|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 50/50 Lemon? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1503509682 Message started by lilttlefoot on 08/23/17 at 10:34:42 |
|
Title: 50/50 Lemon? Post by lilttlefoot on 08/23/17 at 10:34:42 Hello, My husband and I bought 2 new 2017 S40s, last spring. We are very new to motorcycling (just got our licenses in April) and I had never even driven a stick shift car before. Since the day we received our bikes, my bike hasn't been behaving the same way as my husband's bike. At first, we both thought it was because I am a crappier rider than he is and that it would get better with time, as I got better. We have now switched bikes frequently enough that both of us know that my bike is just not running the same way. Riding his is SO much easier :/ These were supposed to be 2 of the exact same bike but they feel like completely different ones. How can we make my bike run more like his? 1) Mine dies right after start up -so now I turn the throttle like a milli-second after the start, and hold it there for 5-10 seconds to get it to get past that point where it wants to die on me, but sometimes it still dies anyway. My garage owner, who is a sportbike enthusiast thinks my idle is set too low (not even sure what that means, how to fix it, and if that would solve this problem) and says it's an easy fix, I could do. Is there a picture by picture tutorial of this somewhere? 2) While it gets a little better/less frequent after the bike has warmed up, the bike is REALLY lurchy in first gear. At first, we both thought it was because I suck as a rider. We called the dealer about it and he wants us to bring the bike back to check it but he's so far away that we are planning to wait to our 500 mile service to bring them both back, at the same time. Is there an easy fix for something like this, that I could do? Or should we just tow it to the dealer, now? I have ridden enough on it by now, that I don't feel the same pants wetting panic that I did the first few rides but it's still not a great feeling when I'm on it and we spend half our time in 1st gear (city riding). 3) We have to shift between 1 and 2nd gears at different speeds. My first gear is about 0-18/20 mph before I feel like the bike is asking to switch to second. His bike does about 0-15mph and asks for second gear faster/earlier than mine. The few times that I've manged to switch to 2nd gear and it "felt/sounded right" at 15 is when I'm twisting the throttle really hard/accelerating fast. 4) My clutch engages WAY later than my husband's bike, so my friction zone is much smaller in comparison to his bike. Can we fix this or is this better to ask the dealer, too? 5) Backfires for almost every time I pull the clutch for braking. I have realized that PART of the backfire problem is something I am doing wrong when I ride because when I ride my husband's bike, I make it backfire more frequently than when he rides his bike. He also backfires my bike, less than I do BUT my bike still backfires more than his bike, no matter who is riding it. Assuming that the backfiring can be adjusted by a change to my riding style, what am I doing wrong to make it backfire more than someone else? 6) Squeally brakes (though I see from the forum, it's a common problem- so I guess I'll just be glad they work.) TL;DR: We bought 2 of the same 2017 S40s. 1 handles way different from the other. Are these reasonably fixable issues for complete newbies to fix or is one just a lemon? |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by zipidachimp on 08/23/17 at 11:36:20 Oh my! where do I start. All of your issues are fixable, but on new bikes will likely void any warranty. I always buy used bikes so warranty is never an issue. Spend a day reading past postings in RSD and you must read the TECH section. Answers are available, leading to really enjoyable bikes. Hang in there! It gets better! 8-) Best to solve one issue at a time. |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by Eegore on 08/23/17 at 11:55:48 I'm no expert but I'd say your issues are related to "tuning" and making general adjustments, so I'd say its not a lemon. To me a lemon would be a bike assembled incorrectly, versus one that needs the idle increased (literally you just turn a screw) or other such mild adjustments. Dealers don't seem to know much about these bikes so you are in the right place. Read the Tech section, the Things every new Savage owner must know etc. It gets easier fast. |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by jcstokes on 08/23/17 at 12:09:31 I don't know how far away the dealer is, but if you are uncomfortable on the bike, your husband could ride it there, or the dealer should send someone to collect it. If you wanted to adjust the idle mixture screw, you will have to remove a pressed in brass plug this could lead to warranty issues. You can adjust the throttle stop and increase your idle speed by looking for a screw with a spring on it on the carburettor. Check your tyre pressure. You may need to buy a small valve extension to do the rear, these are cheap and must be remove after inflation. Have your garage man just look at the rear shock settings to make sure they are the same on both sides of the bike |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by zipidachimp on 08/23/17 at 12:37:48 Also, have a look at 'Bike Builds" in RSD to see how much fun you can have once the warranty runs out. These are really fun bikes that require a little work on your part. Try and match the idle speed to the good bike, ride until the warranty period is over, then the fun starts! The backfiring issue is related to the factory 'lean' setttings on the carb and are easily fixed! Use the key to shut off the bike, not the emergency stop button. 8-) |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by Dave on 08/23/17 at 12:42:21 Let your friend turn up the idle a little bit....it is easy to to and the idle speed adjustment screw even has a knob to allow you to do that without any tools. That may help resolve the starting and backfire issues. Take your bike to the dealer, and give them a chance to fix it. They can adjust the clutch, and hopefully diagnose the running issues. Once your bike is out of warranty - we can help you with the jetting changes that will make the bike run really smoooooooooth! Where do you live.....maybe an experienced forum member is just around the corner from you. |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/23/17 at 12:48:33 Wrong fuel/air mix = backfire Exhaust leak = bAckfire Easy check, gently snug the header to jug bolts. Only on a cold engine and be gentle. A1/4" drive ratchet and just thumb on its head and fingers closing to turn it. A wimpy fifth grader can twist it off. Adjust idle up Left side of carburetor Knurled headed screw with the spring Twist CW a coupla turns and see what happens. Season to taste. The bikes vary widely in their manners from the factory. Thankfully you got one that's good to compare the other to. It's a rare dealership that has mechanics who really know these bikes. We've seen engines destroyed by oil changes at dealerships. They put the oil filter in backwards. If the backfire issue isn't affected by snugging the bolts at the head, check around the muffler to header. Don't leave it idling leaning on the sidestand, but use a candle or read up on how to detect a n air leak. If neither of those affect the issue, I would be looking at the idle air mixture. Cover that later. You're probably closing the gas to change gears. Just ease off the gas a bit Squeeze the clutch Click the shifter Relax the fingers As you come back on the gas Work with that till you don't let it rev up and or slip the clutch. The quicker you do it, the easier it is. How much can you move the clutch lever before you feel the resistance of the clutch? You should be able to walk up, lay a finger on it, and slip a nickel in the joint between the lever and it's mount. |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by batman on 08/23/17 at 13:01:18 Have you tried using the choke? it's the black "button" on the carb ,it has two positions when you pull it out halfway and full.you might need to use it when first starting the bike (cold) .the idle speed is adjusted by the screw just below the choke, with the spring around it ,clockwise to increase the idle speed ,and vise versa.You should get a Clymer's manual or look at sites like Ron Ayers .com for views of the bikes parts and locations. The idle speed can be set by getting the motor fully warmed up, finding a flat level road and adjusting the idle screw so that the bike moves along at about 8 mph with the throttle closed and the clutch fully engaged. the clutch is adjusted at the lever where the cable exits ,under the rubber boot there is a round locking nut ( about the size of a quarter) loosen it and adjust the center screw to give a slight bit of play in the lever,when fully released .(about 1 mm). |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by verslagen1 on 08/23/17 at 13:09:50 595C414159505C5B5E4C350 wrote:
On the left side of the carb there's a knurled screw that controls the idle speed. if you can't find it, look in the tech section index (link below) for carb 101 then scroll down till you find the right pic. As a beginner, you'll like the idle speed a little high. Quote:
could be idle speed, could be clutch adjustment. Quote:
could be idle speed, could be clutch adjustment. Quote:
if you can't adjust this out using the knob on the clutch lever then you'll need to take it to the dealer. Adjust the clutch play until you have at least 1/8" gap between the lever and the perch. Quote:
could be loose header bolts or muffler clamp, torque the header bolts to 20 ftlbs. Quote:
yes a general problem caused by moisture or dirt, both are easy to fix. wash with soap and water. dry as you normally would. final dry takes a few braking sessions just like when they taught you how to emergency brake in the safety class. You want to heat up the brake to drive off any moisture. Since you are new, I would progressively brake harder to get the feel for the brakes any way. This works for both front and back, and you need to learn how to get the max out of them any way. Find a straight lonely road and take her up to 20-30 mph then practice. After a dozen times the brakes should be hot and completely dry. |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by stewmills on 08/23/17 at 13:10:32 See here in the image. This knurled screw, which you can turn by hand, sets the idle. Clockwise for higher idle. If ever in question, higher is better than lower with these bikes for many reasons we won't bore you with while you are learning your way around. You DON'T want a low loping idle like you hear on a Harley. Here is a video that claims it is 1050 RPM. Personally I think it is a bit lower than we would suggest so for reference, yours should be like this or a tad higher. Personally I idle around 1400RPM. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91njcw1U404 All of the other things are completely normal (unfortunately) for these bikes and are very easily fixed with very simple modifications once you are out of your warranty period. Once we can help you with these things you will really love this bike! As noted, give the dealer an opportunity to make any efforts to correct some of the issues under warranty so someone is accountable until your warranty expires. Once you get to any point of the dealer trying to charge you ANYTHING, COME HERE AND ASK FIRST. Dealers know little to nothing about these bikes despite what they try to claim (usually let the rookies work on these small and simple bikes) and you should not be used as a training ground to let someone "TRY" to fix your bike while you are paying for their motorcycle repair training. Hang in there...It'll get better! |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/23/17 at 13:38:00 Yes, the experts on these bikes are here. The dealership mechanics don't work on such antiquated designs often. They don't even know what oil to use in them. Rotella T 15/40.. |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by lilttlefoot on 08/23/17 at 14:16:35 You guys are awesome!!! OK, I will be playing with the idle speed (thank you stewmills for the clearly labeled picture!!!) and trying to get it higher to start and then see what it changes or doesn't change from there!! I am hopeful it will help alleviate a lot of these problems. If not, I know where to come back to, to ask! :) THANK YOU!!!! |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by Tocsik on 08/23/17 at 14:39:25 Definitely check/compare the idle speeds of the bikes when they are warm. If the one running poor has a lower idle speed, raise it up to match. A low idle speed is not good for the primitive oiling mechanism for the cam at the top of the motor. Raising the idle speed can actually decrease a little of the backfire at shift points too. Be sure you don't idle either bike for a long period on the sidestand. Again, the primitive oiling of the cam won't do a good job at lower RPM's at that lean angle. Also wondering (please chime in here experts) if the bike not running well could actually be suffering from either an improperly installed carb diaphragm at the factory or a tear in it. Or even a prematurely failing vacuum petcock. |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/23/17 at 15:13:20 Idling on the sidestand starves the cam for oil. No, not Camphor oil.. |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by jcstokes on 08/23/17 at 22:41:09 Some other thoughts, the rear brake on these bikes is prone to lock up in a harsh braking situation, so be careful. When you got your licenses, did you do the American MSF course? If you didn't, it's probably worth the money. The standard IRC tyres, aren't gods gift to tyres, there's some debate here about this, but I never liked the rear from day one and it never liked tar snakes or wet roads. Don't panic over this, wear it out, but be extra careful in the wet. The front one is reasonable. If you are in an area which precludes winter riding, perhaps learn to remove the battery during this period, so it can be kept charged and ready for spring/summer riding. Try and get as much mileage up as you can before winter sets in. Your maximum comfortable fuel range, including reserve, will be about 120 miles, after that start praying and at 130 miles pray very hard. |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by tomatolord on 08/25/17 at 08:02:18 did your bike have any miles on it? MAYBE - it just sat a while with gas in it and it just needs to be cleaned out? Since its in warranty I would take it back to dealer and have them tune it up. I would not ride an twitchy bike 500 miles but hey that's me. Or Bite the bullet and learn to wrench it your selves because in the long run you are NOT going to be driving 500 miles for fixes or any other issues. Me I have a local bike guy that anything I cant do I work with him to do it. Tomatolord. |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon- MOSTLY RESOLVED Post by lilttlefoot on 09/25/17 at 10:23:35 So I just wanted to close the loop on this thread and report back that changing the idle speed made a WORLD of a difference!!! It pretty much solved problem 1, just a little gas after starting if it has been cold for a week or more. #2 is much less lurchy (though still a bit but it doesn't scare nearly as much as it used to! so I'll consider that almost fixed). #3 I now shift into second a bit lower, like my husband's bike between 1 and 2nd gears. The higher gears there is still a bit of a discrepancy but it's totally ok to me. #4, I think I will have to take to a dealer to check out further but it is not preventing me from riding. #5, yeah- they both still backfire a lot but mine is backfiring less, now. #6, we took them on a 180 mile r/t journey and during that time the brakes started off squealy, grew quiet and now squeal again. BUT they dont' squeal quite as loud so I'll take it! Thank you all for responding so clearly to my post. Just that one little screw turn has made a huge difference on my bike and I felt confident enough to take her out on a longer trip! :D |
|
Title: Re: 50/50 Lemon? Post by HAPPYDAN on 09/26/17 at 20:05:24 My 2012 left me frustrated for some time with lurching, backfiring, and rough idle. Here they talk about the idle mix screw under a sealed brass cap. Don't void your warranty, but that cap needs to be removed and the mix properly set. The factory leans these bikes out really far to meet emission requirements. I ran mine at half-choke for a long time which really helped. If you can only get E10 gas, consider adding a fuel stabilizer like STA-BIL at every fill-up. It helps a bunch and really reduces the backfiring. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |