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Message started by juggaloscorpio on 09/17/17 at 10:31:37

Title: Newbie to the group
Post by juggaloscorpio on 09/17/17 at 10:31:37

2006 Savage S40 with 12,881 miles

I recently bought it for $500(not running), i bought a battery and have put $200 in a carb clean/rebuild with new needle and seat. The shop told me the OEM petcock had a slight leak and overflowed into the crankcase(fixed when the carb got rebuilt). I just got done replacing the petcock with the yamaha raptor 660/vacuum delete. I also added an in-line fuel filter. I drained it yesterday and finished doing an oil change today along with a new oil filter(drained a little over a gallon of mostly gas out of the crankcase). It now starts and idles but it seems to want to die when I go to put it into first gear. Any suggestions on what to look at? Should I go ahead and put a new plug in it since I just got the gas and oil situations fixed(haven't checked the plug for fouling yet).

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/17 at 10:38:42

If the sidestand is down its gonna die when you put it in gear.
The added fuel filter is liable to cause problems.
What oil did you use?

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by juggaloscorpio on 09/17/17 at 23:25:52

Valvoline 4 stroke for motocycles... I have asked my other biker guys about adding the zddp and got mixed opinions so I haven't done that yet... I am going to adjust the upper end of the valves soon and was thinking of changing the plug since it will be exposed anyways. I also have a mysterious leak coming from somewhere around the main cylinder body so that will be addressed at some point soon too.

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by Dave on 09/18/17 at 03:57:48

544B59595F52514D5D514C4E57513E0 wrote:

Valvoline 4 stroke for motocycles... I have asked my other biker guys about adding the zddp and got mixed opinions so I haven't done that yet....

Your other biker guys probably don't know anything about what the Savage engine needs to survive - this forum has years of experience and we know what is required to keep your Savage happy. Our recommendations are based on lots of cams/rockers ruined from running oil that has a low ZDDP level.

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/18/17 at 15:50:09

Dump the oil.
Get Rotella 15-40.
No need to swap the filter.
Letting it idle on the sidestand starves the high end of the cam for oil.
Don't do that.

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by juggaloscorpio on 09/19/17 at 11:10:55

746B6D6A7770417141796B672C1E0 wrote:

Letting it idle on the sidestand starves the high end of the cam for oil.
Don't do that.

I didn't realize this was an issue, I am a fresh newbie as this is my first bike but I have seen so many people just let their bikes idle while on the kickstand/sidestand. Is this because it is a single cylinder motor with low oil pressure?

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by juggaloscorpio on 09/19/17 at 11:12:58

"Your other biker guys probably don't know anything about what the Savage engine needs to survive - this forum has years of experience and we know what is required to keep your Savage happy. Our recommendations are based on lots of cams/rockers ruined from running oil that has a low ZDDP level."

I would hate to just dump the $17 worth of new oil I just put in it, can I just add some zddp additive for now and get the Rotella 15-40 on next oil change? and I saw that there are 2 different types of Rotella 15-40, one is T3 and one is T4, which do I get?

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by juggaloscorpio on 09/19/17 at 11:15:44

3A252324393E0F3F0F37252962500 wrote:

If the sidestand is down its gonna die when you put it in gear. The added fuel filter is liable to cause problems.

I did as told not to do and didnt have it full on gas and that is why it was dying on me.... I am a dummy... and from what I can tell, the in-line filter isn't causing any flow restrictions or issues so far.

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by verslagen1 on 09/19/17 at 11:46:49

67786A6A6C61627E6E627F7D64620D0 wrote:

T4.

Valvoline is good oil... but you need to look up what is exactly in the one you got and that's the hard part.
T4 is the easy part, we know what's in it, a dash of this and it's great.
T6 was on the list, but they've added moly which is killing our clutches so it's off the list now.
You want to use that favor of valvoline, great, but check out the oil analysis or you'll be doing extra work.

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by Dave on 09/19/17 at 12:04:30

6F70626264696A76666A77756C6A050 wrote:

There are 2 issues at work. At idle the engine doesn't provide a lot of oil pressure or flow, and on the sidestand the camshaft is tilted with the oil input on the downhill side......it is believed that the small amount of flow doesn't make it uphill to the exhaust cam lobe and rocker. You can get by with a little bit of this - but it seems folks who start their bike up in the winter to charge the battery and let it idle for 20-30 minutes......end up ruining their cams and rockers. It is best to get on the bike, stand it upright, pull up the kickstand, turn on the key, and start the bike. After 20-30 seconds of warming up - pull in the clutch, put the bike in gear, and ride off. Be a bit gentle on the engine until the bike is fully warmed up.....a cold clutch can slip as the oil is still thick between the clutch plates.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1447331708

The problem with the inline filters, is that the thick plastic nipples severely limit the flow, and they can trap air bubbles that block the flow of fuel. The small opening in the little plastic filters only have about 1/3rd the opening area that the tubing has. Your petcock has a filter......the carb has s filter above the needle/seat.....why do you believe you need a third one?
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1211846392/15

The Rottella 15W-40 oil is the T4 oil.

If your Valvoline oil is this one......it appears that the ZDDP level is a bit lower than the 1,200 - 1,400 that we believe is adequate. Valvolien lists the ZDDP level at 1030ppm (0.103%). At $17 for 2 quarts....that is pretty expensive stuff.

Use this link, and go to the PI sheet to see what is in the oil.
https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/motor-oil/4-stroke-motorcycle-oil

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by juggaloscorpio on 09/19/17 at 15:02:51

Thanks guys for the info, I will have to wait for the oil replacement until next weekend but will do as you guy suggest and go with the T4 Rotella 15-40.

I was not aware that there is a filter in the carb, but I have seen others install the in-line filter and figured for $2 it couldnt hurt, this could be why she has been dying when coming down from "highway" speed to in town speed. I have plenty of fuel hose leftover and will take the filter off to see if that helps.

Good to know about the upright idle/warm up, I have only had her running for a couple of days now and have started her up while I get my helmet and gloves on, or about 3mins total(do people actually wear this stuff every time haha)

The oil replacement might have to wait for now because more importantly on my repair/replacement list are front brake pads and fork rebuilding/seal replacement(they are as soft as a wet sponge and you cannot control her at 60mph in this pothole haven).

Title: Re: Newbie to the group
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/17 at 16:54:58

Low idle speed
And
Quick chop of the throttle will cause it to flame out.
Low idle is really not healthy.
Other stuff can contribute to it shutting off, but those two are most common and easiest to solve.