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Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 09:14:53

Title: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 09:14:53

http://www.weeklystandard.com/camille-paglia-on-trump-democrats-transgenderism-and-islamist-terror/article/2008464

Imagine an Intellectually Honest Atheist/democrat..
Yeah, my head nearly exploded..
I hope the Trump haters read it. Everyone could get something from it. And WooHoo, a piece of a speech that I certainly didn't hear about..

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 09:31:32

Fantastic article!

Great excerpt from it:

"But today's liberalism has become grotesquely mechanistic and authoritarian: It's all about reducing individuals to a group identity, defining that group in permanent victim terms, and denying others their democratic right to challenge that group and its ideology. "

You could easily replace the word "liberalism" with "conservatism".

I think she's wrong on climate change and she gives tweety too much credit on that speech (probably not written by him, let's be real). But overall - well stated.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 09:40:24

I wonder who did write it. It's certainly along the lines of what he understands. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a big hand in it or wrote it.
Of course you think she's wrong on climate. But you don't have a single Be Afraid prediction that we have been told was coming soon for the last twenty years to support your Beliefs. You have claims of coming calamities by Scientists, who are, to date, Wrong.
I'm sure you'll be assembling a comprehensive list of predictions that came true.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 09:52:15

5C4345425F5869596951434F04360 wrote:

I wonder who did write it. It's certainly along the lines of what he understands. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a big hand in it or wrote it.

I don't think so. I hate to break it to you, but our president is not a great businessman. He was gifted millions - and did no better than a basic mutual fund. All his casinos - bankrupt. Many of his properties - sold at a loss, etc. The speech was (I think) written by a conservative think tank with a focus on business and massive deregulation.

Of course you think she's wrong on climate. But you don't have a single Be Afraid prediction that we have been told was coming soon for the last twenty years to support your Beliefs. You have claims of coming calamities by Scientists, who are, to date, Wrong.
I'm sure you'll be assembling a comprehensive list of predictions that came true.

I look at climate change this way (since I'm not a scientist) - how could 7 billion people NOT have an effect on climate?

Further, ask yourself - who's opposing it? Corporations and conservatives. Gee... I wonder why? How many scientists can you name that are billionaires - or even multi-millionaires? What's to gain from reducing carbon emissions? What's to lose?

From a political point of view - climate change regulation is no different than net neutrality. Look at the ones opposing it and ask yourself "why?".

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 10:14:11

I never said, nor has any honest person suggested that people have had no effect.

Now, can all of you try to remember that?
I am fukking TIRED of saying it.
Who ended the ice ages?
You and your car?
The polar caps on mars were diminishing as our climate initially warmed. Gee, is it POSSIBLE that great big light in the sky is not as steady in its output as a lightbulb?
Why did the FOUNDER of the weather channel walk away?
Plenty of climate scientists have said it is bullshit.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 10:19:35

2B343235282F1E2E1E26343873410 wrote:

I never said, nor has any honest person suggested that people have had no effect.

Fine - then why not try to limit our carbon output? Hey, we might just start a new industry in clean power!

Now, can all of you try to remember that?
I am fukking TIRED of saying it.
Who ended the ice ages?
You and your car?
The polar caps on mars were diminishing as our climate initially warmed. Gee, is it POSSIBLE that great big light in the sky is not as steady in its output as a lightbulb?

The Sun hasn't changed in billions on years - the only major change in the last 10K years or so has been man.

Why did the FOUNDER of the weather channel walk away?
Plenty of climate scientists have said it is bullshit.

More have said it's NOT BS. So there's that.

I'll hang my hat on the preventative side of the argument - thanks.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by Serowbot on 06/15/17 at 10:40:02

An elitist, New York, pro-choice, lesbian, liberal, Democrat, Bernie supporter, that teaches women's studies...
Did you bump your head this morning, JoG?... :-?
You okay, buddy?... :-/

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by old.indian on 06/15/17 at 11:04:58

594F58455D48455E2A0 wrote:

An elitist, New York, pro-choice, lesbian, liberal, Democrat, Bernie supporter, that teaches women's studies...
Did you bump your head this morning, JoG?... :-?
You okay, buddy?... :-/

I agree with JOG.... I don't agree with her 100%, but at least she sounds like you could discuss differences and part company on a friendly basis...

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 11:39:20

The reason for your confusion is obvious.

olar cycle or solar magnetic activity cycle is the nearly periodic 11-year change in the Sun's activity and appearance. They have been observed for centuries. The changes on the sun cause effects in space, in the atmosphere, and on Earth's surface. While it is the dominant variable in solar activity, aperiodic fluctuations also occur. Play media Evolution …

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.
https://www.bing.com/search?pc=SOWI&form=AMZNS1&q=sun%27s+output+over+time

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 12:03:14

6C7375726F6859695961737F34060 wrote:

Yeah, I do. (thanks for pointing out that the Sun has been the same for billions of years).

I'll stay on the side that wants to create cleaner energy.

Thanks.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 12:10:53

changes on the sun cause effects in space, in the atmosphere, and on Earth's surface. While it is the dominant v

Where are you getting

The sun doesn't change?

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 12:36:08

455A5C5B4641704070485A561D2F0 wrote:

changes on the sun cause effects in space, in the atmosphere, and on Earth's surface. While it is the dominant v

Where are you getting

The sun doesn't change?

Well - regardless of your terrible cut and paste skills, I get that the Sun has CYCLES. If you would research further, you'd see that independently of these cycles, the Earth is warming at an alarming rate.

Again - you go right ahead and ignore it. I'll err on the side of clean energy, thanks.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by verslagen1 on 06/15/17 at 13:44:38

Climate change has been happening long before you or I have come along.
http://https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Post-Glacial_Sea_Level.png

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 13:55:46

The same Climate Science was screaming
Mini Ice Age Coming
Until
OHH, MuGawd, We're gonna overheat!
became
The Boogeyman..

You don't want to discuss HOW the ice age ended.
Why?
What caused the Huge Glaciers that carved out the Great Lakes to melt?
Your SUV?

You should look up Martian Polar Ice Caps
Unless it's just a conspiracy theory.

Why is it so reasonable to Fear the Climate, ?
And where is that list of Climate Science Predictions that came true?

And, with the Great Big Nothingburger list of scary crap that you people have been freaking out over,

WHY, FFS, WHY is it Ohhh so reasonable to be afraid of the climate change that we can't do squat about, but importing people who hate us is smart?

I WANT that list of Dire Warnings that came true that Justifies the ongoing fear of the climate.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 14:11:20

77686E6974734272427A68642F1D0 wrote:

What you want and what you'll get are two entirely different things.

Go ahead and stew - I'll err on the side of clean energy.

Thanks.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 14:20:15

You want clean energy?
What are you suggesting?
Clinton signed a EO making mining the Cleanest Coal we have illegal. Yep, that is correct.. The self same lying not a very nice person who ASSured us that THEY knew better than WeWhoOpposed Nafta and We would Thank them later..
I thank that POS every day.

Why would anyone NOT want clean energy?
Well, unless it's Not,,
Like the windmills and the ethanol, bad ideas.
Ethanol is a good IDEA, but GROWING crops FOR ethanol isn't.
You make ethanol from waste, not a whole crop.
But the corporate farming industry has bought what they need.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 14:24:28

5C4345425F5869596951434F04360 wrote:

You want clean energy?
What are you suggesting?

Solar, wind, tidal, even nuclear (conventional and hopefully in the future, fusion).

Clinton signed a EO making mining the Cleanest Coal we have illegal. Yep, that is correct.. The self same lying not a very nice person who ASSured us that THEY knew better than WeWhoOpposed Nafta and We would Thank them later..
I thank that POS every day.

Why would anyone NOT want clean energy?
Well, unless it's Not,,
Like the windmills and the ethanol, bad ideas.

What's wrong with wind?

Ethanol is a good IDEA, but GROWING crops FOR ethanol isn't.
You make ethanol from waste, not a whole crop.
But the corporate farming industry has bought what they need.

There are plenty of alternatives to fossil fuels.

Oh, I forgot geothermal....

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 14:35:14

Totally underutilized. Hot springs exist and they have a heat source that doesn't take coal or nasty nuke crap.
Ocean waves, tides, lots of energy out there to tap.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by pg on 06/15/17 at 18:04:54

283639383528332E5C0 wrote:

Solar, wind, tidal, even nuclear (conventional and hopefully in the future, fusion).

What's wrong with wind?

There are plenty of alternatives to fossil fuels.

All of those are not realistically viable. Solar, tidal, and wind simply do not generate enough energy to power our modern day society. Nuclear generates enormous amounts of energy; however, the by products have no place to be stored. There is a facility called WHIPP in NM & Yucca Mountain in NV where it would have a safe permanent home; however, their are to many lawsuits that prevent it. The heavy water has been sitting in tanks on top of the ground for decades.

Best regards,

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 18:16:20

Wind farms are ugly, kill birds, don't provide consistent power, requires a huge amount of energy to build, and utilizes lots of materials. It's as goofy as spending all the time and energy to raise corn to make gasoline less powerful and create mechanical problems..

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by pg on 06/15/17 at 18:25:42

2C3335322F2819291921333F74460 wrote:

requires a huge amount of energy to build

Solar is in the same predicament, the cost-benefit ratio nearly nonexistent. Everywhere they could put a dam and generate hydro, they did decades ago. There are not really many viable options.

On a side note, Barry made it illegal to buy wood burning stoves as well. Look that up if you don't believe me, they are phasing them out. That is cold hearted, no pun intended.

Best regards,

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 18:42:57

Clinton outlawed the Cleanest Coal ever found.

And nobody talks about it.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 20:23:45

6C7B7D717E6E1C0 wrote:

[quote author=283639383528332E5C0 link=1497543293/15#16 date=1497561868]
Solar, wind, tidal, even nuclear (conventional and hopefully in the future, fusion).

What's wrong with wind?

There are plenty of alternatives to fossil fuels.

All of those are not realistically viable. Solar, tidal, and wind simply do not generate enough energy to power our modern day society.

LMAO - Not viable? Says who, you? We currently generate over 5% of our nation's power via wind. Between all the other renewable sources and nuclear, we're over 20%.

Not viable my eye...

Nuclear generates enormous amounts of energy; however, the by products have no place to be stored. There is a facility called WHIPP in NM & Yucca Mountain in NV where it would have a safe permanent home; however, their are to many lawsuits that prevent it. The heavy water has been sitting in tanks on top of the ground for decades.

Best regards,[/quote]

To be clear, nuclear would only suffice to be an adjunct to renewable.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 20:25:51

2B343235282F1E2E1E26343873410 wrote:

See my post to pg - and the whole "kill birds" thing - yeah, more die around smokestacks.... so there's that. Ask the farmers who have them on their land how "terrible" they are.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 20:58:15

What's with the relativist thinking?
Because birds die around smoke stacks, let's put swinging blades up and see how many more we can kill?
The energy created versus energy manufacture and the materials, sunk costs, but you like it. Okay

Farmers are Paid for the space. Of Course they are happy.

Show me your claims of dead birds from manufacturing.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 21:00:26

594E48444B5B290 wrote:

[quote author=2C3335322F2819291921333F74460 link=1497543293/15#19 date=1497575780] requires a huge amount of energy to build

Solar is in the same predicament, the cost-benefit ratio nearly nonexistent.

Um, maybe in 1980, but not today. You haven't done much research on it, have you? Solar installs have only gone up by about 1700% in the last 10 years. Doc Brown would be proud - PVs are currently producing over 150 Gigawatts globally.

Everywhere they could put a dam and generate hydro, they did decades ago. There are not really many viable options.

Oh? You sure? How about this: http://www.citylab.com/environment/2015/11/hydroelectric-power-energy-dams/416910/

On a side note, Barry made it illegal to buy wood burning stoves as well. Look that up if you don't believe me, they are phasing them out. That is cold hearted, no pun intended.

Best regards,
[/quote]

Wow - you believe everything someone tells you, huh? It took me exactly 15 seconds to find this quote and link:

What’s actually happening is this. After waiting 25 years to propose new efficiency rules for wood-burning heaters, the EPA in January finally released standards that would require all new devices to burn 80 percent cleaner than those manufactured today. Currently, all 12 million wood-burning heaters in the U.S. only have to comply with pollution standards set in 1988. Out of those 12 million regulated stoves, 9 million are older, less efficient, non-EPA-certified stoves. So-called “pellet stoves” that burn compressed wood or biomass are not currently covered by any federal regulation.

https://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoepareg.htm

Yeah... big bad Obama, coming to get your stoves and your guns....

Too funny!

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/15/17 at 21:05:46

627D7B7C61665767576F7D713A080 wrote:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/09/15/wind-turbines-kill-fewer-birds-than-cell-towers-cats/15683843/

http://thinkprogress.org/chart-how-many-birds-are-killed-by-wind-solar-oil-and-coal-230d2a939bbb

But if you're really concerned about the birds - cats are the biggest killers of all...

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 21:08:16

YIPPEE, remove the birds from the equation.
I don't think they are a good answer.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by pg on 06/16/17 at 03:36:39

6E707F7E736E75681A0 wrote:

Wow - you believe everything someone tells you, huh? It took me exactly 15 seconds to find this quote and link:

Evidently you missed these then........

http://www.newsmax.com/US/heat-energy-wood-stoves/2014/02/18/id/553372/

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/05/obama-administration-faces-backlash-on-wood-stove-regulations.html

Best regards,

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by pg on 06/16/17 at 03:46:08

5C424D4C415C475A280 wrote:

LMAO - Not viable? Says who, you?

Says a relative of mine who who was an engineer for 40 years working for the DOE......

Best regards,

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/16/17 at 06:13:53

637C7A7D60675666566E7C703B090 wrote:

YIPPEE, remove the birds from the equation.
I don't think they are a good answer.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion....

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/16/17 at 06:16:36

3621272B2434460 wrote:

[quote author=6E707F7E736E75681A0 link=1497543293/15#25 date=1497585626]
Wow - you believe everything someone tells you, huh? It took me exactly 15 seconds to find this quote and link:

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by T And T Garage on 06/16/17 at 06:20:55

5C4B4D414E5E2C0 wrote:

[quote author=5C424D4C415C475A280 link=1497543293/15#22 date=1497583425]
LMAO - Not viable? Says who, you?

Says a relative of mine who who was an engineer for 40 years working for the DOE......

Best regards,[/quote]

Well, that's one.... LOL

Look at the facts I posted, look at the fiscal opportunity and the massive growth.

Finally - look at the opposition... hmmm... who could they be?.... It doesn't take a genius to figure out why all the fossil fuel industries are poo-pooing it.

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by pg on 06/16/17 at 06:57:23

746A656469746F72000 wrote:

Finally - look at the opposition... hmmm... who could they be?.... It doesn't take a genius to figure out why all the fossil fuel industries are poo-pooing it.

No argument there, they have a powerful lobby.

Best regards,

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by old.indian on 06/16/17 at 07:21:28

"Climate Change"? Well, in my 75 years I've seen one hell of an increase in pollution.. Just how much impact that has on the climate ?????

8-) P.S. I passed the article along to my "Liberal" relations, and they agreed with much of what she had to say. 8-)

Title: Re: I wish she would come in here
Post by raydawg on 06/16/17 at 08:07:43

I have listened to her interviews before.
One pretty recently re: something about the charge of sexual misconduct....
Yes, the woman displays a intelligent reasoning to her conclusions that I can appreciate.
It's a shame that too many folk would rather spew talking points, unsupported by any investigation in to facts, in their part, a real regurgitation of the news, or whatever source they use to affirm themselves.

I like her, and would love to see her get more coverage.