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Message started by Andy RN on 05/31/17 at 18:55:39

Title: Choke Type
Post by Andy RN on 05/31/17 at 18:55:39

I'm reading "Motorcycle Basics Techbook" Haynes, 2nd Ed.

It's telling me that for cold starts "chokes" can either be:
1)"tickling" the float valve to get more fuel in the bowl (only on lawnmowers now)
2) "Cutting off" the Venturi.
3) Or supplying more fuel through a completely separate enrichment circuit.

I'm reading the tech/ref section, but I'm impatient. Can someone tell me which method our choke uses? Thanks. I'm guessing #2.

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Steve H on 05/31/17 at 19:09:34

Our choke is a separate enrichment circuit.

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Andy RN on 05/31/17 at 19:37:36

Great. Thanks, Steve.

Wondering why I don't see a separate jet/nozzle in the fiche for that circuit. Something like a "starter jet".

Sorry if this is already on the list somewhere. I have skimmed the carb section of tech.ref, but I may have missed it. If someone knows where I can find it, then I wouldn't be offended if a link was provided rather than say what has already been said.

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Andy RN on 05/31/17 at 19:40:33

I do see a "transient enrichment valve" though...

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Kenny G on 05/31/17 at 20:31:09

The Transient Enrichment Valve is on the opposite side of the carburetor from the choke.

I call it the brake pedal side of the bike.

Kenny G :-/

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Andy RN on 05/31/17 at 22:19:00

Yes, sir!

Is that what the choke is opening/closing - the transient enrichment valve?

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Kenny G on 05/31/17 at 22:31:04

Andy,

The TEV has nothing to do with choke, as I understand the TEV allows a little fuel into the system when you turn back the throttle. I clean my TEV regularly because I think it helps reduce after firing. If you clean your TEV obtain new screws before you disassemble and use Never-Seize on the threads for reassembly.

Kenny G :-/

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Andy RN on 06/01/17 at 00:00:16

Thanks, Kenny.

Could you offer some insight into what the choke does when pulled out, or what components are involved in the enrichment circuit?

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Kenny G on 06/01/17 at 05:55:21

Andy,

You will have to wait on one of the more knowledgeable people to answer the choke question, that is above my pay grade.

Kenny G :-/

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by stewmills on 06/01/17 at 06:37:21

052B200D3C2F3D264E0 wrote:

If you clean your TEV obtain new screws before you disassemble and use Never-Seize on the threads for reassembly.
Kenny G :-/

...And we recommend getting new stainless allen head screws versus phillips head. Easier to get on and off without stripping. You can possibly find them locally at an ACE or other good supply store. Dave and I think maybe Lancer have been known to sell complete allen head screw packages for the complete carb, but not sure if they have any kits in stock right now. Maybe they will see this post and advise, or you can check around the marketplace.

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Dave on 06/01/17 at 06:43:34

When you pull on the choke......there is a little plunger that moves away from being seated on a passage. The open hole allows more fuel to flow into the idle circuit....when you apply more throttle the affect of the enrichment becomes less, as the enrichment doesn't add fuel to the main jet circuit.

I couldn't find any photo or diagram that showed it well - you just have to trust me on this one until you tear a carb down and analyze it yourself. The graph below shows the idle fuel mix screw on the bottom - but on the Savage it is located father up on the side....and this carb does not have the TEV.

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Andy RN on 06/01/17 at 11:09:32

Thanks Dave!

Where did you get the diagram from?

Also, why would there be an air jet AFTER the slide?

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Dave on 06/01/17 at 11:17:09

The diagram came from an Google "image" search for a CV carb.

The air jet is not after the slide....you are putting 3 dimensional thinking on a 2 dimensional diagram. The dashed line is a passage that passes through the casting, and it is not connected to the venturi. The air jet is in the cavity underneath the diaphragm(18) for the slide, and that space is connected to the large air opening (15) at the top of the carb throat.

The air jet (9) is where the main jet/needle jet gets the air to mix with the fuel, and the jet (16) is where the pilot jet circuit get the air to mix with the fuel.

Both air jets (9) and (16) get filtered air at atmospheric pressure (minus whatever loss might occur as result of the air filter restriction).

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Andy RN on 06/02/17 at 12:01:10

0F34392E3F33282E353D302F5C0 wrote:

The air jet is not after the slide....you are putting 3 dimensional thinking on a 2 dimensional diagram.

Ah, yes! And I'm also confusing the airflow direction - it's from right to left. I see it now. Thanks, Dave!

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/02/17 at 19:26:13

Dave said
The diagram came from an Google "image" search for a CV carb.

And I say

Bullshit,, Dave freehanded that while playing three dimensional chess with Spock, and beating him.

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Andy RN on 06/07/17 at 13:06:51

Here is an excerpt from the Haynes book. In the diagram 2.2g, there is a jet labelled "Starter Jet". As far as I know, we don't have a "Starter Jet" - correct? If not, then what jet is the fuel being sucked up from - the pilot?
Thanks!
http://i.imgur.com/ORKpis0.jpg

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Dave on 06/08/17 at 04:09:40

I do believe we have a starter jet....but it is fixed and cannot be replaced (and the TEV may use the same supply for fuel).

Look at the attached photo. The small brass tube that extends down into the float bowl has a very small hole at the bottom (the brass tube extends down from the carb body and goes into a hole in the front of the float bowl), and I believe that is where the "enrichment circuit" picks up the fuel from the float bowl.

You really should take a Savage carb apart and study it......you will develop a better understanding of how it works.

Title: Re: Choke Type
Post by Andy RN on 06/08/17 at 11:07:39

Thanks, Dave. Taking apart the carb - you read my mind - that's exactly what I planned to do. I will have a few days off from work soon and will disassemble the carb and try to identify all the components and various circuits. When I do that, I was planning to take pictures and label things and then post those pics on the forum. When I do that, I would be grateful if you could check my labeling for errors:)

PS - Stew - thanks for the info about Lancer. I just PM'ed him.