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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1507693520 Message started by That1Foo on 10/10/17 at 20:45:19 |
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Title: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by That1Foo on 10/10/17 at 20:45:19 Alright, this is my first post of this forum and I am beyond grateful for what I have learned from the rest of these Suzuki masters on this site already. I bought an '08 S40 for what I thought was a deal at $500 bucks. It is my first motorcycle and so like most newbs I am not only unfamiliar with terminology but the basic mechanics of a motorcycle as well. After frequenting this site and as many other videos on the web, I feel at least a little accomplished in not being as shy around the machine as when I had first made the purchase. But, I still have not had any luck in getting the bike to fire up. I am not sure of all of the work that was done to the bike before it became mine, but for the most part it looks like the previous owner put on a straight pipe and fiddled with the carburetor since the brass plug for adjustments had already been pulled. Since the wiring harness was seemed shot and honestly pretty bootleg I opted for a second hand wiring harness rather than tackle that mess. Now after a new (to this bike) wiring harness, starter relay, ignition coil, R/R, battery, spark plug and OEM muffler and a carburetor cleaning..I don't know what else to work on to get it to run. After turning key in ignition I get lights, after hitting start button the I hear a click and then just a whir whir whir sound of the starter and then like a thump like it missed it's firing cycle. Fresh gas, nice big blue spark....but still no clue. I'm thinking it may be a badly adjusted decompression...thing...but im not sure how to go about straightening that out..it gives a little upon cranking the ignition but there is a little slack in the decompression cable. Any thoughts? :-? |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by verslagen1 on 10/10/17 at 21:50:37 0E323B2E6B1C35355A0 wrote:
1st, congrats, welcome to the madness. :-? if the engine is turning, it's not the decomp. the cable should be loose. If the chrome caps are off the top, you should be able to see the lever pull up for a half second then release. If it's too loose, every once in a while the starter will stall. Too tight and it may take longer to start. In the tech section index (link below) go down to carb specs and check out the hoses. the vent hoses don't hook up to anything, just stick them in the frame above the carb. sparky fires every TDC, so you will get a spark on the exhaust cycle. Did it ever run? and it's not impossible to get a connector or two connected to the wrong component. wiring color is the easiest clue, signals don't match but most everything else does. what jets? and it's not unusual for a savage to be obstinate after some work. try some starting fluid. Hey, I'm in duarte... we're neighbors. |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by That1Foo on 10/10/17 at 23:28:01 Thanks for the intro neighbor. I would be interested to have this group in all the same room and see how it goes :o I have gotten the engine to run once, maybe twice, but only momentarily. The bike would die oddly once if I let off the throttle. The next time it died when I gave it throttle. I double checked all over the wiring harness and believe that all should be well on that end. But I am by no means knowledgeable about amps and volts... Starting fluid won't do the trick. The chrome covers are off as well so I could see the decomp. lever but it barely twitches. Doesn't act as you explained. I am not sure about the jet sizings. Maybe the prior owner swapped when they installed the straight pipe. But that is beyond my understanding. I suspected a dirty card so I had taken it off to open it up and clean it (noting how things came off/went back on ) and i've read all manuals to make sure that the hoses are properly placed. Only thing I may have forgot to mention is that i'm guilty for not knowing about the Raptor petcock and got another manual that fit. But fuel still flows when set to prime and I have the vaccuum plugs capped off. |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/17 at 09:39:39 We've seen a motor damaged by starting with no oil on the cylinder wall. Checking spark proves it will spark, but it's not proof of spark Under Load. With the plug in place, Take your plug wire Stick it on another plug See if it sparks.. |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by That1Foo on 10/11/17 at 10:05:43 How can I help avoid cranking with no oil on cylinder walls? Any product recommendations? And with brand new battery (bought yesterday) I get my multi meter reading at 12.4 with keys in on position. While trying to crank engine over reading falls to under 10 maybe under 9 volts. This eventually depletes the battery. So back to let's say full battery, I have a plug in the port and another in the boot. Cranking over shows nice blue spark but it's not enough to fire up with what I believe is good fuel flow to the carburetor. Of course choke is out when attempting to start. I feel like I have the gas, the spark, and I don't have a modified air intake so I don't know what's the issue. Previous post shinned the light in decomp lever not acting correct while engine cranking but I don't know what's causing it not to engage |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/17 at 10:28:24 I like ether on a hard start. fogging oil The vertical design added to a front tire up on something should get oil all the way around rings. Might foul a plug, but it's easier to pull plugs than fix a cylinder. If you pull the tank again you can leave it off until it's running. Before you pull it, check the float level. Clearish tubing on the bowl drain held up next to the bowl will show you the fuel level. Should be at or just below the bowl gasket. When something is being difficult I eliminate variables. Ether will make one bump, proving compression and timing, and spark. |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by That1Foo on 10/11/17 at 11:00:54 Shot of ether doesn't seem to do the trick :-/ But I will try and re-orientate the front wheel to a higher position to spread the oil around. Definitely going to drain the bowl and check for amount of fluid. I had opened it up to see a drain but didn't confirm amount in float bowl. Hoping it's not to do with compression...that just sounds like a wicked problem to have |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/17 at 12:32:24 Even a healthy battery will not be able to s p in the motor without the compression stroke slowing down the starter. If it's got good compression, you should hear the beat. |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by Dave on 10/11/17 at 13:13:48 If your voltage is dropping that much when you crank the engine - the ignition system cannot create a spark with that low of voltage. What do you know about the battery.....how old is it? Have you tried jumper cables to a car battery (do not run the car when you jump a motorcycle). |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by batman on 10/11/17 at 13:47:29 I'm confused by the last line in his statement ,"I got another manual(petcock) that fit .But fuel still flows when set to prime and I have the vacuum plugs capped off" 1) a manual petcock doesn't have a "prime" position ,so do you have a stock petcock? 2) Vacuum plugs (two ? ) plugged off ,if you have a stock petcock you should be running the vacuum line between the carb and petcock ,if not you should only need to plug the ONE vacuum port in the carb just below the fuel mix screw . If you have plugged two lines near the back of the carb bowl you have plugged the bowl vents that need to be open to atmosphere to allow fuel to enter the bowl ( fuel in, air out) to it's normal height . |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by That1Foo on 10/11/17 at 15:44:26 I suspected compression a little while back and bought a tester. Dumb me happened to get one that doesn't fit. I haven't gotten back around to picking up the correct part and actually testing. The old battery would drain in volts when connected to the multi meter with key in both on and off positions. Steadily dropping before trying to start it up and doing more so when I did try to turn it over. I just just bought this new battery now maybe two days ago. It is a Yuasa electrolyte battery. I asked the guys behind the counter and they said after filling the empty battery there during the sale that it should be about 85% charge. After installing the new battery when I got home it read 12.3 volts key in off position.. floating between 12.2 - 12.1 with key in on position. Multi meter dipped to high 9's low 10's when hitting the starter. Didn't keep on it to save the battery. As far as the Petcock, it was labeled a manual petcock on Amazon but when I reviewed it it had the carb line and what I thought was a line for the vacuum. It also has and ON and PRI position. I connected it like the OEM setup to try that first and no start. After that I just set the valve to PRI and plugged up the little ports to remove the vacuum aspect. (Covering the extra line on the petcock and the vacuum on the carb) Sorry for any confusion |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by Dave on 10/11/17 at 17:53:55 6C50594C097E5757380 wrote:
That just doesn't sound good to me - your battery should not be dropping voltage that much when you hit the start button. The ignition module cannot operate at such low voltage, and it won't make a spark. (I believe it needs 10.5 volts or more for the control module - but I don't know for sure if that is the exact voltage so hopefully someone else will confirm what the lowest acceptable voltage is). |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/17 at 18:11:58 filling the empty battery there during the sale that it should be about 85% charge. That's your clue to charge it. |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by That1Foo on 10/11/17 at 18:16:11 I can remember seeing 10.5 minimum floating around in the threads somewhere. If I can locate it I'll come back and link the info. I am going to go over all wiring connections again and if all is well there... then I'm off to testing the individual starting components individually and start that egg hunt. Thanks to all you fellow riders for comments on this thread. If I may ask two questions to pick your brains further.. Does anyone know how to adjust a slow reacting decompression lever? And how to go about tackling possible low compression for ignition? |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/17 at 18:21:45 Charge the battery |
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Title: Re: Brain Officially Rattled..Bike Won't Start Post by batman on 10/11/17 at 22:38:10 I'm with JOG, you need to charge a new battery fully before use, it should read about 12.5 -12.7 . the decomp doesn't work slowly,it either works (moves) or doesn't ,you can adjust it by removing the tank ,the solenoid is on the right side of the frame ,take off the rubber cap in the center, place your finger in the back and push the solenoid out toward you ,the brass shaft should stick out 3 to 5 mm. If you find it's less than 3mm your exhaust valves may be being held open all the time causing low compression. the adjustment nuts are on the bracket on the other side ,above where the cable hooks to the arm.So you have a stock petcock.the only way you'll get fuel to the carb is in the "prime" position ,unless you replace the vacuum hose. You cleaned the carb ,did you check the float height before replacing the bowl? If the float level is set to low you can have gas in the bowl but not high enough to reach the jets. good luck! |
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