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Message started by Oldfeller on 07/06/17 at 16:13:21

Title: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itus
Post by Oldfeller on 07/06/17 at 16:13:21

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-05/can-millennials-save-the-motorcycle-industry

http://https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iEZIUIpe3Yho/v1/800x-1.png

http://https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iMfSpKZKThd0/v1/800x-1.jpg

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Serowbot on 07/06/17 at 16:22:41

Time to get retro... 8-)

http://https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--lsqPlYRk--/wu5nu0owjhtxmumkqjv9.jpg

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/06/17 at 17:29:47

Someone who was under thirty in 1990 (like me), is now over 50 (like me :( ). The manufacturers have been relying on the kids from the 70's for a long time. We were the motorcycle boom generation. They better wake up, there less and less of us every day.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/06/17 at 17:45:19

Won't be long till I'm riding a
Crotchety Rocket

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by MMRanch on 07/06/17 at 20:56:17

Yea Gary

The kids from the 70's are getting 100+ HP / 400# bikes ... wont be long before most of them die off ! :'(

That little Honda looks like my S-65 from years ago. Kind-a :)

no harder than it pulled the chain didn't need adjusting that often / besides at 30mph it takes a long time to get to the 600 miles adjustment time ! ;D

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by jcstokes on 07/07/17 at 02:15:42

OF, you certainly put your finger on the button.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by sjaskow - FSO on 07/07/17 at 10:46:07

I think some of this is also a reflection of the crappy economy of the last 10ish years combined with the rise in the amount of student loans since the 90s. After all, it's kind of hard to justify a 20K toy when you're paying off 50K in student loans at a McJob. They tend to quote the sameish stats when they talk about millennials and home ownership.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by MMRanch on 07/07/17 at 20:13:15

I think the Starter bikes are over priced so there ain't no starters ! ;)

Title: Bloomberg says "Motorcycle Industry Is Dying"
Post by engineer on 07/07/17 at 08:50:12

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-05/can-millennials-save-the-motorcycle-industry

Most of this article relates to the US market and how most sales are to people over 50 years old. Seeing that only us old timers are buying bikes I wish they would start making them lighter in weight with more comfortable seating positions. The age vs buyers chart is interesting, you can see why they would be worried about future sales.

Title: Re: Bloomberg says "Motorcycle Industry Is Dying"
Post by HAPPYDAN on 07/07/17 at 18:57:27

That's an interesting article, to be sure. But I (personal opinion here) think they may have overlooked a couple of points. First, due to overproduction, the "Big Twin" market has become saturated. Everyone that wants one, has one. $4500 will get you a great late model (massive) used HD. Second, all we Yanks get now are cruisers, crotch rockets, and dirt devils. Gone are the "classic" styles (think '70s Honda) that were affordable and lured us into the market. If I could get a new CB175 Scrambler, I'd buy it tomorrow. I didn't see any reference to the scooter market in that article. Scooters have really caught on with the younger crowd; simple, comfortable, economical, affordable. The market isn't dying; it's merely changing. Adapt, or die.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by LANCER on 07/08/17 at 13:31:46

Yep, you are correct, the market is changing, like it always does.
Apparently the writer of the article does not ride, or is at least very narrowly focused with blinders on.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by MMRanch on 07/08/17 at 16:36:26

Yea HappyDan ,
Yamaha was on the right track with that SR-400 , but the idiots put that wound rotor alt. in it. Only folks who will buy one are the folks who don't know what they are getting into.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/08/17 at 21:13:09

You just said it and I still wouldn't know how to avoid getting shafted.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Steve H on 07/09/17 at 11:31:36

I'm of the opinion also that starter bikes are way too expensive. All bikes are way to expensive these days.

Most starter bikes these days are made in third-world countries and are produced quite cheaply. Why does the same 250 that costs $1000 to put on the floor in a third-world country cost us $4000 or more? Profiteering??? It's the same bike. Quality here is no better than there.

Younger people starting out have little extra money these days and have to spend it on more important things. The small size, good ol UJM at a reasonable price would probably bring in lots of new riders.

The younger generation is also more and more shunning car ownership in favor of ride sharing, bicycles or scooters. I saw a report on tv about this a while back. Said expenses were a big part and that since everything is getting so city oriented and traveling around is getting so expensive and over-regulated, they just don't feel the need.

If they don't feel the need to have a car, a motorcycle is surely way down the list unless it's something small to cheaply get around town. (chinese scooter)

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Dave on 07/10/17 at 04:13:10

455E07040502000F360 wrote:

Most starter bikes these days are made in third-world countries and are produced quite cheaply. Why does the same 250 that costs $1000 to put on the floor in a third-world country cost us $4000 or more? Profiteering??? It's the same bike. Quality here is no better than there.

I think the cost increase to the US is a really involved issue, and I don't believe any single entity is making a huge profit on them. I do believe the issue is really a lot of small costs, fees and taxes all adding up while the bike is in transit to the US dealer.

The bike has to be shipped to a port, then put on a ship....then unloaded from the ship at a US port that likely has fees and some form of import tax, then it has to be shipped to a distributor, then eventually to a dealer. While in motion there are vehicle related fuel and licensing fees/insurance and maintenance costs to be paid - and at every stop there is a person(s) that are earning wages and getting benefits paid to them, and a building that costs money for mortgage,insurance, taxes, ,etc.

Back in the 70's when I first started riding the entry level bikes were in the $600 range and were very simple air cooled engines with a carb....a web searched shows the Suzuki T500 Titan was $899 in 1970 (it was not considered a beginners bike). Today the entry level bikes are in the all over $5,000 if you buy new - and they are mostly fuel injected, water cooled, and EPA compliant.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/10/17 at 05:52:47

I was thinking the same thing Dave. There is a lot of transnational friction to get a motorcycle onto a dealers floor.

The only new bike I have ever purchased was my first street bike, a 1981 GN400 (wish I still had it). It had a list price of $1,300 and I paid $1,100. If you were into bikes in the early 80's you may recall that the market was in a deep depression and you could bargain on anything.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/10/17 at 09:42:04

There is a lot of transnational friction to get a motorcycle onto a dealers floor.

Lubrication engineers are working on it. The last research I saw indicated that the team were considering working with bankers in hopes of finding something to address the problem. They are thinking that money might smooth some of that out.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Dave on 07/10/17 at 09:54:03

As much fun as it is to buy something new.......I just can't imagine that I will ever buy a new motorcycle (or car) again.

The used motorcycle market is huge in the area I live, and you can often find a motorcycle with 1,000 miles or less for half price. I am glad that folks are buying new motorcycles and taking good care of them - then parting with them cheaply! ;)

Back to the original topic........I guess at some point the need for a new Harley is going to dwindle as the market seems to be pretty well saturated. The folks that can afford to buy a new Harley already have one....and the new daring young men are buying sport and naked bikes. And the "distracted driver" and traffic jams on the busy roads in this area really do make riding on two wheels seem like a dangerous means of transportation to people with normal self preservation thresholds.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/10/17 at 11:27:16

much fun as it is to buy something new.......I just can't imagine that I will ever buy a new motorcycle (or car) again.

I wouldn't unless my family was Steenking Rich.
Depreciation is immediate.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by batman on 07/11/17 at 20:51:49

You use to hear the Harley guy's say they bought them because they kept their valve, but it's raining used Harley's around here ,If you have $3,000 you can take your pick.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Oldfeller on 07/14/17 at 01:17:48

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/millennials-are-wrecking-americas-most-iconic-motorcycle-brand/ar-BBEicIs?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

MSN Money tracks the end of Harley Davison's long ride as America's Number One motorcycle brand.

"We estimate rider growth has declined from a 3-5% annual growth pace pre-financial crisis to close to 0% today," noted Beckel. If our back-tested model is predictive of the future, we expect rider growth will dip into negative territory in 2017 and stay in negative territory for at least the next five years."

Gist is that them Gen X chillun's jest doesn't like a big heavy Hurley, and when they do rarely buy a bike it is always a used Japanese or European bike.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/14/17 at 09:58:18

It would appear that Kawsaki is well aware that in order to build a new audience, you must start small (as in displacement). This bike could be very interesting:

http://www.motorcycle.com/features/oops-milwaukee-news-crew-outs-2018-kawasaki-ninja-400.html

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by ohiomoto on 07/14/17 at 10:47:24

4E44404A41484C451B1D19290 wrote:

The only new bike I have ever purchased was my first street bike, a 1981 GN400 (wish I still had it). It had a list price of $1,300 and I paid $1,100. If you were into bikes in the early 80's you may recall that the market was in a deep depression and you could bargain on anything.

-------------------------------------------

Funny because I recently tried to snag one locally. Asking price was $900 and it was gone in a day.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/17 at 13:05:11

4F45414B40494D441A1C18280 wrote:

I hope it's a torquier design instead of a higher top end goal. I've been trying to not wish too hard for a 300. Maybe a 300 would be the better choice, and availability might go up with a 400 on the market.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Ruttly on 07/14/17 at 15:18:47

I think the American market sucks unless your a sport bike fan. The only bike that interests me is a Ducati Srambler. Now if we had the same choices Japan & Europe has it would take some time to decide what to buy. So I guess there won't be any NEW cookie cutter bikes in my stable. I guess I will get used to building bikes I want to ride. Who wants a Harley, with Indian kickin their a$$ at the races, you bet their sales are down. Not to mention they have already saturated the market with their bikes, why buy one when you own two !

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/17 at 15:35:44

Some day, the W650 will roll again..
I hope..

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Oldfeller on 07/14/17 at 18:20:15

Dave has most of the truth all laid out for you. Cheaper bikes are made elsewhere in the world without all the EPA frills (most similar to our stuff in the 70's) but by the time you import them (equipped to be compliant with our EPA) they are quite expensive.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Ruttly on 07/14/17 at 18:22:13

Yeah JOG that's a cool bike. Get that carb fixed ?

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by ohiomoto on 07/14/17 at 20:52:24

706F696E73744575457D6F63281A0 wrote:

Some day, the W650 will roll again..
I hope..

-----

I wish...

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/17 at 21:31:23

I have one, it's been parked for a few years.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by ohiomoto on 07/15/17 at 06:42:10

Oh, cool! I wish they would roll them off the line again. I love em and would take one over a modern Triumph all day long. The did such a nice job with them.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/15/17 at 08:48:42

I hope I get okay and caught up,, the thing would make a super ride.

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Ruttly on 07/15/17 at 10:10:29

The Perfect Project ! Your lucky I don't live close I would be overthere helping and drinking your beer till it got done ! Wait a minute , Ruttly living in Texas , NOT ! But it would be a killer project ! Those are hard to find in any condition, I have only seen one .

Title: Re: Bloomberg lays out the end of Hurlybigbike-itu
Post by Ruttly on 07/15/17 at 10:14:41

I already know JOGs response! ;D ;D ;D

Yes I am very lucky you don't live close !!!