SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1499659504 Message started by FoXTaroT on 07/09/17 at 21:05:04

Title: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by FoXTaroT on 07/09/17 at 21:05:04 Hi everyone: Last summer I got my license and my first bike. I know nothing about bikes but have a background with tinkering a bit with my cars. I bought a 2000 Suzuki LS650 with about 15,000 kms on it. I didn't ride much last summer and haven't rode at all this summer. Last summer I was learning on the bike just riding around the city. Each tank of gas got me about 60 - 80kms per tank (stock tank size). This was disheartening. I also just assumed my bike only has 4 gears... though the lack of a 5th gear isn't what I figured my pool mileage was from given I was usually just doing about 50 - 60 km/h. The bike has some rattles. The bike has no shortage of pop backs / back fires when decelerating. All this combined just sort of killed my enthusiasm so I rode less and less before parking it for the winter. Soooo - I'm back at it. I discovered that my bike should have a 5th gear, good to know. I want to tackle my mileage. So far I've checked the battery, all looks good there. I've pulled the spark plug, it is blacker than night. I just did a compression test. 135 psi. I then threw a bit of oil into the cylinder and it jumped up to 148-150psi. To anyone's opinion, is my compression a concern or should I be looking at my carburetor or any where else? Or any other general suggestions out there to get this bike to an enjoyable riding state? Thanks!

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by norm92de on 07/09/17 at 21:56:17 Where do you live? What is your elevation above sea level?

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by IslandRoad on 07/10/17 at 05:52:38 You're running at about half the mileage of a stock bike - or to put it another way, you're using double the fuel. I would pull the carb and see what the setup is like. What jet sizes for main and pilot jet, and what position the needle is set too. If the engine is in reasonable condition (others here, I'm sure, will be able to help you with that) then I'd say with that mileage and the black plug, someone has probably changed the carb setup to increase the fuel intake ALOT. Has the bike got a stock muffler, and stock airbox/intake; if not, then what's on it? If it's got an open pipe, and a very non-restrictive filter, it's possible the previous owner upped the jets to try to compensate for the lean condition created by the open pipe. Someone on this forum recently found that when the previous owner had pulled apart the carb and re-assembled it, they put the air-jet from the top of the carb into the main jet spot in the bottom of the carb - I think that's almost double the size, and therefore double the fuel.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by Serowbot on 07/10/17 at 06:57:53 Check your petcock... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by Alex Wheatley on 07/10/17 at 07:28:24 I'm not the expert that these guys are, but sounds a lot like either the petcock or the carburetor, or both. Black spark plug means a lot of uncombusted fuel, which can be caused by both of those problems. Thankfully, the petcock is super-easy and inexpensive to replace with a Raptor model. Even if it's not actually the problem here, it will be one day so you might as well just go ahead and replace it anyway. The carburetor (praise the Lord, we've only got one of them per bike!) is pretty easy to strip down if you've got a decent toolbox and some patience. One word of warning with the carburetor: be prepared for some of the bolts to be stuck. If they weren't treated with anti-seize thread lube last time it was put back together they might be stuck pretty good by now. It's a good idea to get hold of replacement, good-quality allen-head bolts for the carburetor before you take it apart, they're much easier to take out again later and make carb fiddling much less hassle than it could otherwise be.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/10/17 at 09:50:10 It's a used bike from 2000 - it could be anything. He's my $0.02: Clean the carburetor and while it's apart make note of the installed jets and the position of the needle. If the jets and needle seem out of wack, then adjust. Worst case scenario is you have a clean carb with known jets - best case is you fix your problem. Then, I'd replace the spark plug and clean the airfilter. For the sake of good order I'd replace the petcock with a Raptor unit because it's not a matter of if it will fail, but when (given that the bike is 17 years old, it may already have a Raptor unit). Those steps above resolve about 99% of all LS650 woes. If that doesn't give you a well running bike, then we can begin to look for problems.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by cygnet on 07/10/17 at 09:52:44 There is sure something wrong I also live in Calgary and I get 200km and then I put on reserve. I bet some one has had that carb apart and not put it back together right. Also I get no backfire or anything, I did when the bike was new but after break in it's been good.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by batman on 07/10/17 at 11:09:14 It may be that the PO took out the white spacer completely ,lifting the needle jet way to far. Your mileage isn't that high ,your compression is normal (high ,if you didn't unplug the decompression solenoid )when doing the test.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by ohiomoto on 07/10/17 at 13:03:09 Interesting you say that batman.  We had a discussion about my slightly low MPG. I mentioned my bike seemed a little rich even after swapping smaller main and pilot jets. I decided to check into the white spacer mod the PO did and found one washer on top and three underneath the needle clip.  Oops.  I fixed that (1 under and 3 above) and bumped the pilot jet back up to the stock 52.5.  The bike runs much better and I gained 2-3 MPG on the first 1/2 tank of gas I ran through.  Might even add another washer and bump the main up one size at some point. I'm not sure the white spacer alone can cause the dramatic drop in MPGs the OP is experiencing.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by FoXTaroT on 07/10/17 at 14:56:08 Hi Everyone, 1. Thank you all for all the replies! I appreciate how active this forum is. So my 135 psi (this was with the solenoid plugged in) and the jump to 148 psi (used wd40 as my oil on hand) - Would we consider that an okay compression / not to worry much about things on the engine side of it? @norm92de - I live in Toronto Ontario - according to Wiki, distance above sea level seems to range from 75m to 209m. @IslandRoad - The Carb has been pulled... My issue is I don't know anything about carb / how to test / diagnose etc ... I'm not entirely opposed to taking the carb to a shop if they are able to get it set up back to original spec / or whatever is optimal. Bike muffler and airbox is all stock I believe. Airbox definitely is... looking at stock photos from Google and the muffler looks the same as those images. @Serowbot and @Alex Wheatley - Thanks, I'll look into that... Not a bad idea to replace given the simplicity... The bike I don't think got much love from its previous owners so it could be original. @Gary in NJ - I agree, I'll be at the carb once I can figure out how to service it... If anyone has any recommendations or tech diagrams / how-to's on servicing the carb to bring it back to stock settings - that would be super! Spark Plug just got changed, air filter is new, and oil was done maybe 100kms ago. @cygnet - I wouldn't be surprised... I don't think this bike had the best previous owners -_-'..... @batman and @ohiomoto - I'll have to look into this white spacer / washer stuff... Batman, what's compression suppose to be on this engine? Thanks everyone.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/10/17 at 15:13:20 If you can follow instructions these guys can walk you through.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by batman on 07/10/17 at 23:40:27 Clymers said,compression 200 to 142psi (1400 to 1000 kPa).And you should unplug the solenoid ,and have a fully charged battery when doing the test. With the numbers you obtained without unplugging I wouldn't think compression is your problem.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/11/17 at 05:12:29 I wouldn't go back to the stock setting, that is a setting known not to work well. The carb is a fairly simple device. Take it apart in stages. When I was young and worried about losing parts I did the disassembly in a large aluminum broiling pan. It goes back together the way it came apart. The 4 screws that hold the bowl can be tricky. Use a JIS screwdriver, if you don't have one then use a NEW screwdriver that is at least 12" long (the longer the screwdriver, the better the torque transfer) and use a lot of down pressure. Don't reuse those screws - throw them away and replace with M4 Cap screws. Get yourself some eye protection and a can or two of carb cleaner. Remove the jets and clean every port and passage. Take note of the numbers stamped on the side of the jets and report back. Also, there is a white spacer on top of the needle. Let us know the height of that too.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by batman on 07/11/17 at 12:09:29 J.I.S. screwdrivers look like philliphead but have a shallower (blunt ) taper and fit down into the x shaped groves deeper, you cantake pilliphead and grind the tips down .

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by FoXTaroT on 07/17/17 at 05:54:44 Hi everyone, Sorry for the delay - I got to the carb last night. Pulled it apart and cleaned it up. I didn't get into the white spacers. I pulled the 4 jets: Top side big Jet - R23L Top side small jet: R45 Bottom side main jet: 155 Bottom side pilot jet: 52.5 @Gary_in_NJ yeah, some of those screws were a huge pain... Thanks for the heads up on those!

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/17 at 06:19:01 Those jets are pretty standard.  You might be able to lean out the main a size or two, but there is now way those jets are the problem.   Check for a poorly executed white spacer mod and check your float level.  I'd also check that you have the stock needle for a 2000.  Early needle had 3 slots for the circle clip allowing for adjustments.  Your's should have one slot.  Still, the needle alone shouldn't cause the sort of problem you have.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by stewmills on 07/17/17 at 06:37:35 FoXTaroT, I am not sure that this will be a lot of help, but here is a recent post I had troubleshooting what ended up being a rich running and flooding (using excessive fuel) in the idle range. It ma at least open your mind up to some of the carb workings. Also, in the post linked below, NOTE the link in my first post in the thread to the ruckus forum's carb thread. This is not our exact carb, but it is very similar and will help you understand what changes affect which throttle and running positions and you'll be better prepared for troubleshooting what may be going on with yours as you continue to try out and test different configurations. EDIT: The photos that were in the ruckus thread are no longer there because of the photobucket bullshart going on. Sorry...They were excellent visuals. if I can find other good similar carb references I will repost here. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1497301269 Good luck!

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/17/17 at 09:44:24 The pilot and the main are of the most interest. Those are not the stock jets, so some one took the time to get the jetting right.. hopefully they adjusted the needle height too. I would take the time to set the float height, it should be just above an inch. After a good cleaning and confirming that it's properly adjusted, put it back together and see. If there is an improvement.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by batman on 07/17/17 at 10:24:23 The stock main jet for the s-40 is a 145 followed by 147.5 ,150 ,152.5 155 .a 155 is way to large for a stock motor and killing your mileage,you need to tell us your location/elevation to suggest proper jetting ,but as it stands I'd advise using a main jet no larger than 150 . If you pull your sparkplug and it's covered in soot  you'll know your running rich.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/17 at 12:53:57 I believe the 52.5 is stock for pilot.... I got my 96 used.  The guy I got if from had a 55 pilot, 155 main and a way too rich white spacer mod. The worst MPG I ever got was very low 40s.  I went to a 50/150 combo and got mid 40s.  I fixed the way too rich white spacer mod and bumped up to a 52.5 pilot and got 54 MPG out of my last tank.  (My bike does have a Dyna exhaust but is stock otherwise.) My point is that is seems far fetched that the OPs jetting is causing such an extreme drop in mileage.  It's surly a contributing factor, but this thing must be dumping fuel like crazy to be doing so poorly.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by batman on 07/17/17 at 20:45:09 Yes stock pilot jet is a 52.5 and should be good in most cases.you need to change the main jet (smaller) and you need to see what the PO did with the spacer.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by FoXTaroT on 07/25/17 at 14:00:25 Sorry I'm slow on doing these things... No white washer. 1 small washer below circle clip. 3 small washers above.

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by FoXTaroT on 07/25/17 at 14:40:13 nt

Title: Re: New to Motorcycles - 2000 w bad mileage Post by batman on 07/25/17 at 19:14:49 I lived on the other side of the "pond" Rochester ny and with a stock bike ,with Dyna muffler I run a 150 main ,I think your 155 is way two large and is killing your mileage .

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