/deceleration forces on the wrist pin, mid-stroke balance, primary and secondary shaking force. I don't believe that the LS650 motor is under stroked. In fact, it has evolved from a 400cc engine where they increased stroke and bore to achieve a capacity of 650cc. There is opportunity (as proven) to increase the bore and compression ratio. The stoke is a more involved change and may not yield results that justify the efforts. But by all means, have at it and keep us informed. Be prepared to go through several engines in the process of testing. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by verslagen1 on 01/11/18 at 08:52:01 We've already identified the exhaust and intake ports as deficient in design for peak performance. You'll do far more by modifying the head for performance than stroking it. The DR650 head design has been identified as better. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 09:11:34 060C08020900040D535551610 wrote:
This isn't my first engine build or engine modification I could have stayed stuck on my ZX14 which made 194 horse with a pipe but no I decided to put a turbo and nitrous on it and makeover 660 horse I've Done big stroker kits and all kinds Motors drag cars street cars motorcycles even Raptors I've got 12 mm over Strokes in them I know what is all entailed in doing the motor |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 09:27:07 203324253A3731333867560 wrote:
Your sorta right. But if you have 42.389671757199444ci but if you port the head an run hi compression you will get good power but I'd you add more cubic inches 45.09539548638239 to the motor you will make even more power even though the head cant be modified anymore Remember there is no replacement for displacement |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/11/18 at 09:30:31 Awesome. Yawn. I think you've missed the point of the Savage. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by verslagen1 on 01/11/18 at 09:52:07 6C616E6365723237000 wrote:
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/11/18 at 10:01:58 I don't know ,while a longer stroke will increase torque , we have decent torque ,it's horsepower that's in short supply, and the biggest bang for the buck is higher compression and a better cam and we've already increased displacement with larger pistons . this has been done , where as the use of blowers and stroking may cause overheating problems , the estimated price you cite and the fact that installing would demand total disassembly of the motor doesn't "get my motor running" ,but good luck! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 14:30:52 ::) 7B687F7E616C6A68633C0D0 wrote:
[/quote] I was wondering that this is good information to know maybe we can get some costume cams made from blank stock and maybe even find or get stronger springs made |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 14:38:32 262C28222920242D737571410 wrote:
Lol why you tired are you too old to follow this the point of motorcycles just to have fun and everybody enjoys it whether you like stock like my father who is on here do people like me they like to go modified and find out what you can get out of stuff I get a lot of drive from modifying stuff to find out how far I can take the motors it looks like there's other machines some stuff on here that like to modify stuff and it's fun it's called tinkering everybody's got their thing that they do and everybody's good at the thing that they do my fingers making bigger cubic inches of the motors and making a lot of horsepower and torque and making a Billet head in out of the question either for this bike then you would get a shitload more horsepower but all of this if it's too much for you to follow you might want to take a nap before you read it ;) |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 14:47:06 ::) 3536233A3639636F570 wrote:
Here let me give you an example I did 1 Busa 1300 motor with a 3mm over bore and I did 1 Busa motor with a 6 mm stroke and the one with the 3 mm bore runs hotter than the one with just the 6 mm stroke in stock bore plus some of that has to do with fueling to and Howleen you're running them trying to get all the extra power out of them you can run them a little fat lose a little bit of power and they'll run cooler or if they're carbureted you can go to E85 which is like alcohol as in alcohol methanol where he 85 is alcohol drinking alcohol and you can run that and it run a lot cooler because when it comes out of a carburetor it runs down the intake and it cools as it goes in but I'm going to play with this motor and see what I can get out of it just remember torque equals horsepower horsepower is a calculation of torque no matter what even with a bigger Stroke motor you will gain more horsepower. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Armen on 01/11/18 at 18:43:08 Sounds like fun. IIRC, both Falicon and Powroll used to offer stroking of your crank. Doubt they do that any more. Doubt you could do a billet crank. That would mean a split, plain bearing rod, which requires a lot more oil pressure than the Savage probably has. Keep us posted! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 19:52:29 4E7D626A610F0 wrote:
Few modifications to the oil pump you can get the pressure up on it otherwise turn it into a dry-sump it's all stuff I'm going to look into buddy of mine is like majority of the stroker cranks in the United States and from other countries Dubai and everything we'll see funds are a little short right now I need to get a whole complete motor so I can tear down and start sending these parts up to get them all scan and copy so if you got a motor to donate let me know ;D |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 19:56:35 More of a Billet it pain |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/11/18 at 21:23:27 torque =horsepower? only at 5252 rpm. looking at ANY dino chart will show you that. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/11/18 at 22:11:11 696A7F666A653F330B0 wrote:
Lol I used to have to diagnose a Mustang dyno to Dynojet dyno in horsepower is a calculation of torque |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/11/18 at 22:37:18 I hope your calculations where better than what you stated for the displacement of the Savage motor which is 39.8 cu.in not 42.389671757199444. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/12/18 at 03:23:29 3F3C29303C3369655D0 wrote:
I was talking with the 97mm piston ::) |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by badwolf on 01/12/18 at 06:11:41 While it is certainly possible to get more power out of our engines, bore, stroke, major head work, exhaust pipe mods, carb mods, turbo, nitris, you will run into other issues on a bike built for half the power you may get. The clutch comes to mind for starters. Doing a project like that requires major resources, time, money, mechanical ability, money, engineering, money, oh yea did I mention MONEY? Drag racers never ask how fast you want to go, they ask how fast you can AFFORD to go - CUBIC DOLLARS! Someone who has big dreams, and asks for a donated engine to get started, is doing just that - DREAMING! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/12/18 at 13:11:40 4547544A54564E474F54260 wrote:
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/12/18 at 13:26:05 The bottom line is the Savage is a poor subject for doing the kind of mods your talking about, and what is the point of trying to produce 50 hp anyway? Are you going to ride it at 100+ mph ? Save the hassle ,Sell it to someone who won't spend stupid money to abuse it, and buy a different bike. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by ohiomoto on 01/14/18 at 07:11:54 People buy Savages with plans to do all kinds of things with it. We mod the crap out of them trying to turn them into things they are not. We change the style, the looks, the way they fit. Some want bigger tanks, some want taller seats, some want bigger pistons and some even boost them. Some want cafe racers, street trackers, scramblers, bobbers, choppers, board trackers... There are even a few that are happy to leave it alone. I'm not one to piss on someones parade. If you really want a more powerful bike, there are much better options to start with. But, if you want to have fun trying to make more power from this bike, more power to you. Have at it and thanks for sharing along the way. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by buster6315 on 01/14/18 at 09:17:56 But does it |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/14/18 at 23:49:33 Well I guess I won't be following him to close ,He claims that he took a Busa from 194 hp to 660 hp ,3.4 times as much power as stock! I guess I know when I'm hearing pure B.S. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/15/18 at 00:39:50 S0 you had a unicycle ? doesn't sound good to me ,think I'll pass! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/15/18 at 10:53:24 I just think we're two very different types of people ,I just want to ride and enjoy the world a pace the Savage can do and still remain reliable ,and you want to see it in a 200mph blur. so be it! Good Luck! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Dave on 01/15/18 at 11:15:33 I am a fan of the 50-60 mph fuzzy blur - as long as there are a lot of really tight corners......with a very short straight between them. I am fine with a good running 40 HP Savage and I have done fairly simple mods to get in the ballpark - I don't need or want a 100 HP hand grenade motor.....and I really don't care to put the bike on a dyno to find out exactly how many HP it has. So far I have 10,000 trouble free miles with a Wiseco, cam, head port and carb swap....and a recently added lightened flywheel. On the back roads I ride I am very often scrubbing off tread in the corners and generally less than half throttle - I really don't need any more power to have a good time. But........if you want to build a Savage engine engine to the nth degree and time/money is not an object - there is no reason you can't proceed toward your dream. The only caution that I have is that the cylinder head on the Savage is a turd........the exhaust port is pathetic.......and you really would be better off starting with a DR650 engine and making it fit into a Savage frame. They also make a lot of performance parts for the DR650, and it can be made into a really peppy engine! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/15/18 at 11:27:44 P U N C T U A T I O N Please! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/15/18 at 11:42:06 I agree with Dave, the DR650 would be a much better starting point as larger cams , pistons can be found the head is a much better design andI think it might be able to be stroked.Dr650(2005) compression 9.5:1, bore 100mm stroke 82mm It also has an external cam chain adjustment. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Tocsik on 01/17/18 at 06:38:16 6B47544D71614753524E4F4354260 wrote:
Ain't going to happen for me I'm using this voice talk to text I suck at spelling got a learning disability in English. [/quote] Ah, I see. But can't you speak "period" or "comma" when appropriate? You are posting a lot and it would be considerate for the community. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Dave on 01/17/18 at 07:15:32 This well written story applies to most of us Savage riders that are forum members for extended periods...we kinda' like our low HP rides. Some of us have boosted our bikes a bit - but not to excess. I enjoy the thrill of the well ridden curvy road - I am not a drag racer. http://www.beginnerbikers.org/showthread.php?34648-In-Praise-of-35-Horses |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by ohiomoto on 01/17/18 at 10:08:07 Me too Dave, but that 580hp dyno run is still cool. My motor is stock, but I'd like to see what kind of HP GT61 has in mind. Not sure why everyone else is being so fuddy duddy about it. :) |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/17/18 at 11:09:12 32353432303229325D0 wrote:
Because he came in too strong, assuming that we don't know crap. He has no idea what members on this board have done or are doing, but he's the expert and will lead us all to higher horsepower. Thank God he arrived just in time to save us. Personally, I can't wait to strap a JATO rocket on one of my bikes and bring it to a drag strip, because that's where the real horsepower lives. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/17/18 at 15:36:58 THE little quote at the bottom of your post kind of covers that. What you've been saying doesn't really add up. The "kit " you want to put together will be more in parts and labor than the bike is worth.A blower or turbo will work to jam extra fuel in ,but the Savage has no way of dealing with the increase of temperature caused by increased combustion temperatures from higher combustion ratios, and no way to flow more exhaust due to the bad exhaust channel in the head .your like someone banging their head repeatedly against a steel wall expecting the wall to give way first ,only because you want it to. Boost on a stock motor should be limited to 3-5% without mods ,like lowering the CR and you propose to use a larger piston (97mm) which will do the opposite as will stroking the motor. I believe there's one tool missing from your tool box ,common sense .Dreams aren't real! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/17/18 at 17:01:15 634F5C4579694F5B5A46474B5C2E0 wrote:
And there it is. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/17/18 at 17:16:22 I'm not the one trying to get 50 hp out of the Savage , You on the other hand ,have all these "friends" that can do wonderful things ,I wonder how many it took to build your ZX-11 for you . There is and old saying "showing is better than telling" and in this case I really won't believe it , until I see it! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/18 at 17:34:03 Popular mechanics had a 3.5 hp Tecumseh making 35 hp when I was 16. I'm 63. How long it lasted wasn't part of the article. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/17/18 at 17:36:22 Have a good one |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Tocsik on 01/17/18 at 18:47:09 Now, c'mon man. This is really a very amiable community. It takes a lot to put us off, and your manner of posting has been very grating. I participate in a few forums and tend to stick with those where the members are cordial and humble enough to learn from one another. Try a different approach and you are welcome. Keep up with the same style of posting and you will feel the push back. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/17/18 at 18:48:00 Why are posts disappearing? |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Tocsik on 01/17/18 at 19:29:19 707A7E747F76727B252327170 wrote:
Noticed that, too. Moderators maybe deleting some? Strange to delete the kind posts and leave the snarky ones. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by ohiomoto on 01/17/18 at 19:59:45 Wow! Way to treat a new member who might have something cool to add to the community. This was instigated by us more than him. He only started "showing off" (if you can call it that) to prove he had some experience in the area of building engines. Why not say, "Okay, maybe you can get more out of this turd than we think, have at it!" Then sit back and see what happens. All due respect to all of you, but really? Thank god I never go to the tall table. Must be crazy in there. I never expect to see a pissing match in here. Just oil wars. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by savagebob on 01/17/18 at 20:14:45 Because this forum unfortunately.. as I have also found.. seem populated with people who take a negative attitude to anyone who wants to try something different. Look at all the flack I got with my supercharger.. I said I was going to boost it and was basically laughed at. I did it anyway and now I have a supercharged savage. ::) Seems like if you step outside the sensible mods all the negative nellies appear to lecture you on how it's the wrong bike, it's not made for that, just sell it and buy a faster bike, it won't work, don't bother, why are you bothering, "I'm-happy-with my-slow-savage-so-you'd-better-be-happy-with-it-too." What does it matter to you guys? Let the guy just try it! Waste his time and money on it if you want to think that but hey, we all benefit from the research whether it works or not! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/18 at 20:25:16 Looking at the mechanics and considering the outcomes and not seeing reasonable success is Evaluating and deciding. Being a cheerleader for things that don't look like winners just so someone won't judge the realist as Negative sounds disingenuous. Would you Really want people to applaud an idea that they honestly didn't see succeeding? How would you like to invest tons of money and time in a project that experienced people had a chance to wave you off of? How would you feel about presenting a loser idea to your financial advisor and he gives you Thumbs Up, to protect your feelings? You lose money, but he was Nice. Your priorities are screwed up. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/17/18 at 21:13:56 Just can't delete them all. if I could I would obviously delete them.some of the people on this forum have everything all figured out. Good luck |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/17/18 at 21:18:41 7E45495943412A0 wrote:
I'm a moderator on 4 forums. I guess I'm used to dealing with people that are used to dealing outside the box good lock on your builds. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/17/18 at 21:54:02 I'm sorry if I offended ,but I am also concerned about all the newbees that chimed in and want to follow you down the garden path,knowing little about the drawbacks they are facing . Comments like "using a separate oil tank and electric oil pump to supply a turbo" for one. They have no knowledge that the alternator on the savage won't support the amount of power it would take to drive a couple of driving lights much less any type of motor.I believe most of the people on this site love the Savage because of it simplicity and reliability ,and what you are intent on doing changes both, and I want them to know it may well be a dead end road. AS for thinking outside the box I might be the only person that has no spring under the pawl on my cam chain tensioner, I extended it at 19000 miles due to ware, and threw the spring away,( allowing the tensioner to act as a shock) most on the site said I was nuts ,and said time will tell , I'm fast approaching 33000 mile and still running the same chain that came with the bike in 1995.That's just one example of thinking outside the box ,the list goes on but I don't want to bore you. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/17/18 at 23:15:42 trust me I know what it takes. I could have bought a house for what I got in to my turbo bike. this ant my first or my last rodeo. the only reson I got in to this bike is becase my dad.he loves this bike and I love building crazy stuff and its something we can do together. he is on hear reading this as we go.i have the ability to get parts made becase of what I do and who I know for pretty cheep. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/18/18 at 00:07:30 Savagebob, no one said that you couldn't do it (at least I never did) but you can 't tell me you were successful when you were at highway speeds and the motor started pinging, and you nursed it back home . You said you might try and retard the spark and I sent you a PM about one way you might do it .(and any way you do it may work) I also said that you might have to drop the boost or the compression ratio and you said you didn't want to because you 'd lose performance.(no kidding! ) but that's not logical! I would give up some performance to have a bike that I could ride under all conditions, and you could test it easily by changing pulley sizes.If boost pressures have to be lowered when using a blower or turbo to avoid damage will they produce as much hp or less than a 97mm piston and stage 3 cam, which have been proven safe? while I think a blower may be the better approach ,I cannot in good faith recommend forced air for the Savage. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/18/18 at 00:49:27 I would run it on E85 or higher |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by savagebob on 01/18/18 at 02:01:28 6D6E7B626E613B370F0 wrote:
That's just it though isn't it. It's not your bike. We aren't all here to cruise around on our simple and reliable bikes. Yes I can say it's a success as it's a project. I wanted to boost the motor and I've done it. So it's a success for me. And if other people want to follow in my path all power to them. It's just bizarre to me to have people try and shoot down ideas just because they wouldn't do it, cos it's expensive or not sensible or whatever. Have fun, be adventurous! Some people like me and GT61 just want to tinker and build crazy stuff and it's tiresome coming on here and having to justify it to people. I don't bother anymore which is why I'm rarely on here now. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by savagebob on 01/18/18 at 02:23:31 617E787F62655464546C7E72390B0 wrote:
No there aren't. I presented my 'loser' idea when I got here years ago and got the 'thumbs down' from the advisory board to use your analogy. I did it anyway and it worked out. I'm happy with it. Perhaps not such a loser idea after all. Nobody is looking for cheerleading but IMO forums should be a place to share ideas freely without being heavily shot down all the time from people who for whatever reason wouldn't do it themselves. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/18/18 at 11:52:23 554750474143444944260 wrote:
I was replying to Bob. Cheerleading something that doesn't make sense just to be supportive is disingenuous. You have access to special tools and equipment and people. You're in a unique position. If it's a fun project for you, get all over it. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/18/18 at 12:29:54 So I was one of the first to give input to Mr. Horsepower. Here's what I said (post #8): "I don't believe that the LS650 motor is under stroked. In fact, it has evolved from a 400cc engine where they increased stroke and bore to achieve a capacity of 650cc. There is opportunity (as proven) to increase the bore and compression ratio. The stoke is a more involved change and may not yield results that justify the efforts. But by all means, have at it and keep us informed. Be prepared to go through several engines in the process of testing." Suzuki has a history of taking small displacement bikes and then boring and stroking them to achieve additional capacity. I've owned several. Typically when Suzuki punches out a motor, there isn't a lot to be gained in the stroke, but there usually more room left in the bore so cylinders can be rebuilt/refurbished. At no time did I say it can't be done, just that it's probably not worth the time, money and effort. Experience has shown where the low hanging fruit is on these engines. Beyond that you're into cubic dollars. Lots of failure and retesting. But I love testing. I work for a company that makes aerospace components and we do a lot of DO-160 / MIL-STD-810 testing here. Testing will always surprise you. You just never know how things will come apart. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=washing+machine+destruction&&view=detail&mid=A0E4D3E2A89F8F7EBAA4A0E4D3E2A89F8F7EBAA4&&FORM=VDRVRV I love these videos. Whenever something goes wrong on the 6 degrees of freedom vibration table this makes me smile. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/18/18 at 13:07:30 I'll never strip another washer to haul to the scrap yard. Just toss in a cinder block and run an extension cord. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/18/18 at 14:10:11 Mite put this on it lol ;D jk |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by savagebob on 01/18/18 at 14:23:38 1935263F03133521203C3D3126540 wrote:
Ha ha no E85 where I live mate. Best I can get it 98RON |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/18/18 at 19:49:49 352730272123242924460 wrote:
Ha ha no E85 where I live mate. Best I can get it 98RON [/quote] Where you live |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by jcstokes on 01/18/18 at 22:44:27 Interesting, from previous posts I thought the USA was on AKI, we use RON in New Zealand, best we get is 98 RON unless you use 102 AVGAS. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/18/18 at 22:55:56 666F7F786367697F0C0 wrote:
Can you order gas like VPrace fuel |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by savagebob on 01/20/18 at 01:24:30 6844574E72624450514D4C4057250 wrote:
Can you order gas like VPrace fuel[/quote] Maybe but.. flag that sort of inconvenience |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/20/18 at 01:35:51 You could do water injection or methanol injection I would do 50/50 and have it come on at certain PSI only and just run a Lil jug or run it on straight methanol lol |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/20/18 at 01:43:21 You could do water injection or methanol injection I would do 50/50 and have it come on at certain PSI only and just run a Lil jug or run it on straight methanol lol |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/20/18 at 01:44:26 VP race fuel |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/20/18 at 01:45:05 Or this at a auto parts store |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/20/18 at 01:48:14 I run this in the turbo bike https://vpracingfuels.com/product/air-race/ |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/20/18 at 01:50:52 This is all you would need to go to 15 to 20 psi https://vpracingfuels.com/product/vp-110/ |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Dave on 01/22/18 at 06:56:28 While using exotic fuels could work on a bike that you ride at the drag strip or on short local trips - but it really wouldn't work for a lot of use who need to stop once or twice for fuel on our local rides....and some of us go on multi day rides that may go into 3 different states in the same day. Even here in the Cincinnati area E85 access is very limited. For those of us who like to go riding on a regular basis - we need to be able to use regular or premium fuels that are available at all public stations - in all states. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/22/18 at 08:27:08 7C474A5D4C405B5D464E435C2F0 wrote:
I wasn't talking about the Daly riders I was talking about his bike with a blower incase he wants to turn it up to see how much he it would make for fun. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Dave on 01/22/18 at 09:08:43 2F03100935250317160A0B0710620 wrote:
Savagebob's bike is ridden on the street, and on sometimes on road trips. He has told me that 98RON fuel is the fuel that is available to him at the local pumps in New Zealand. 302235222426212C21430 wrote:
I felt that it was worthwhile noting that some of the high performance fuels and performance modifications just aren't going to work on motorcycles that are used on public roads...some of which can be very rural. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/22/18 at 13:34:46 0F34392E3F33282E353D302F5C0 wrote:
Savagebob's bike is ridden on the street, and on sometimes on road trips. He has told me that 98RON fuel is the fuel that is available to him at the local pumps in New Zealand. 302235222426212C21430 wrote:
I felt that it was worthwhile noting that some of the high performance fuels and performance modifications just aren't going to work on motorcycles that are used on public roads...some of which can be very rural. [/quote] Yup that's why I hope I can get a stroker kit built for this so that way it can still be on pump gas but have more cubic inches which means more displacement which means more horsepower and torque because there's no replacement for displacement |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/18 at 13:51:11 1834273E02123420213D3C3027550 wrote:
There's no replacement for running either. ;) |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/22/18 at 14:28:57 ARE we at eight pages yet? |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/22/18 at 14:54:46 766572736C6167656E31000 wrote:
There's no replacement for running either. ;)[/quote] I have 6 bikes I ant worried about this one not running yet ;D |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/18 at 14:58:10 Make no mistake... have popcorn, will travel. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/22/18 at 16:46:42 5E4D5A5B44494F4D4619280 wrote:
LOL okay palatin Have Gun Will Travel LOL Time to go plow |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Christof13T on 01/24/18 at 07:58:36 Kind of late to this party but felt like interjection is warranted... 1st off... Reading someone's plans to soak a lack luster engine platform in money to make an attempt at solving problems that do not exist, then to immediately ask for a free engine to destroy ... is very off putting. If one can afford to tumble down THAT rabbit hole... one darn well better be able to afford every facet of the experiment. 2nd-ly... Displacement is not this engine platform's weak link. It is air in and out. The weak links will increase once you make the attempt to "stroke" it. Especially if you intend to go bigger with the bore. Subtracting from the wall thickness of the sleeve coupled with the added stress on the piston skirts at midpoint on the compression stroke is a recipe for carnage. 3rd point. How much stress do you really think the case halves can handle? In the past few weeks I have seen several cases actually EXPLODE (on the facebook Savage groups) when something let loose at the counterbalance shaft bearing supports. So what happens to your big bore, stroked, air starved and blocked engine when it backfires just at the wrong time? That's right... A whole bunch of money down the drain... All for the right to say "Hey look at the neat thing my friends built for me!". Being a machinist that spent most of my career in r&d... This thread feels more like an april fools joke than a serious build plan. Don't get me wrong... No one here has said that it flat out will not work... The resounding message is that there is nothing you can do that will make the gains worth the cost, or the risk of failure. For the cost of the proposed crank mods alone you could have 2 compete running engines to play with. If you wanted to spend good money after bad... focus on re-engineering the head to flow better. A complete new head design with better flow will out perform pretty much anything you can do to the rotating assembly. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/24/18 at 10:53:37 052E342F35322920777512460 wrote:
How many hp world record's do you hold ? |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/24/18 at 11:36:24 022E3D2418082E3A3B27262A3D4F0 wrote:
Wow, you have about the worst people skills I've encountered in a long time. So how many HP world records to YOU hold? I checked guinnessworldrecords.com, wikipedia, and I couldn't find an official ZX-14 HP record. Are you Randy Hope of Lil' Hope Racing from Ontario Canada? He holds a speed record on a ZX-14 Are you William Scherer? He holds the ZX-14 record at Bonneville Are you Kevin Mullner? He claims 230.157mph on a youtube video Doesn't matter - I don't care if you are one of the above and hold every record in the world. Point is, you're a very abrasive person. You are completely unwilling to accept constructive input from people who have had their hands in the little air cooled engine. And let's say you become the WORLD RECORD HOLDER for an LS650 - I still wont give a crap, because it will also be the most useless world record. Please, hurry up and go blow up a few engines, so you'll get discouraged and go away. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/24/18 at 11:41:26 The Savage is not a ZX-11, Stroking, use of larger/higher compression pistons is in fact counterproductive when supercharging this bike. lowering CR by one point ( 8.5:1 to7.5;1 , causes a 3% loss in power) but allows an increase in boost (1 psi of boost gains a 3.5% increase in power) . With a static CR of 8.5 we can run 4 psi of boost and increase power by 7% while ending up at peak torque ,with(effective compression ratio ECR.) of 10.8;1 . At 7.5 :1 boost can be raised to 6 psi ( 21% -3% =an 18% increase in power with an ECR of 10.6:1. Let's look at 6.5;1 running 9 psi of boost gives 31.5% - 6% =25.5% gain in power and an ECR of10.5:1 All of three examples above two very important things in common, compression ratios that will not cause ,overheating, detonation, or the use of anything more that high octane pump gas ,which is available anywhere you go. All FACTS above can be found at the site I posted on 1/20/18. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/24/18 at 12:09:15 Lol |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Christof13T on 01/24/18 at 14:44:15 6C6F7A636F603A360E0 wrote:
Dood is a troll. Obviously has ZERO idea what it takes to redesign and engine platform and lacks the thought articulation to even attempt the arithmetic to pull such an engineering blight from the depths of stupid. Where is the block button again? |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/24/18 at 14:54:06 You act like you're talking to somebody that doesn't know what they're doing lol thanks for the information |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/24/18 at 15:38:16 You came here, asked for opinions, didn't get what you wanted, and pretended we are all a55holes, Debbie Downers, naysayers, got butthurt and high and mighty. Go BUILD your beast. Prove us wrong. Batman sure proved me wrong. I had no support for his tensioner, but time proved me wrong. Go get it. We want you to win. It would be great to have a way to wring more power outta the engine and not create a grenade. If you have the stuff, get all over it. Worst thing that can happen is, it doesn't work out. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/24/18 at 16:40:33 CRISY ,I DON'T BELIEVE YOU REDSIGNED YOUR BIKE ! YOU FOLLOWED IN THE PROVEN FOOTSTEPS OF OTHERS . WHAT MAKES YOU A BRAIN TRUST? BRAKING A NEW MOTOR IN BY CRUSING IT AT 75 ON THE HIGHWAY! DAH! IF THE YOU WERE FUNCTIONALLY LITERATE ,YOU COULD READ THE POSTING RULES FOR THIS SITE THAT SAY PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE A NO,NO. AND IF YOU READ THE SITE-XCCELERATION.COM CR-BOOST 101-AND YOU HAD SUFFICIENT READING COMPREHENSION YOU WOULD FIND THAT ALL OF THE NUMBERS I QUOTED CAME NOT OUT OF THIN AIR,BUT FROM PUBLISHED DATA. YOUR OPINION OF ME DOESN'T CHANGE THE TRUTH! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/24/18 at 16:54:55 ZX-11, " You act like you're talking to somebody that doesn't know what they're doing" (your words not mine) . |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Armen on 01/24/18 at 17:34:11 Hey kiddies, can we get back to being civil? Let's face it, the kid has all the people skills of a pit bull with hemmeroids. Truth is, he doesn't sound like much more of an arrogant bozo than I did a few decades ago. So, I'm trying to be polite. FWIW, Powroll used to offer crank stroking services for just about any roller crank back in the day. Their argument was that with a crappy set of ports, high RPMs were a waste of time, as the cylinder just couldn't fill and empty fast enough. And boring the cylinder sometimes left no wall thickness. Offsetting the crank pin (stroking the crank) offered more leverage to the crank, therefor more torque at lower RPMs. Makes sense to me. To be honest, I really doubt the guy will pull it off. But it would be interesting to see the project. I just picked up a copy of one of the Brit Classic mags, and a guy made a four cylinder motor out a triple. There are amazing people out there. And ZX, I don't know if you are using a voice-to-text program, or if English isn't your language, or if you didn't finish 3rd grade, but the level of grammar and spelling errors you have is spectacular. Maybe proof read before hitting the 'post' box? You lose a lot of credibility because of your writing style. And ZX, in answer to your question as to how many records we might have, I humbly offer mine. Two AHRMA national championships (250GP, and 500 SOS Senior). And 40 years of working on bikes. And being a machinist. And a welder. And writing tech articles for basically every english language bike magazine on earth, and a radio program for years, and taught tech seminars at national rallies, and teaching motorcycle maintenance for 39 years. And a bunch of other stuff I forgot. And I'm not the best guy on this list. SO, before you start asking everyone to drop their pants and pass out the rulers, understand that you'll probably come up short. peace... |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Christof13T on 01/24/18 at 18:41:36 6162776E626D373B030 wrote:
Huh? Dood... What? I think you misunderstood my point in quoting your post... You were not the troll I was referencing... Did I allude that I redesigned anything on my bike? Did I state something that was incorrect? I kind of felt like I was being supportive of the sane majority among posters in this thread. The point of me quoting your post was to allude that your very well organized and thought out information was falling on deaf ears. And once again... An oversized bore is an oversized bore. no amount of gentle ring seating is going to take up .0085" of slack per side between the piston and jug. After close enough to 200 miles into break in... the 10-15 seconds it took me to gently accelerate to traffic speed would never have been an issue save for the slack in the bore. Hence why Bill came out of pocket to resleeve my jug and rework it. The difference in how it feels, runs, pulls, and sounds are unmistakable. Is it advisable to run above 55 mph during break in? Of course not... How many of these engines are still out there thumping and pumping after being whipped like a dog right out of the box? Probably a heck of a lot more still running than failed. 'Muricans are not known for our restraint... Do you really believe Suzuki would have been successful with a product that could not stand up to good 'ol 'Murican bravado? Remember what this bike was designed to compete with... And just one more time for reiteration - My "attack" was in no way a reference to you Batz. I thought it had become evident that I do respect your input, even when I may disagree. ;) |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by savagebob on 01/24/18 at 18:52:00 http://https://static.vibe.com/files/2013/08/VIBE-Vixen-Michael-Jackson-Gif51-500x300.jpg |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/24/18 at 18:53:58 I have a pit to lol I am busy in the shop you guys should work as much as you bull nuts lol ;D |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by batman on 01/24/18 at 19:17:27 Christ, Very Sorry ! I thought you were addressing me ,my mistake ! (guess you should have saved the block button for me!) |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by Christof13T on 01/24/18 at 20:49:58 76756079757A202C140 wrote:
Well that escalated quickly! lol Just call me Thump Thump Jesus Lmao!!! No worries man. I probably should have made my intent more clear in that post, and I see how it was easily misconstrued. I do kind of have to prod a little about the functional literacy jab lol. Come on Brother... With as anal as I am with grammatical articulation... My bee business partner is a Dr. and tenured professor of argumentative communications. Our favorite pastime while on the road to and from bee colony removals is debating communications, politics, law, and religion. He keeps prodding me to go test out a degree and teach lol. I DON'T WANNA, DANG IT! I could see eventually teaching in a vocational setting(machining, welding, mechanics) or opening up to more than 1 beekeeping apprentice at a time. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by ohiomoto on 01/25/18 at 07:26:46 1F2C333B305E0 wrote:
I'm with Armen. Must we all be like-minded around here? I'm blown away by what I'm reading on here. And it's not the OP. It's the respected members who are being extremely aggressive for no good reason. (Who are even starting to fight amongst themselves???) So who is trolling who here? The OP wants to try something different with HIS bike, HIS time and HIS money. If you don't like, move along. Don't waste your time. All you doing is making yourself look insecure and petulant. I have absolutely zero interest in doing any significant motor mods to my bike. But, I love seeing what others try to do with theirs. If it works great, if not, at least you had the balls to try. No skin off my nose. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/25/18 at 08:08:48 And I thought he pitched it and asked what we thought about it. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/25/18 at 08:19:10 5750515755574C57380 wrote:
I'm with Armen. Must we all be like-minded around here? I'm blown away by what I'm reading on here. And it's not the OP. It's the respected members who are being extremely aggressive for no good reason. (Who are even starting to fight amongst themselves???) So who is trolling who here? The OP wants to try something different with HIS bike, HIS time and HIS money. If you don't like, move along. Don't waste your time. All you doing is making yourself look insecure and petulant. I have absolutely zero interest in doing any significant motor mods to my bike. But, I love seeing what others try to do with theirs. If it works great, if not, at least you had the balls to try. No skin off my nose. [/quote] Thanks I hope it works lol if not back to the drawing board lmfao |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/25/18 at 08:20:28 6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:
Nope I asked if anybody would be interested in a stroker kit |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/25/18 at 11:35:40 When the No, I don't think I would be interested Was followed by Why, then you got unhappy.. I hope it works, and since the bore and stroke are equal, it just might. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by norm92de on 01/25/18 at 12:19:39 I don't want to knock anybody. There are plenty of capable engineers on this site but as somebody already pointed out. The cylinder head is the place to start. A complete redesign of the head might be the most productive avenue. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/25/18 at 14:49:09 6869746B3F346263060 wrote:
All ready Ben looking in to that mitt make a built head we will see. I wish we could put a Dr650 head on it lol. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by norm92de on 01/25/18 at 14:59:35 With your capabilities, why not. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/25/18 at 15:36:13 7A7B66792D267071140 wrote:
Have to make it so people can afford it then everyone can injoy it because a head swap is pretty easy for most people . |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by savagebob on 01/28/18 at 19:47:32 I'm still waiting for someone to just stick a DR650 motor into a Savage. I looked into it but just couldn't get my hands on one. They look very similar. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/29/18 at 02:38:14 312334232527202D20420 wrote:
I am looking in to that to lol I was talking to Lancer about it. The head on the Dr650 is nice. Plus they all ready go to 790cc just on a big bore kit. And there's a tone of parts available for the motor. |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/29/18 at 02:44:11 5D71627B475771656478797562100 wrote:
I am looking in to that to lol I was talking to Lancer about it. The head on the Dr650 is nice. Plus they all ready go to 790cc just on a big bore kit. And there's a tone of parts available for the motor. [/quote] |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/29/18 at 02:44:40 0824372E12022430312D2C2037450 wrote:
I am looking in to that to lol I was talking to Lancer about it. The head on the Dr650 is nice. Plus they all ready go to 790cc just on a big bore kit. And there's a tone of parts available for the motor. [/quote] [/quote] |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by savagebob on 01/30/18 at 01:54:02 yep.. make a kit to fit one of those into a savage and we'll be talking! |
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Title: Re: stroker crank Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/30/18 at 05:34:41 544651464042454845270 wrote:
Lol yup and there getting good power out of them to |
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