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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Las Vegas...... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1506961602 Message started by raydawg on 10/02/17 at 09:26:42 |
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Title: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/02/17 at 09:26:42 This is the result of peddling hate...... Make no mistake. Focus on the gun(s) will solve nothing. This illness of hate, looks for opportunity to hurt. To extend to others, what they themselves feel/believe. Removing drugs, outlawing them, only brings about more law breakers and burdens a legal system even more, while destroying lives in the process. Do not try and fix hate, with more gun control. Try and fix whatever it is that is selling hate. Shoot those folks instead :-[ |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/02/17 at 10:03:28 Hmmm, let me think... Who has been publicly sowing hatred and division, condoning violence, stirring resentments, proffering knee-jerk attacks to anyone that disagrees with him, and unprovoked lashings out at all times of the day and night?... I'll have to Google that... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/02/17 at 10:05:14 Let me save you some trouble. Antifa |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/02/17 at 10:31:52 7167706D75606D76020 wrote:
Your blindness has created rage within your soul Bot. I am dead serious, will we be reading about you next? Your hate is that of a KKK member killing a Blackman, justified by what he believes. Your hate is that of a Christian who kills a abortion doctor. Your hate exhibits the reasoning of a member of ISIS, justifying the end game of establishing his callings.... A sane person knows that just one person can not destroy all that is right, because he was elected as president. Our system of governing has too many safe guards to avoid such a tyranny. If Trump was as evil as you want to believe, he would not be so obvious in his actions of tweeting, etc. You need to find help, I believe you are on the edge of losing reality. Turn off the news. As a alcoholic, I know my sanity rest on me not going into bars, etc, and tempting that which has the capacity to destroy me. It is not a weakness on my part, hell no, its accepting life on its own terms, and living it as such. Stay away from all that is driving your rage Bot...... GET HELP! PLEASE. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/02/17 at 10:32:32 Hate the idea that this is the world we now live in. You wake up, realize what's happening, and your heart drops to your knees... Tragic, and sickening... Happens all to often. PS... Fuk off, Dawg... get a life... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/02/17 at 10:38:22 Watch this guy turn out to be a Trump hater like our friend Sew here and selectec C&W show because he figured there'd be Trump supporters there. This story will drop off the radar quicker than the Republican baseball players getting shot. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/02/17 at 10:41:34 You guys are as low as you get... I'm done here... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/02/17 at 10:42:22 697F68756D78756E1A0 wrote:
Gotta side with Sew on this one Ray, you've got an unhealthy fascination trying to psychoanalysis him all the time. I think you're being a bit melodramatic. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/02/17 at 10:43:04 485E49544C59544F3B0 wrote:
aw.....and I just got on his side. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/02/17 at 12:18:29 635156474051467955465F340 wrote:
Gotta side with Sew on this one Ray, you've got an unhealthy fascination trying to psychoanalysis him all the time. I think you're being a bit melodramatic. [/quote] Sorry you feel that way web, its how I feel, I am not a doctor, or pretending to be one, just a caring person who cares about another. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Ruttly on 10/02/17 at 12:25:59 Who moderates a moderator ? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/02/17 at 13:06:02 What breaks my heart is to see how folks are letting others dictate to them, what truth is. The enflunces in our culture, and even the world, beyond race, religion, nationality, etc..... Is being used as a avenue to empower themselves. There will never be enough wealth for them. There will never be enough power for them. They might see their error upon their death, for none of flesh can ever escape it. But sadly too, is the collateral damage they inflicted on others while trying to grasp at a power that they could never attain. :-[ |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/02/17 at 13:35:18 Sorry Dog, but telling some one to "please get help" in all caps is worthy of a "F off" in my opinion. But what do I know... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/02/17 at 14:15:04 625057464150477854475E350 wrote:
I don't know what you don't know... Web, I can only share, firsthand, not a story written by another without knowing their motivations.... But if truth in my life. If I had not had another who didn't care about being cool, or enabling, or not hurting my feelings, I believe with all my heart, I would be dead now. They cared enough about me as a person, seeing my symptoms, to tell me I needed help. I got it, and I ain't dead. It's life, or death. If it was not an issue for me when they shared their concern, I would not have had any reason to get mad or upset, with them. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by MnSpring on 10/02/17 at 15:53:12 5B7C7D7D6570090 wrote:
LOLOLOLOL. Was thinking the SAME THING !!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Especially as a, 'Moderator', just got done saying: 'He 'Moderated' on Language, NOT, POV's'. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Again ! |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by old.indian on 10/02/17 at 16:11:17 Sad to see on the media (and here) that such a tragity has become a point for political posturing. Automatic weapons are already illegal, and have been for decades. The political posturing by Hillary etc. is simply that. Political Posturing to gain attention..... There is something in society that fosters this type of behaivor, and changeing "gun laws" is not going to influence violent behavior in Mexico, or Europe, or anywere else..... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by MnSpring on 10/02/17 at 16:12:47 “…If Trump was as evil as you want to believe, he would not be so obvious in his actions of tweeting, etc. …” Now that is a Point. ’Tweeting’, is the, Norm. Everyone does it. Now - (Didn’t used to be) It is a accepted form of Communication, (now), like Forums, Groups, FB, and others. Thinking if Trump was So, ‘Evil’, and bent on destroying this Country. (Like the, ’Snowflakes’, say every chance they can) He would, Not be, ’Tweeting’ ! ( At least he is not, ’Tweeting’, “We will Bomb you, Next Tues, at 3:52 PM, your time, at ABC by XYZ Coordinates”, like a past POTUS often did.) |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by MnSpring on 10/02/17 at 16:38:49 686B63296E69636E6669070 wrote:
Just for those that don’t know, In 1934, the NFA was passed. (National Firearms Act) (Fully Auto Firearms) In 1968, the, Gun Control Act , was implemented. It is what we live with today. Started with 3/4 of a page, (Form 4473) It is Now 6 Pages long. (The Total History is a Lot more implicated than that, but you get the gist) BUT Wait, H.R.C. SAID: ‘Anyone, can buy any gun from anybody, from anywhere, just like a teacup off, flea-bay’. (Guess she learned from, Sara Brady, Tell a LIE, LONG Enough, and Often Enough, And the people that want to Buy, ‘Ocean Front Property’, in AZ, will Believe it) |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/02/17 at 17:10:08 Who is praying for the shooter? Something broke. A small rented airplane can crash into a football game on Sunday, loaded with fuel and cause death and destruction. We have seen trucks already. It's not the weapon. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by pg on 10/02/17 at 17:18:10 764443525544536C40534A210 wrote:
You may be right.... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzO0lgvQID0[/media] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzO0lgvQID0 Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by pg on 10/03/17 at 04:24:31 Wow, it is down already. Did you see the someone recorded automatic muzzle flashes on the 3rd floor? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Eegore on 10/03/17 at 06:47:05 2334323E3121530 wrote:
I've seen 3 videos, two of which I have witnessed being fabricated to show how easy it is to start an "alternate shooter" conspiracy. One was garbage, the second was really well done. We will see a few "another shooter(s)" recordings pop up. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by T And T Garage on 10/03/17 at 11:43:40 4E5D45585D4B5B3C0 wrote:
Pray? Seriously? It IS the weapon in this case. No, you can't legislate hate - duh... But you also can't condone this guy - or any person for that matter - to have such an arsenal... Yeah, we know they're illegal... again - duh. But this country has turned a blind eye to this for too long. Had this guy been a dark-skinned (insert non-Christian religion here) - there would be travel bans up so fast your head would spin! No - this guy is being called a "lone wolf". Fuk that - this guy is a domestic terrorist. Hey - maybe we should follow tweety's thoughts and kill his whole family, huh? smh This kind of thing will happen again, and on a bigger scale. It's just a matter of time. As we see time and time again - Apathy kills. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/03/17 at 12:43:02 His weapons were already illegal...against the law. I don't own a gun, don't want to. But to blame a object is to miss the cause, in my opinion. Murder is already against the law, so in effect, it does not address the matter in a viable way. You can go off in a tangent about skin color, etc, just add more BS to an already confusing and troublesome problem.... I will chalk that up to frustration more than ignorance. This country has some serious issues plaquing it, have for a spell. This is not a Trump born issue, historical proof proves otherwise, but go ahead, plod down the same road and arguments, its working wonders ::) What seems to escape the left is that their reactions is playing into, and emboldening the right wing fringe, a real genie out of the bottle scenario. The crap I read on message boards, etc, by both sides, leaves me to believe things will get uglier, before they get better. PS: you may tell me to F off, and that web agrees with that.... :-* |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/17 at 12:53:50 TT, your door is laying in the yard. Like you, it came unhinged. You don't know squat about what weapons existed. The total number keeps changing. FFS, HOW is it that they went from ten rifles to almost THIRTY? Isn't there an information officer? I listened to some of the audio. I've shot semiautomatic rifles that fast. Not long, they get hot and wreck the barrel. Some guy, retired, pilot, owns two planes, and some apartments, suddenly goes bananas? WHY? And, who did he shoot? Country music fans. And what got the woman fired? Pointing out that they are typically republicans. And that's been my experience, too. Not a lotta lefties dig it. So, IF you are right, this home grown turrist is a lefty. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by T And T Garage on 10/03/17 at 13:00:51 25362E33362030570 wrote:
Enough ray - I could give a rats a$$... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/03/17 at 13:51:04 Cut the red tape and demagoguery then.... What can we do to stop this? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 16:14:13 A fairly simple and immediate solution, or at least a start,... would be to outlaw these $50 kits that convert semi-autos to machine guns... (Bump stocks?)... Nobody, but nobody needs a full auto machine gun in America. The founders couldn't anticipate weapons that would allow a single individual to assault 20,000 people from 1,000ft away... Killing 59 people and wounding 500 in less than 10 minutes would take an army back then. WMD's... You can't own. Full auto qualifies... This was mass destruction... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/17 at 16:30:30 You can't be taught what the Second Amendment is meant to accomplish. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 16:32:27 091610170A0D3C0C3C04161A51630 wrote:
"..that being a well regulated militia. That one?.... :-? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/17 at 16:38:30 the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." That's a statement that is very clear. The reason Why is what I've never been able to get through to you. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/03/17 at 17:21:47 5B4D5A475F4A475C280 wrote:
You once said on a different topic, they will just get a taller ladder..... They will just figure out a way to make their gun shoot faster. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 17:48:03 Then let them... at least it ain''t floatin' about for $50... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/03/17 at 18:33:43 The same rationale for no additional gun laws is the same reason the left fights so strongly against sensible abortion restrictions. You know one crack, no matter how small, will be exploited. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 18:43:13 In some ways yes,... but both abortion and gun ownership do have restrictions now... Late term abortions are severely regulated,.. as are full auto machine guns. I think we can reduce the the severity of shootings with some reasonable limits to the lethality and availability of weapons... I mean,.. let's agree... no nukes for civilians?... no missiles?... no hand grenades?... Howitzers?... machine guns?... Is there any legitimate civilian use for these things?... Remember,.. I am a gun owner... times 8!... 4 are revolvers, one bolt action... 3 semi auto 22's...two pistols one rifle none more ten 10 shot clips. I can understand some people wanting more or bigger, ... but that ends somewhere... Bikes are limited now to a ridiculously high 300kph... but they are limited... guns can't grow into cannons, missiles, etc... The 30mm cannon of an A10 does not have a practical civilian use... Can't we at least agree on that?... Compromise requires first finding the common ground, otherwise we just bang heads... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/17 at 18:57:52 Is there any legitimate civilian use for these things? Once you fully grasp WHY we are guaranteed the right to keep and bear, your answer will change. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 22:12:21 756A6C6B7671407040786A662D1F0 wrote:
You repeat yourself without adding anything to the argument. I can grasp your literal interpretation... point conceded... Now, you try to grasp mine... These men,.. lived in a different time... A literal interpretation cannot work... In their time, a slave was not a man... person without landholding could not vote... women could not vote. Arms, were muzzle loaded... ...and the ""militia" was needed to defend against invasion by King George of England.... None of this applies today... If the obvious, is no longer obvious, how can it's rules be literal?... It must be interpreted as to the intent of the writers.... The Constitution wasn’t literally written for all Americans... only for white, male, rich, landowners... Should we literally restrict gun ownership and free speech to only rich, white men?.... No,... that was not the intent... The intent was fair, free, equal, and honourable in that time... We are tasked with bringing these intentions into our world. A world they would not recognize... They did not intend to unleash the power for one man to terrorize 20,000... They intended for one man to be able to defend his ground... his property, and family... ... from King George's men... In their wildest dreams.... they didn't see, nukes, jets, television, twitter, cell phones, internet, ...or mass shootings by deranged lunatics killing innocent women and children... Imagine now,.. trying to write rules for the year 2300... Seriously,.. take a few minutes, hours, days,.. and get back to me... They relayed their intent very well... but it's not literal... I think they knew that... They weren't stupid... We need to be as brilliant as they were... Point being,... I'm trying to express... I have as much respect for these men as you do... I just think they had more respect for our understanding that they were only human, living in a time and place that dictated their language.... Peace, Serow |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/04/17 at 00:43:04 That's the Bot I remember...... ;D I agree with your assessment, however, you to fall into the trap when you say these writers were solely concerned for their own welfare. If that was the case, I believe they would have spelled it out, as in, only white man can pursue happiness... As you mention, they were constrained by their understanding of the time of which they lived, however, given how governing entities of their present situation, and around the world, from which they in a sense, escaped, and the one sidedness of all most governing powers historically, their vision was far more freedom oriented to its citizenry. The separation of powers shows how their minds worked, assuring states rights and equal representation of "minoritiy" states/regions re: people, away from a centralized dictator. But I believe this argument re: 2nd, is as misplaced as the "left" saying we don't need guns, don't make it safer, etc... While they employ bodyguards with guns. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/17 at 02:24:40 Do you understand WHY we have the Second Amendment? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/04/17 at 04:50:09 The 2nd Amendment is to protect us from our own government. That's what its for, that's what's its always been for, that's its real purpose. It's not about self defense from criminals, its not about hunting or recreational shooting, it's about the last line of defense from an oppressive government. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/04/17 at 05:05:24 Having said that, it's reasonable to restrict certain weapons and we do. The process to legally own a machine gun is difficult and expensive. This process has worked very well because I just read automatic weapons have been used 3 times since laws enacted in the 30's. I just quoting what I read yesterday, I didn't research that. By the way, my WWII reenactor brothers have both fired BARs. Freaking awesome they siad. The guy who owned it has $25k dollars into it. I'm thinking about bump stocks. Hadn't considered that before, not sure. High capacity magazines, I don't want restrictions on that, I like using mine. Besides that restriction is at best a minor inconvenience to serious killer. Finally, keep in mind there are 300 million + guns in the US today that, for practical purposes, have an unlimited shelf life. We keep hearing it's physically impossible to deport 11 million illegals who walk around and interact with other people all day, but any restrictions do nothing for those 300 million unless you think you're going to send feds out to collect them.... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/04/17 at 05:09:52 interesting turn of events if this turns out to be true. https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-in-june/ |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/17 at 05:48:13 Aggressive behavior? This required months of planning. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Ruttly on 10/04/17 at 06:53:45 There is no way to stop under the radar nut bent on killing. They will always find a way. Mowing a crowd way a truck , home made bombs , you just can't stop it ! Dozens of ways to kill , guns is only one way. It very sad & very shocking but it's the way the world is ! So basically all this talk is bullshitt. Even if all states had open carry laws passed this wood still happen but we might have more heroes ending it quicker. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/04/17 at 07:08:48 All true Rut. There are about 44 murders per day plus countless assaults with firearms and otherwise. This attack represents a bad weekend night across the country. Is that putting things into perspective or just a useless statistic? Not sure, guess it depends upon your point of view. But as someone who spends 75 to 100 nights a year in a hotel, I don't want to go through a metal detector to check into a hotel. All that does is shift the next target someplace else. We take our shoes off at an airport because of one person. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/04/17 at 07:18:01 Something else, I heard Bill O'Reily say gun deaths are the price of freedom in the US. Maybe so, but I heard a lot of people ready to crucify him over that comment. However, how many people go online and read how to commit suicide and then do it? Or how to commit fraud? How many elderly are easily robbed by being hacked? Didn't a girl 'text' her ex-boyfriend to committing suicide? Honestly, just how much more violence is there in the USA because of the immediate access information, and certainly to information that is false? Here in St Louis, we are still having protest over police shootings and much of that anger is over events that never occurred yet were widely disseminated online to a gullible audience. Hands up Don't shoot is one. In the latest case, there is a false believe of a 'kill shot' from 6" away from the victim's head that never happened. But 99% of these idiots blocking freeways here in St Louis believe it happened. Some nut is going to kill a St Louis cop and it will be because of the false news spreading. We would never consider doing away with the internet or texting because of these events which have caused more harm so why guns? Because their more visible, more easily tracked? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/17 at 07:31:57 I've been hunting for video. The audio is not what I expected. There is a heavy, slow gun that lays down a ton of fire. The shell casings in the room don't look nearly big enough to come from the gun I'm talking about. I do hear a lighter, quicker report that would agree with those casings. Yes, the floor is somewhat littered, but the number of rounds I heard would have made seeing the carpet difficult. Split the shooting between the two rooms, still should be way more spent shells. The AR is a small round. The hospital reports large caliber damage. What were the bipod equipped guns? IDK.... I want lots more information. Video of him checking in. Hauling bags. I'm supposed to believe that room service is gonna be awarded off for four days by a do not disturb sign? They can't even give a straight up answer to how many guns he had or how many minutes it lasted. I'd like to see what the bullets did when they hit the ground. That would answer some questions. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/04/17 at 07:45:08 Let the conspiracy games begin... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/17 at 07:58:03 Have you listened to any automatic fire, ever? Do you know what a high cyclic rate sounds like compared to a lower one and understand the difference? Or, are you comfortable with the Police reports STARTING at Ten Guns And now what is it? It started at four minutes. Now it's nine to eleven. Yeah, let someone else tell you what you should think. Why Not SEE what the bullet strikes look like on the ground? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by verslagen1 on 10/04/17 at 08:31:42 2E382F322A3F32295D0 wrote:
+1 about the bump stocks, no so about the rest. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/04/17 at 08:47:20 I've been hunting for video. The audio is not what I expected. There is a heavy, slow gun that lays down a ton of fire. The video I saw you can hear heavy, loud machine gun fire. A break in the action, then lower volume, but higher pitch slower firing, like a semi-auto and then a break followed by the machine gun fire again. Sound like he was moving from one window to the other and firing different guns. The shell casings in the room don't look nearly big enough to come from the gun I'm talking about. I do hear a lighter, quicker report that would agree with those casings. Yes, the floor is somewhat littered, but the number of rounds I heard would have made seeing the carpet difficult. Split the shooting between the two rooms, still should be way more spent shells. The AR is a small round. The room photos are not complete, only a couple were smuggled out. I don't think you can draw any conclusions from those. The hospital reports large caliber damage. What were the bipod equipped guns? IDK.... I want lots more information. I've not seen any hospital reports about large caliber damage. Where did you see that? Video of him checking in. Hauling bags. I'm supposed to believe that room service is gonna be awarded off for four days by a do not disturb sign? Yes, you can do that. We've had meetings in hotel rooms that we requested no service for a couple days. Never 4 days, but I'll bet that's not all that uncommon. In fact, I've been in a couple hotels where you can opt out of service for a small room discount and pick up clean towels yourself. They can't even give a straight up answer to how many guns he had or how many minutes it lasted. I listened to the sheriff's press conference yesterday and he specifically said it's not that he can't give certain information, it's that he won't. I'd like to see what the bullets did when they hit the ground. That would answer some questions. Like all instances like this, initial news reports are usually wrong. Answers will trickle out. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by MnSpring on 10/04/17 at 09:01:49 594F58455D48455E2A0 wrote:
a well regulated militia. The word, ‘Militia’, was, YOU AND ME. Not what it means today The word, ‘Regulated’, was that group, that town, that Township, (whatever the group was), HAD the SAME, sized ammunition, so anyone could use anyone else’s supply. Not what it means today The word, ‘GAY’, Was that a person was HAPPY, all the time. Not what it means today. So because the meaning of a word has changed, YOU, have decided the Meaning, of a word, in a statement that word is used in, has changed ???? The 2nd is to make sure the 1st Stays. And Not from the King, but from H.R.C. Saying: ‘He used a Gun’, (So we have to BAN GUNS) IS EXACTLY, the same as. “‘Someone Robed a Bank and they had a Red Car” “So let’s BAN, ‘Red’ Cars, and their will be, NO More Bank Robberies”. !!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas......r: Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/17 at 09:02:00 Search number of guns paddock had in his motel room Yeah, great reporting |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by verslagen1 on 10/04/17 at 09:14:02 3224332E36232E35410 wrote:
The times are a changing, once again old threats are new again. In their time it was expected that a "militia" could be formed at a ring of a bell to respond to an attack by an outside force. And the people were expected to know how to fire a weapon. They lived in a land where a threat whether it be man or beast could appear in a heart beat. In our time, beasts still roam the land even in my neighborhood bears can present themselves without warning. And jihadi's can arise at a whim with illegally modified weapons banned in California and purchased by stawmen. Should I only be limited to muzzle loaded weapons because that's what the founders had? Get real, we don't live on an island where arms can be limited. National confiscation would do no good, we would be at risk to a reverse fast and furious. And with a border so porous that illegals cross at will, how will you prevent the cartel from doing what they do? And limiting to muzzle loaders would defeat the intent that the populous be skilled in the operation of weapons. These skills can only be had by experience. And yes, leadership should be afraid of a populous wronged. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/04/17 at 09:39:40 5E6C6B7A7D6C7B44687B62090 wrote:
Yes, you are right, however I read it as a "state militia" against the tyranny of a centralized (federal) power. You couple that with why these men so struggled with separation ( of powers) and how this very 3 tiered goverment almost stopped the United States from ever being realized. This was the single most obstacle these men argued/debated over in drafting our founding laws.... It was decided after one person switched their vote, to allow only two senators, per state. It took months, and mostly accredited to a very frail Ben Franklin, who swayed these men we needed this separation. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/04/17 at 09:52:34 Read the Federalist Papers and other writings of the time. There's simply no misunderstanding the intent of the 2nd amendment. We have the right to arm ourselves to protect us from the Federal Government. And if you go down the road of State Militias and thinking the individual states can arm themselves, that ship sailed a long time ago when the 10th Amendment has all but been ignored. In other words, Missouri's national guard is not a state militia in that sense. Regarding muzzle loaders, it's worth pointing out that at the time, the citizens and armies had mostly equal weapons. No, they couldn't have foreseen AR-15's, but a citizenry armed with AR15's, shotguns, hunting rifles etc... can defend themselves against a modern army. Don't think so? Why couldn't the Russians and later the US crush the enemy in Afghanistan all those years ago? Unless you're willing to bomb cities into dust, armed civilians could defend the US. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Ruttly on 10/04/17 at 10:17:08 We should be a heavily armed country or heavier armed. All the criminals have them and so should the law abiding citizens, open carry for 50 states and watch the crime rate spike and then drop off when criminals figure out we shoot back! Watch how fast people learn to act right ! And any country dumb enough to try and invade ! As much as I hate it , Las Vegas is a fact of life , this is what it is ! Goes back to that nut on a roof in Texas way back in the sixties !!! It's nothing new it just happens far too often !!! |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Eegore on 10/04/17 at 15:59:15 Anyone that's spent any time in urban combat will tell you that you aren't going to make an accurate assessment of weapon type due to echo alone, let alone deciphering it on a recording that is not even near the weapon(s) being used. Gun range Rangers have a ton of knowledge about guns until its used against them. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas......r: Post by MnSpring on 10/04/17 at 19:45:16 6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:
Watching the, ‘Broadcast’, News on TV last night, Not ONE, said the same thing. Looking at the Web this morning, not ONE, ’News’, source, said the same thing. Probably going to be the same thing as, totally knowing what is at, ‘Area 51’. Just ain’t gonna happen. But of course, if the, ‘reporting’, fits the, ’spin’, (Or POV), of the person reporting. Do everything, the, ’News’, places can do, to make you, ‘Believe’, what they want you to. Instead of, reporting, “FACTS”, and let, YOU, Decide. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/17 at 21:28:44 But I'm supposed to believe what I'm told, or I'm a conspiracy theorist. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/17 at 04:56:31 After events like this, 50% of what's reported is wrong. Think back on 9/11 and the first week or so afterwards, practically nothing that was reported was right. Think about it, you have to go on air and fill time, you gotta say something. Like MnSpring noted, there are all kinds of contradictions in reports already. Someone already posted an edited video trying to show a second shooter out of a lower window. It was an obvious fake. Why would anybody do that? There were faked 9/11 videos as well. WTF?.... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/17 at 07:50:15 The number of guns in the fukkin ROOM is too much to ask? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/17 at 08:30:58 Not at all, fair to ask. I'm not sure if they've said yet, have they? I've heard multiple numbers. 13 I think is what I heard, may be more. Easy to bring a 100 guns to a hotel room if you wanted, especially in Vegas. You can golf there 365 days a year and I'll bet I could get half dozen rifles in my golf hard case. In fact, one time I was going on an extended trip and I loaded by hard case with regular luggage that would have taken 3 suitcases. No one would noticed multiple trips up and down to your room with golf case. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/05/17 at 08:53:40 Also, lots of conventions in Vegas,... many product reps keep a lot of stuff in their hotel rooms... big stuff... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/17 at 09:23:08 So I'm alone in saying I'm the only one who could have walked in there and accurately inventoried the number of rifles, pistols, shotguns.. Everyone else is too stupid to count and write down the number and type of weapon. The number of each type of brass on the floor. Gee, would that matter? Would to me. I'd have pictures of the glass on the ground and any casings that managed to eject forward. Rare, but it happens. If you guys were the boss, you'd be okay with the results of the reporting? Not me. Just because it's BEEN thedrizzlingshits for years doesn't make it okay. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/05/17 at 09:29:29 I'm sure the police have the number of guns and shells inventoried by now,. and that number will probably be released eventually just for the morbidly curious... ...and I'm sure you and the conspiracy talk folk will find something wrong with the total... Ever think that's why they don't release them?... So as not to feed these conspiracies?... Is duck ever just a duck? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/17 at 09:34:46 Changing the numbers is not feeding doubt, is it? You're saying that they provide Bullshit that changes, otherwise, conspiracy theorists will erupt in doubt. Really? Read what you say, man. Geeze Louise, that's nuttier that squirrel sh!t. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/05/17 at 09:38:15 From the police investigation: “What we know is Stephen Paddock is a man who spent decades acquiring weapons and ammo and living a secret life, much of which will never be fully understood,” the sheriff said. He was bent early on, decades ago he started on a mission, perhaps. Evil can never be harnessed, only destroyed when it reveals itself. I no doubt evil exists, just as the Holy Spirit does in my life. I wasn't evil, prior to being saved, but I was a leaf blowing in the wind. It sounds stupid, extremely weak, but I sense its the truth, as I reflect back upon that person (me).... Circumstance influenced me greatly, and if I was in a certain state of body and mind, I am sure another person could have taken advantage of that...... You might question what I say, fair enough, but look honestly how we are influenced, and controlled, by what others say and do, politicians, and the media, being two examples. Americans have led a pretty sheltered existence when compared to this world. I have talked with many who grew up in other countries around the world. It is one of the perks working for a large company that likes diversity of work force. The stories of just living, daily, how death was just a norm, and that no one was granted any exemptions from its visit, boggles my mind. Anyway, before I started rambling..... See Bot, I bet folks would rather I only drive by :D I was wondering how can we ever expect to stop such evil, if we are to remain free? Its a loaded question, I know, its a balance we seek, but goodness, this man appears to have started on some journey, decades ago, we can never have such resources to ensure stuff like that never happens. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/17 at 09:49:58 People who enjoy collecting and shooting don't keep it a secret from Everyone. Unless they are collecting and practicing for some illegal purpose. I'm supposed to believe that this guy was planning a mass murder for YEARS? Really? And nobody had a clue.. Yeah,, right.. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/17 at 09:52:15 Did the sheriff release the number of guns in the room or did he say he wouldn't confirm the number reported in the press? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/05/17 at 09:53:15 47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:
Coming from a guy that thinks the moon landings didn't happen makes it meaningless... ;D |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/17 at 09:54:55 Couldn't confirm Which number in the press? I'm supposed to believe the reporters just pulled numbers out their asses? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/05/17 at 10:03:08 23 in hotel 19 at home 47 total from 3 locations,.. third local unspecified 33 purchased in last 12 months audible fire rate 9 rounds per second |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/17 at 10:06:54 Yesterday, Las Vegas police in a press conference said they found a total of 47 guns in hotel room. During press conference the day before, the sheriff said "more than 10". I saw a press conference he gave earlier and you can tell he hates reporters. He specifically said one time "I may say I don't know when I do know but I'm protecting the investigation " Honestly i don't see anything unusual about the news coming out on this story. Half is wrong at first and gradually corrected. And yes, you should believe reporters pull numbers out of their a$$es. happens all the time. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/17 at 10:36:52 Would someone explain how it could possibly compromise the investigation to accurately report the number of guns in the room? Maybe they can explain how someone managed to mount two cameras in a hallway of a casino motel, where people come and go twenty four hours a day. Whooped out the ladder and screwdriver did he? Protecting the investigation? Bullshit.. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by verslagen1 on 10/05/17 at 10:46:51 47 total at the 3 locations more than 10 in the room my guess, 8 or so rifles, 4 handguns in the course of the night, some had jammed. they also said he planned to excape I would think the only way out once discovered would be to repel out the window. with the tannerite in the car, a shoot out would of been disastrous. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/17 at 11:34:34 46595F5845427343734B59551E2C0 wrote:
What's bull$hit? Information changing the first days of a major investigation? That's more certain than the sun rising in the east. I don't know how or why it would compromise the investigation, I can only tell you what the sheriff said. Regardless, the information was released by the Las Vegas police department later on which I assume is different from the sheriff's department. Like I said, it was clear the sheriff loaths reporters. Could you mount a camera outside your room without anyone knowing? Sure you could. Wireless camera held up with two sided tape. No one would notice. Apparently he did. I don't know if the MB has a camera system looking down each hallway. Even if they did, it's used to review after the fact, no in real time. I think that hotel has at least 40 floors, no one watches all those floors at once. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/17 at 11:36:21 I would think the only way out once discovered would be to repel out the window. I can't see a 60+ year old man repelling 32 stories down the outside of a glass hotel. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/17 at 11:43:47 You're Alone. In a casino. People come and go at all hours. Getting Seen sticking a camera up just might compromise the mission, no? All that planning and risk it all, twice, sticking cameras up, without anyone who could cover you at all.. tape, just slapped on a wall, I'm sure they are good and clean up at the top.. sounds risky.. I'm not aware of How they were mounted,, might compromise the Whole investigation to let that out. If that's reasonable to believe, a hand operated drill and camera through the wall would be. Where they were would be interesting. But, probably shut the investigation down completely. Can't have that. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/17 at 12:06:24 647B7D7A6760516151697B773C0E0 wrote:
Wait a second buddy,..... I've been down 9/11 theories with you for weeks on end and have dozens of times mentioned for your theory to be valid, hundreds of people would have to know and numerous bottlenecks existed that if anyone were caught, would end the entire operation. You rejected all those questions. Perhaps this guy put the cameras up just minutes before he began firing. I'm not looking for conspiracies or second shooters etc.... I'm letting the evidence I have access to point to a reasonable explanation. I haven't seen on any video or recording anything that would lead me to believe anything other than the most likely explanation; that a strange man who's lived a strange life went off the deep end. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by verslagen1 on 10/05/17 at 12:12:16 063433222534231C30233A510 wrote:
Well I would expect to walk into an elevator or go down the stairs as nearly impossible. And I don't think there's any special physical requirements to repel down the side of a building. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/17 at 12:27:48 Supposedly the room service cart outside the room had a camera on it and the door peephole. Mention of a baby monitor with camera, just caught the tail end when I went to the shop. Inventory of the car that had Ten pieces of luggage in it also included packages of tannerite totaling fifty pounds and 1600 bullets, caliber not reported. Those hundreds of injuries are surely not all gunshot wounds, but trampled by panicked, falling, etc.. Knowing how many people were actually hit versus injured getting away would be great. Anyone have any idea what kinda car he had? |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by Serowbot on 10/05/17 at 12:51:40 NRA comes out in favor of restrictions on bump stocks https://www.yahoo.com/news/nra-white-house-congress-support-review-lawfulness-bump-stocks-190949986.html The White House and National Rifle Association both came out in favor of reviewing regulations of bump fire stocks, the device that contributed to the deaths of 58 people in the Las Vegas mass shooting Sunday night. “The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations,” said the NRA in a statement released Thursday afternoon, its first public comments since the shooting. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/05/17 at 13:11:03 That is awesome news...... |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by raydawg on 10/05/17 at 13:12:55 We have always heard, Follow the money.... You don't win BIG money playing video poker. I think if we find the money trail, we find some answers. |
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Title: Re: Las Vegas...... Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/17 at 13:16:25 495F48554D58554E3A0 wrote:
Quick; buy stock in those companies cause there's gonna be a run on them... |
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