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Message started by CaptHowdy on 06/12/17 at 14:56:32

Title: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/12/17 at 14:56:32

Yesterday, while tooling around on the Mighty Savage, I found myself sitting at a traffic light, minding my own business, when the motor just suddenly stopped. I hit the starter button and the awfullest grinding noise spilled from the bottom of the engine--like a Jap Zero being shot outa the sky over the Pacific. I managed to push her home where I opened the clutch cover to find the cam chain tensioner shoulder bolt had backed out. It even looked like some broken threads. The c-clip has also broken in two. darn...

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by piedmontbuckeye on 06/13/17 at 06:05:21

Something else for me to worry about!! I'm a worrier!

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/13/17 at 06:48:26

At the risk of sounding seditious, I never had full faith and trust in the Mighty Savage. Don't know what Clymer sez, but I ordered a new replacement shoulder bolt (which is tiny, 6x12) and a new c-clip (that is even tinier). The replacement shoulder bolt will go in with blue Locktite and torqued to 8 ft. lbs. I'll fish around with a magnet for stray metal bits, then check valve timing before a box her up and try to start the motor. I already pulled the spark plug an poked a bore scope down the hole--looked okay.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/13/17 at 07:08:41

If you aren't sure of the timing, use a hand tool to spin the motor. If it's off and nothing is ruined, it could be if you hit the starter.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by eau de sauvage on 06/14/17 at 02:54:52

1E3C2D2915322A39245D0 wrote:

snip

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by LANCER on 06/14/17 at 04:55:47

Check ebay for a replacement gasket, they are usually available for a lot less.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/14/17 at 09:29:20

I walked into an independent bike shop and they Printed out the gasket for$14.00. Call around.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by piedmontbuckeye on 06/14/17 at 11:56:44

7E6C787B6C6A680D0 wrote:

[quote author=1E3C2D2915322A39245D0 link=1497304597/0#2 date=1497361706]snip

Out of interest, all looks pretty clean in there, did you salvage the gasket or was it baked on? I ask because I'm going to have to open the clutch cover in a few months and I was hoping to not have to spend another $35 on a new gasket. If it's definitely going to be cactus then I'll have one ready, otherwise I was thinking if I really need one I only have to wait a couple of days. It's only had a years worth of riding but it did get a bit hot for the first two months till I adjusted the carb.[/quote]

***********

Mine had over 8,000 miles when I removed clutch cover and the gasket did not need replacing. It is some sort of plasticized (?) one, so it had tremendous anti-tearing ability. Worked well on re-assembly.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by batman on 06/14/17 at 15:24:03

On stamped C-clips there is one side where the edges are square and the other the edges are rounded , The square side should be faced toward the outside of the bike when used on the tensioner body.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/14/17 at 15:27:26

That's a nugget..

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by eau de sauvage on 06/14/17 at 16:01:04

OK good call on eBay. Most of them are overseas and postage brings the price up, but I found this one in the UK with cheap postage, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CLUTCH-COVER-GASKET-ATHENA-For-Suzuki-LS-650-F-Savage-Flat-bar-/122030284526 does it looks right? Their data as to what it fits is a bit odd. PS sorry to hijack the thread.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by verslagen1 on 06/14/17 at 17:00:36

As far as gaskets goes they're all the same.
The athena brand is made in italy.
and includes valve stem seals.

one person said one of the non oem brands didn't have the right hole dims in one of the gaskets, don't remember which, don't remember where. not really a problem, just resize the hole.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by madmikesmech on 06/15/17 at 09:17:47

Amazonfor clutch cover gasket...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0167SPT4K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A11LD5TJJRY1G3

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/15/17 at 09:24:19

My clutch actuator o-ring leaked. It's a cheap fix except for pulling the side off,
A new o-ring while you are in there costs a quarter.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/17/17 at 12:37:27

Looking at the CLUTCH side, what direction should the crank turn? The Mighty Savage is jammed in between two other motorcycles and the truck, so I can't just put it gear and figure it out. The spark plug is out and the clutch cover is removed. I'm not optimistic about what I'm going to find.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by verslagen1 on 06/17/17 at 12:54:17

Clock wise... same way wheels turn going forward.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/17/17 at 13:15:08

Dang. I turned the crank slowly (spark plug out) and she stiffened up on me like it was on a compression stroke. Didn't get stuck, but I could see the cam chain "pop". Not like it jumped a tooth; more like getting tight, then quickly relaxed. I guess the head's going to come off for further investigation. Just didn't feel right.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/17/17 at 13:22:08

It's gotta pull the lobe under the lifters, pivoting the lifter and compressing the springs.
Did it roll past the spot unaided once you rotated the crank further?
Did it roll back?

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by piedmontbuckeye on 06/17/17 at 13:56:02

1A38292D11362E3D20590 wrote:

The crank rotates in the same direction as the wheels go when going forward down the road. On right side of bike, that would be clockwise. On left side that would be counter-clockwise.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/17/17 at 14:23:50

As I turn the crank and look into the exhaust port, I can see one of the exhaust valves begin to open as the feel on the crank tightens. Continuing to turn the crank, the cam chain gives a little pop and the crank turns a few more degrees further on its own. Nothing seems to bind or stick.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/17/17 at 14:25:22

2A353334292E1F2F1F27353972400 wrote:

It's gotta pull the lobe under the lifters, pivoting the lifter and compressing the springs.
Did it roll past the spot unaided once you rotated the crank further?
Did it roll back?

You may not have enough information to decide to go ripping into it.
It's possible to cause more complicated problems by moving too quickly into places that aren't messed up.
I never regretted going slowly,carefully, trying to thoroughly think through.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/17/17 at 14:42:55

I can find TDC pretty easy with the plug out and exhaust pipe removed; just no visible timing marks. But, I don't think I can eyeball the difference of a couple degrees if the cam chain has jumped a tooth or two. If nothing binds, and shes got good compression, I might give the starter a bump.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/17/17 at 15:13:46

Roll it over two full passes by hand.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by verslagen1 on 06/17/17 at 15:46:42

The timing port is on the left side.
http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/ValveAdj/timing_marks.jpg

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/17/17 at 17:10:15

The timing plug won't come off with a hand grenade. Nevertheless, the engine won't start anyway. Checked fuel...good; checked spark...good. Next, I will set about making a tool to ease that timing plug off. I don't have an old brake pad, but I got rythem!

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/17/17 at 18:29:39

To check spark

Stick your Plug in the wire.
Ground it, but Stick a Plug in the engine to load the starter motor with Real World work.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/18/17 at 08:55:20

Good, hot spark, an good compression, but she no start, even with a little shot of starting fluid down the snorkel. The timing plug came out with a tool I made from an old '72 Norton Commando rear shock adjusting spanner. Now I start fiddling around with timing marks.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/17 at 11:08:38

You have
Compression
That's air, allowed in,
With Ether
That's fuel, in the air that is compressed
And you have spark
But Nuthin?
It's not bucking or snorting at All?

You seem pretty savvy,, are you getting enough ether in it ?

I don't want to encourage you to go too far, but you might consider hitting the button and start squirting for a second or two.
The valve timing can't be too far off or it would clash, wouldn't it?
I've heard stories about ISIS brand spark plugs that will spark until they are under load.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/22/17 at 14:43:55

Sorry, been offshore all week.

No buck, no snort, no start. Running NGK plug. I need to run the starter motor again with full choke, no ether. Then, pull the plug to see if its wet or dry. I will also open the carb drain and see if gasoline runs out as it should or not. Just do a point-to-point test on all systems.

If the plug is dry, then possible fuel problem. If she's wet, maybe ignition problem. I'll figure it out, either way.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/25/17 at 12:51:12

Been two days scraping the gasket from the left side cover and case. Whada pregnant dog! I got paint scrappers, dental tools an box knife. Slow progress, but I don't want any oil leaks. Endeavor to persevere...

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 06/25/17 at 14:57:01

Cover and case gasket surface nice and clean. New gasket and gray permatex in place to set for 24 hours before torque case cover bolts. Then, back to troubleshoot no start issue. I won't give and I won't ask my brother for advice. Too early for both.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by CaptHowdy on 07/02/17 at 09:02:34

What would make a starter motor not turn? Engine turns free by hand. Clicking sound heard when start switch pressed. Battery cable terminal on starter motor gets hot, but motor doesn't turn.

1. Battery is less than one month old; shows 12.67VDC no load.
2. All electrical connection clean and tight.
3. Starter motor removed and turns freely.
4. Starter motor opened and inspected for dirt, short or open connections.
5. Starter motor removed to bench an connected to 12VDC source, but doesn't turn.

Title: Re: Versy Mod Saved Me
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/17 at 09:59:27

opened and inspected for dirt, short or open connections.

Something is wrong inside.

If You can't get it to spin, take it to be tested.
See what someone who messes with them every day says.