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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Top speed observations /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1500993920 Message started by Eegore on 07/25/17 at 07:45:20 |
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Title: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 07/25/17 at 07:45:20 I finally got all three of my bikes in the same spot this morning and did some top-speed runs. 1995 modified - raptor petcock/straight pipe (maybe, its not as loud as the other straight pipe) has had less and less performance. Topped out at 58 today. 1995 all stock except raptor petcock - topped out at 71 1995 with stock pipe bolted on, then a run with a straight pipe. - topped out at 72 with exhaust, 70 with straight pipe. I was informed that a stock savage will do 80-90 but it looks like every one I have is definitely slower than that. Speeds recorded on GPS and tripod mounted radar. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by stewmills on 07/25/17 at 08:06:57 Yeah, that doesn't sound right. Is a 400lb gorilla driving the bike? I have never ridden mine at top speed. I do know I have pushed it as far as about 80mph last year and that definitely wasn't all she had, but it was all I was brave enough to do. With the KAW front pulley, we topped out at about 75mph this weekend on the larger roads and I was usually in 4th gear doing that! No telling what it'll to in 5th on a flat road but I'd be willing to bet I could hit 90mph easy if I wasn't too chicken. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/17 at 08:07:45 If you're going to be scientific about it, Elevation, temperature and humidity affect the carburetion. Different years had different jetting to accommodate the EPA, and I don't know what years had what jets. Knowing what the wind is doing matters, How many square inches of frontal area Your body is making it work to drag you through the ocean of air, how you ride matters. The buckhorns invite us to catch a ton of air, the drag bars hold us lower and make getting small easier. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 07/25/17 at 08:18:54 No idea what the jets are, I don't work on them but I can have someone look into it. The slowest bike has drag bars, but it obviously has other problems. The rest are buckhorns. There was pretty much no wind this morning and I weigh 160lbs. My heaviest driver is 170, lightest 125lbs, there really isn't much difference in speed based off the rider from what I know. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by verslagen1 on 07/25/17 at 08:32:09 80 to 88 depending on day... uphill, stock pipe/ drilled out stock pipe/ supertrapp. stock filter/K&N. re-jetted of course. Windshield/sportshield/cut sportshield/flyshield. And I ain't no light weight. lets not talk about beast. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/17 at 08:32:52 All else being equal, whatever rider is on a drag bar setup should be faster than the same rider on buckhorn bars. Miles add up, cam chain wears, the cam timing lags. If you can find someone who has a Dyna you might have a way to test them AND tune them out right. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/25/17 at 09:26:50 I know you or someone likes to tinker with your bikes, so I don't know the exact gearing or tire sizes for the bikes, but it would appear that your engines only make between 4,000 and 4,500 rpm. Something is very wrong. Either you are in the 300+ pound club or your mechanic doesn't know how to jet a carburetor. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 07/25/17 at 10:23:28 I'm not sure what the issue is, on the very slow bike it has been deteriorating for a while, I have a 150/90 tire. The other two are stock and I haven't had anything done to them except one had the exhaust pulled off for this mornings ride. If it weren't for this forum I'd assume these bikes run 75 top speed and weren't intended for highways. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/25/17 at 10:46:54 A well tuned bike should be able to reach 5,000 to almost 5,500 rpm. This would yield a top end in the high 80's. What was the air temp on this day? What is the elevation? What are you running for an air filter? OEM or modified. Is the filter clean? How much do you weigh? An open pipe will not make enough horsepower. Take the quietest pipe and put it on the faster bike to see if it helps With stock jetting and a modified pipe, a result in the mid 70's doesn't surprise me. Due to the taller gearing, a wheezing engine will have trouble turning a tire with a larger circumference. You may find a faster top speed in 4th gear. I'd suggest that the time has come for you to learn some carb maintenance. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by ohiomoto on 07/25/17 at 11:49:08 I doubt my bike will go much over 80mph with my 250lb, 6'3" fat ass on it. I still think it's jetted rich, but haven't had time to tune it much. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/17 at 12:01:30 circumference. You may find a faster top speed in 4th gear. That's something to look at. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by MMRanch on 07/25/17 at 18:24:23 I'm 200 lb… jets are 152…5 / 50 … /air box cover removed / 12 inch shorty muffler w/home made baffle and the Kawasaki front pully . I cought myself cruising at a GPS 87mph on the interstate a couple weeks back ... But I promptly slowed down to 75mph without getting into trouble. I believe , the low pressure at the rear of the muffler/exhaust system and helping the motor breath makes a lot of difference. I've only got 70,000 miles on these motors and don't know everything about them . help them breath all ya can ! [ch128512] |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by verslagen1 on 07/25/17 at 19:05:42 3F38393F3D3F243F500 wrote:
same wt. but only 6' just lean a little bit. ;D |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 07/25/17 at 20:12:39 Another interesting thing I noticed was that the bike with the braided metal exhaust straight pipe was nowhere near as loud as the one with the muffler removed. I figured both would be similarly loud. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by springman on 07/26/17 at 09:56:47 Well, my S40 with the Kawi pulley up front has a top speed in excess of 80mph. Coming back home from Lancer's the speed limit for a good while was 75 mph and at times I was cruising at just under and indicated 80 mph which if I understand Dave correctly, it means I was actually going close to 88 mph because the Kawi pulley and larger back tire cause and approximate 10% error. With myself and gear I estimate bike was loaded with 250-270 lbs. and not I was not going flat out. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by MMRanch on 07/26/17 at 11:19:34 Yea , to what SpringMan Said ... That's the same conversation that I have had . ;) |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 07/26/17 at 14:38:09 I'm not using the bike to record speed, I am using a GPS and a tripod mounted radar so the speed indications should be considered very accurate. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/26/17 at 14:57:39 584741465B5C6D5D6D55474B00320 wrote:
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Dave on 07/27/17 at 04:25:30 584741465B5C6D5D6D55474B00320 wrote:
What JOG is saying in his shorthand post - is the larger tire may be putting the engine in a place where it cannot get enough rpm to develop the HP needed to go faster. Does the bike go faster in the next lower gear? |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 07/27/17 at 20:55:19 Ok I took that particular bike out and the one with the 150 tire shows zero response when upshifted to 5th gear. It caps out today at 54mph in 4th, and a change into 5th gear yields zero change in speed or from what we can tell RPMs. Both people that have been riding this bike have stated previously that they cant tell that there even is a 5th gear besides the fact that the foot shifter responds to another up-tick gear change. It may be the tire. Once I run through two more 150 tires, if the bike doesn't catastrophically fail, I will try a stock 140 and see if there's a change. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by verslagen1 on 07/27/17 at 21:55:13 6B4B49415C4B2E0 wrote:
Who rebuilt it for you? most likely the cam is off a tooth. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/27/17 at 22:30:55 What if someone adjusted the valves on exhaust? |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Dave on 07/28/17 at 03:26:57 6E4E4C44594E2B0 wrote:
The stock 140/80-15 tire is only available from IRC, and it is a mediocre tire. It really doesn't sound like you engine is making the power it should, as 4th gear should overcome any issue with a tire that is making the gearing too tall and you should be able to reach 70 - 80 mph in "one" of the gears. If you want to keep the big/bold/bobber look - get a 140/90-15, if you want to get the most performance and a tire almost identical to the stock size - get a 130/90-15. If your bike can't go 80-85 with either of those sizes.....it is not the tire. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by SALB on 07/28/17 at 11:16:50 6444464E5344210 wrote:
I ran a 150/90 on the last S40 I had for about a year. After fixing the clearance issues, it would do 90 mph, but took forever to get there. I had to plan to pass cars at highway speeds, and handling was atrocious. If it will only hit 54, look elsewhere. ;) |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 07/28/17 at 14:51:28 Just to clarify, I was thinking that having no change in performance from 4th-5th gear was perhaps the tire. The fact that the bike is reducing in speed each week is something else, I assume it will be scrap by winter. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by verslagen1 on 07/28/17 at 14:53:35 7C6F7879666B6D6F643B0A0 wrote:
Who rebuilt it for you? most likely the cam is off a tooth.[/quote] |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 07/28/17 at 16:31:25 A local mechanic did the bearings/pulleys etc. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/17 at 17:19:05 First, check valves. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by verslagen1 on 07/28/17 at 18:33:29 133331392433560 wrote:
did he split the case? |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/17 at 18:51:35 I think it's the one that got output shaft bearings. I don't understand the continuing decrease in power. Maybe the slide is sticking? |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/28/17 at 19:38:44 A leak down compression test is what needs to be done to that bike. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 07/28/17 at 19:46:33 Im not sure what was done entirely. I needed anything related to pulley and bearing noise to be replaced, that's all I asked them to do. I never went there and talked to them myself so I can't say for sure what they did. I might get it looked at, I might scrap it and just focus on my other ones. The original point was that I incidentally have two other bikes that don't go 80-90 as I have been told is normal. I found that interesting. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by verslagen1 on 07/28/17 at 20:32:41 If you're gonna scrap it, I'll come get and tell what's wrong with it. going to OK in september. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 00:48:16 2D272329222B2F26787E7A4A0 wrote:
Why? |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by batman on 07/29/17 at 03:58:45 Speed tests on bikes when you don't know what size jets or if the spacer mod has been done ,and then bitching because the bike won't do the stock rated speed with stock/altered, exhaust systems doesn't really look like it would mean anything,really what's the point.Tune the bikes carbs to the exhausts first then test the results.Even a Savage with low compression should be able to do 70-80.You'll notice that the bike with stock exhaust is the only bike that broke 70 ,probably with stock (lean ) carb jetting,and what state of tune? |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/29/17 at 04:45:53 2D3234332E2918281820323E75470 wrote:
Why? [/quote] Because an engine that can only make 4,000 rpm in top gear isn't making full power. It could be due to worn rings or blow by at the valves. A leak down test will point to the cause. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 06:52:18 Wouldn't step one be see if the slide is going all the way up? Then, because I don't have the stuff for a test, I'd look at the valves, Ohhh, Snap,, we've seen an engine crap out, was stored a long time, started, and the oil was gone in the jug, dang,, Well, the leak down just might be step one.. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 07/29/17 at 09:15:33 3231243D313E6468500 wrote:
"Bitching" and "Interesting" are two totally different things. I haven't complained once, these are observations that I find interesting. I'm not emotionally invested in motorcycle speeds enough to complain about them. I found it interesting (not disturbing) that even the stock bike did not do 80-90 when I was informed that stock bikes would. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 10:21:51 A stock bike with somewhat boogered jets, sticky slide, too tight belt, won't run to capacity. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/29/17 at 17:00:23 Do keep in mind that while a Savage owner may see 80-90 mph on their speedo, there is about a 5-10% error in the OEM speedo so the actual speed will be close to what you got on the stock bike with the GPS (mid 70's to mid 80's). |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 17:18:41 about a 5-10% error in the OEM speedo so the Stock tire, yeah,, But the Dunlop 140/90 is enough taller to compensate. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by batman on 07/30/17 at 17:17:48 The 140/90/15 is 4.6 % bigger than stock and takes care of most of the speedo error.the bike is the sum of all it's parts,if Eegore ,had gone through the bike to make sure it was stock and in good running condition,it is after all 22yrs old,(95),it would have been better.The fact that my 95 , stock except for a Dyna muffler does 88-90 any day,leaves me to conclude that they haven't received proper care.Anyone finding the results" interesting" must be easily amused .A little research would show that the stock bike is rated for 86-87 mph. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by verslagen1 on 07/31/17 at 14:11:00 081711160B0C3D0D3D05171B50620 wrote:
I think you jinxed my bike. Friday going home, the slide stuck hard, made it to 65 then a little gremlin popped up on the speedo and said you shall not pass in a little squeaky voice. Took it apart Saturday night after the mosquitoes quit sizzling on the window pane. The slide was stuck hard and it took a little tug to get it out. Nothing wrong with the slide but the body had scratches. I had a little polishing wheel for the dremel, that and a little mothers and those scratches were gone. I duct taped the gremlin to the window pane... buhaha. [smiley=evil.gif] |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/31/17 at 17:34:51 Dadgummitt,, now I feel bad. I Do! No, really, I just feel Awful.. How does stuff like that even Happen? How could the carb body get roughed up? |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by batman on 07/31/17 at 20:18:23 Beach sand?Smog? |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by verslagen1 on 07/31/17 at 20:55:17 gremlin toe nails :o he wasn't walking right. now he ain't walking at all... duct tape still got him. [smiley=evil.gif] |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by MMRanch on 07/31/17 at 21:07:16 Eegore I use a GPS all the time. I haven't held mine wide open and let it wind-up , but I have been guilty of high-speed cruising on the super-slab and the Garmin remembers how fast ya been . The Kawasaki front pulley changes everything ! No , its NOT wound-out at that speed , its in OVER-DRIVE and having a good time ! ;) I live in middle Tn. at about 1100 or 1200 ft/sea level ... 152.5 main and 52.5 low/speed jets w/breather inlet remove and 12" shorty muffler. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Eegore on 08/01/17 at 05:24:44 I have two unmodified Kawasaki front pulleys that I was going to have machined but the 150 tire is too big to run one so I never followed through on that. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by ohiomoto on 08/01/17 at 07:00:01 Eegore, I know you are testing different exhausts, make sure there are no exhaust leaks on any of the systems. Even a small exhaust leak can cause a bike to run weak and act like it's jetting is way off. You want that sucker sealed tight from the head to the tip. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by badwolf on 08/01/17 at 09:01:52 Eegore, I run a 150/90-15 rear tire with both 25 and 65 tooth pulleys. Not for top speed, but to lower the rpm at cruising speed. At 60 mph I now turn 3400 instead of 4100, makes it happy ALL DAY on long SS trips. 4th gear is now almost like 5th was. I have a big windshield, hard bags, and a back box/backrest and have let it run up to 85mph (gps) with no sweat. I don't normally ride that fast, keep it around the speed limit mostly, but it will go faster if I want. I don't have snappy acceleration with this high gearing, but I have grown old and don't need that any more. If you can't get over 70-75 on a stock bike there is something wrong. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by ihasabike on 08/02/17 at 02:34:22 Regardless of top speed, I was under the impression we need to keep RPMs at or below about 4200 to avoid damaging heat. My bike has a tachometer and I'm hitting 4200 RPMs on my S40 at about 65 mph, which creates a quandary in the local 75 mph zones. I'm finding I need to cruise at about 4500 RPMs just to go with the flow in the slow lane. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Dave on 08/02/17 at 05:03:22 484940524043484A44210 wrote:
Where did you read that 4,200 rpm is a "do not exceed" rpm? I do agree that the engine "sounds" like it is running pretty fast when you get it spinning up that fast - but I don't believe it will overheat. When I had the Trail Tech Vapor on my bike and stock gearing, I found that on back roads and speeds below 60 mph, the head temperature stayed around 240 degrees in the hot 90 degree summer days. If I got on the highway and rode at 70-75 mph the head temps would go up to 280 degrees. The hottest head temperatures I ever got were in the 300 degree range - and they occurred when I stuck in traffic in Gatlingburg, and on a steep 1st gear climb up a gravel road when it was about 95 degrees in the shade. I don't believe the Savage will overheat at highway speeds (not sure about that if you are like Serowbot and live where the temperature can get to 112 degrees) - however the bike can start to use oil at sustained high speeds...so you need to keep track of your oil level. You may want to consider getting a Kawasaki 25T pulley or a 140/90-15 rear tire is you do a lot of highway riding at 70+ mph. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Gary_in_NJ on 08/02/17 at 05:42:31 No big deal if it over heats, just top off the coolant and you're good to go. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by ihasabike on 08/02/17 at 07:26:00 Since it's air cooled, do you mean add oil as Dave mentioned? |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by Gary_in_NJ on 08/02/17 at 08:57:10 6C6D647664676C6E60050 wrote:
No, I was making a joke...but thanks for reading anyway. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by verslagen1 on 08/06/17 at 16:26:55 Dang gremlin got loose, chewed thru my clutch cable and it let go on the way to work friday just as I pulled up to the carpool wait line. I left a little early ;D Got a good practice session of clutchless shifting. stopping was fun, got her down to 1st and then killed it. starting was even more fun, push the start button, waddle waddle putt putt varroom. |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/17 at 16:53:56 That's some fun, innit? |
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Title: Re: Top speed observations Post by LANCER on 08/07/17 at 03:54:25 687B6C6D727F797B702F1E0 wrote:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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