SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Savage running bad /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1515499264 Message started by Mitsy on 01/09/18 at 04:01:04

Title: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/09/18 at 04:01:04 Hello folks! If been scouting on this forum for several weeks now, now its time to post something! Year: 1992 Kilometers: 64000 Completely stock engine So i purchased a Savage a while ago as starter bike, when i finally could drive it worked fine for some weeks. Now after a while going to work for somedays it started to run bad, it runs at very high rpm in idle, but giving a litle bit of gas and it goes back again to normal idle. And while driving and slowing down it sputters and it goes completely out at the stoplight. Also when i release the gas it jerks. I have to drive with the choke full out or else it wont run. Now i already had some problems with the carb before, the diaphgram was damaged so i bought a good 2nd hand carb and replaced the best parts to my own, it all worked fine and good and now this problem shows up. Carb is completely cleaned several times(even without finding any dirt). When i start it with the choke the rpms are not any different then when its warm, not even a lil bit higher. Last time i removed the carb because i couldnt drive faster and it was super slow, i found that the diaphgram was stuck at the sides so i sanded the rough edges a lil bit with 1200, doesnt sound good but it was scratched from the inside.  The petcock is good, carb is clean, it gets enough fuel, air screw is at 1.5 open. Fresh castrol oil 20w40 JASO MA2. Also i could easily push the bike forward in 4th gear so i think that the valves arent good either. This problem starts to happen when the engine gets warmer so i suspect there is something wrong with the choke, but i dont know what. If been to several dealers but they all dont wanna help me because its a savage This is my first bike so i do not know much about bikes at all, but i did what i could do. Thanks in advance, and hope to hear something soon!

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Dave on 01/09/18 at 04:08:40 Do you have the stock vacuum petcock on the bike? Have you tried the "test your petcock"? http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/09/18 at 04:27:19 Yeah i tried and it works fine as its supposed to do, i even put on new hoses to make sure there is no vacuum leak. It is still the original one. Thanks for the fast reply!

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Dave on 01/09/18 at 04:36:23 You might need to check the rubber boot that attaches the carb to the cylinder.  As these age they can crack and provide an air leak. When you have to run with the choke out - it is a indication the mixture is too lean and the choke makes the mixture richer.  The first thing that I suspect when this happens is a plugged pilot jet.....or an air leak. When you cleaned the carb......did you attempt to look through the tiny hole in the pilot jet and confirm it was not blocked?

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/09/18 at 04:43:17 When i came home today it was idling at high rpms, after playing with the gas it stopped,  i checked those rubbers already too, couldnt find anything, even tried running it without airfilter but still the same, all the jets are clean as it can get, i removed them 2 days ago and cleaned them again.

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/09/18 at 05:41:34 Welcome to the forum. The air leak that Dave was referring to would be between the carb and the cylinder head, not on the airfilter side. A good way to test the for cracks or leaks is to spray the suspect area with carb cleaner while the bike is warm and idling. If the rpms change when the boot area is sprayed, you have found your leak. BTW, we "ride" motorcycles, we don't "drive" them.

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Dave on 01/09/18 at 06:42:13 0024393E347C7C7D4D0 wrote: after playing with the gas it stopped. What does this mean?  Throttle, petcock, idle mixture screw?

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/09/18 at 06:56:42 Just with the throttle handle

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by batman on 01/09/18 at 10:00:27 It sounds as if the side is hanging up ,or the throttle cable needs to be oiled ,sanding in this area was a no- no! the slide should have a black coating on it ,and should not be sanded ,I hope you just sanded the bore and even that might not be good. You said you have the air screw 1 1/2 turns open, it is in fact a fuel screw and if your running with the choke on all the time, it may not be open far enough ,you need to tune it by warming the bike up then slowing the idle down (with the choke off) and turning the screw until you hear the highest idle speed ( you might be better off starting with the screw out about 2  turns and adjust up or down from there) If the screw is in to far your starving fuel to the carb at idle ,and that's is why you are running with the choke on ,to compensate. Don't forget to raise the idle speed back up to at least 1000rpm afterward .( you can set the idle speed on a flat road ,bike in 1st gear ,throttle closed , it should run at a speed of at least 13 km.)When tuning carbs it is helpful if we know your general location and elevation above sea level.

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Dave on 01/09/18 at 13:07:21 4165787F753D3D3C0C0 wrote: Fresh castrol oil 20w40 JASO MA2. This oil won't cause the current running problem - but how much ZDDP is in that oil?  If it only has 600 - 800 ppm, you are going to get accelerated cam and rocker wear.

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/10/18 at 12:40:56 I have actually no idea, gotta check that. I changed today the air mix screw with another one and found out mine didnt even have this small metal-rubber ring on the inside but just a spring(?). Could this cause any running problems? Where does this small spring even come from anymay? I dont think it belongs there, maybe the previous owner changed it?

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by norm92de on 01/10/18 at 13:05:11 The idle mixture screw definitely needs the tiny 'O' ring on it. Without it you will be getting air flowing and consequently a lean mixture. Also, the spring is part of the system and needs to be there to prevent the screw from turning on its own.

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/10/18 at 13:37:58 Oh maybe the problem is THAT screw, i always thought it was for the air, the slide is full silver, all the black paint is gone and there are 2 points on it that are even deeper damaged, last time i opened the carb the slide was stuck between those walls. What is actually inside that screw? Mine had a small spring in it, but another i opened had just a small rubber-metal ring in it, so i dont know whats right. Tomorrow im gonna try what you said with the screw, i dont know what elevation im at but i found something on google that said 52meters above sealevel. (East of Netherlands). :D Btw, the cable is fine, it goes back instantly but when im at higher rpms and release the throttle it takes a while for the bike to get back to idle rpms, which i find quite annoying, happens too between shifts, sometimes it sounds like im just keeping the gas open between shifts(ofc im not). Thanks for the useful replies!

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/10/18 at 13:41:00 Im totally reading this thread wrong :-X. Sorry norm92de, found your reply after i posted my long reply :-[ Thanks!

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by IslandRoad on 01/10/18 at 17:57:48 Just a thought, given that you have discovered at least one part missing from your carb - Was there a large floppy spring in the top of the carb? It fits down the inside of the slide, and pushes up against the cap. It sounds like your slide is not dropping down when the air volume in the carb drops. So, either your slide is sticking, or the spring isn't there to push it back down.

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by batman on 01/10/18 at 18:23:05 There is also a chance that the plate down inside the slide that holds the needle jet in place is assembled incorrectly, (upside down and /or backwards) when you look down inside there is a small divot in the plate near the needle ,it should be  protruding downward ,  you should be able to see light through the two tiny holes that go completely through the bottom of the slide ,the brass plate needs to be aligned to allow this, as air moves back and forth through them when the slide moves up and down.

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/11/18 at 01:48:27 Ehm the slide has the spring in it with an extra tube to hold the spring in place, the slide stuck when it was completely down so not up, its strange because when i move it with my hand its completely free but still got stuck somehow, found this out when the bike didnt pull as it used to. I couldnt find the oil ZDDP containment. All it says is 4T 20w-40 SAE API SJ; JASO MA-2 (JASO T903: 2006) ACTEVO Castrol. Im gonna fix this sxrew with the spring and rubber ring and try to ride with it for a longer period. Thanks guys

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/11/18 at 01:50:21 Oh btw the needle inside this slide is installed correctly, i can see trough these holes

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by IslandRoad on 01/11/18 at 02:17:07 BTW, that tube you mentioned, that holds the spring in place, is most likely a throttle restrictor. It stops the slide from opening fully. I had one in mine. I took it out and I got another 13 km/hr on the top speed, and another 500 rpm. I made a thread about it here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1487675612

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/11/18 at 14:30:49 Oh thanks man, totally gonna remove that tube, didnt know about that! So i guess i finally found the cause, it was the fuel screw that did not have a rubber and metal ring inside it. Now its running fine again after weeks of searching ;D. It is still running with high rpms after releasing the throttle when the engine is hot, still no idea why. Thanks all for the nice, fast and useful replies!

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by batman on 01/12/18 at 00:07:55 when you rebuilt the carb using two , did you place the brass washer on the main jet before screwing it in ? if it's not there the needle jet (the cylinder with the holes ) will fall away from the carb the depth of the missing washer and excess fuel will leak around it, and the tip of the needle will not seat.  And yes get rid of that tube around the spring on top ,we in the US had never seen or heard of it until IslandRoad  informed us of it . 53meters is about 168 ft , which is close to sea level ,if your running the stock main jet the bike could be running lean(is your header pipe turning blue?),it might be good to install a larger main jet .

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/12/18 at 06:31:56 Im gonna check in the evening today in the carb, the exhaust is getting yellow, i am sure the brass washer is still there. Im gonna remove the tube too, didnt have time for it yet! Thanks

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/14/18 at 08:20:36 So, after the savage finely running good, its using oil like gas, i drove yesterday like 50kms total, before i checked the oil it was nice in the middle of these 2 lines, now after i checked there is no oil visible! Anyone know how this happens? this oil isnt cheap either at 14EUR/L

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/14/18 at 09:35:51 That's about $68.00/ gallon. No idea how you could use that much oil in thirty miles. I'd be looking at the oil truck drivers use.

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by verslagen1 on 01/14/18 at 10:07:38 most likely your rings are gone. take out sparky and look at the top of the piston. is there a thick coat of carbon? take a screw driver and scrape some off. leaks? air box drain tube? total mileage?

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by batman on 01/14/18 at 10:53:38 her mileage is 64000 km ,40,000 miles

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/14/18 at 12:37:55 That's alot of money to ride a bike that is supposed to be cheaper than a car :P. im gonna check all those tomorrow guys Since i have this bike (my first) im having so many problems with it. Always when i drove it, it has like 10 drops of oil under it and i still dont know where it comes from. thanks for replies!

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/14/18 at 13:10:39 I'd start with tightening the through bolts that hold the pegs on. They clamp the case together. It will leak from the bottom of the engine if they are loose.

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by verslagen1 on 01/14/18 at 15:35:19 You need to check your cam chain before long.

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/16/18 at 03:50:03 If i need to check the cam-chain, do i need to replace the gaskets? because it looks like the previous owner already opened the engine and did a very bad job with the gaskets because i can see them everywhere around the engine. I did not check the spark yet, maybe im gonna do that today. I think about selling it again and buy a different, newer bike because when i drive im always scared that something else happens. Thanks guys! You''ll hear from me

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by Mitsy on 01/16/18 at 03:50:54 Oh and the bolts are tight as it can get, so still no idea but i think it something internal

Title: Re: Savage running bad Post by verslagen1 on 01/16/18 at 07:18:50 You need to have one on hand if you expect to ride it soon.

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