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Message started by stewmills on 05/24/17 at 12:46:29

Title: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by stewmills on 05/24/17 at 12:46:29

You guys here are great...this is in reference to local kinda stuff...

My mother in law had a blocked bathroom sink. Me, the son of a contractor and all around handyman, took my 25' and 50' snake up there and could not get the problem to resolve after exhausting all resources I had with me that day (I have other ones at home, etc.). I even tried to snake from the roof stack since that is a straight shot down next to that specific sink. No dice. Given that this same drain has been giving them (she and my father-in-law before he passed away) problems for a few years I decided...much to my own dismay...to call a professional service and just let them hit it with their commercial grade tools and maybe we would be resolved of this slow drain issue for good and it would be worth a couple hundred bucks or so.

Who you gonna call? Well, I almost went to work for this multi-service company a few years ago that had started a satellite office in my city. I knew frm interviewing with them that they were good honest people and I as well have gotten to know the guy that runs the local branch. I called customer service (followed the process and didn't call my friend directly) and scheduled an appointment.

Well, FIRST they didn't show up when scheduled and after an hour I called and then they explained their tech went where he shouldn't have that morning and was in the adjacent city and they could reschedule to that afternoon instead. They knew it as soon as he went wrong and completely failed to notify ME. I was pissed but agreed to the reschedule. Eventually they called and said someone else came available and they would waive the "diagnostics fee", and we agreed to have him come ASAP. He showed up, and I explained to him by phone what I had done and to kindly do his standard snaking and hopefully he would fix the issue, but if not call me before getting too involved and running up my bill with additional services I was not anticipating.

So, he called a while later and said no success. Said he ran his small snake in about 25' and put the pipe back on about 3 times and the sink was either draining extremely slow or not at all, but EVERY other pipe drains fine to include the tub and stool next to the sink as well as all other toilets, showers, sinks, etc. I'm not an idiot nor was he, and we were both stumped. He told me at that time that my bill for snaking and reattaching the sink pipes, which literally takes 2 minutes or less, was a total of $434. YES, $434 for snaking a drain 3 times...because their pricing dictates that every time they "snake" the pipe and every time they have to "reaffix" the pipes its an additional fee. But wait...he did offer to scope it with his camera equipment and noted that this would be an additional $300, and that based on the tight turns and small pipes he could not even promise he would be able to find and see the issue, but I would still have to pay as soon as that camera came off the truck. WHAT A CROCK OF SHART! And I mentioned that the drain ball valve was worn and needed replacing, and he said they would just replace the whole drain assembly which would cost $240. YES, $240 to replace a part I can buy for $20 and install in less than 15 minutes or less. SERIOUSLY. WHAT ANOTHER CROCK OF SHART!

I told him that $434 nearly had me in the floor, and there was no way I would agree to any additional charges, and had I known that every time his tool touched my pipe that I was being charged I probably would have told him to stop after the 1st try.

I called back today and talked to the customer service manager (still not asking for or mentioning my friend there) and was very professional and polite, but noted the above and how disconcerting it was to know that I now have a $434 bill with NO solution to my issue, and if it was fixed MAYBE $434 would be easier to swallow, but even then that was still a bit aggressive to say the least.

She said she would email me a copy of the ticket and if I had questions I could call the service manager to discuss. Not sure what I will do from this point forward, but if my "friend" didn't work there I would probable cancel and contest the credit card charges until they agreed to reduce the bill to something logical. Unfortunately I am involved in local civic groups and associations and showing my a$$ and it being observed by people that know me isn't a situation I need to create for myself.

In the interim, I did just go online and buy a 45' borescope camera that I can hook to my snake (to get it in the pipe) and phone or PC for viewing for only $20. See here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-7-10-15M-6LED-USB-Waterproof-Endoscope-Borescope-Snake-Inspection-Camera-/152525337584?var=&hash=item238337f3f0:m:m648dtXiGQZfT9GCeHXFDNw

If I go in there and find and resolve the issue that they wanted to try and charge me $800-$1000 to TRY and solve, it is going to be hard not to raise hell at someone. Maybe by this weekend I will have calmed down a bit, but whatever happened to common sense and people running an honest business, well, I don't know. I guess this explains why they all have nice houses on the lake and drive $70,000 trucks while the rest of us struggle to keep a $3000 motorcycle on the road :-)

Thanks for listening. :-/

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/17 at 13:02:48

The drain can't be plugged AFTER where the tub and sink are both connected to the outgoing line.
Sounds to me like it's a sink issue.
Did anyone eyeball the pipe that is removed to run the snake?

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by stewmills on 05/24/17 at 13:06:41

Yes, sink to wall is 100% clear. I personally inspected and cleaned all visible components.

Yes, your point about the location of the "block" is accurate and is my point exactly. Unless some weirdo put that sink on a totally separate main line connection to everything else (not likely) it has to be somewhere between the sink and the next adjacent drain that connects to that line, which is maybe 2' away. I'll know more after I get back over there Saturday.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/17 at 13:24:01

You said the problem started some time back.
Did they replace the sink, Then start having problems?
Does the overfill safety matter?

I'd be tempted to use a bladder with a pressure line and set it up .

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by stewmills on 05/24/17 at 13:33:08

Been getting progressively worse for 3-4 years. Previous snaking did no good, occasional drano would help but just got worse again. No changes to the house before the problem started. Overfill safety is a non-issue...it all goes down the same tube and if the main line is blocked, the overfill is of no use because the water has nowhere to go!

I have a water bladder as well as an air compressor pipe connector (that I made) as well as a vacuum line with a clear line at the main line so I can see what's being sucked out (that I also made) that I will take up there Saturday.

First order of business is to vacuum from the roof stack straight down until no water or debris is visible in the vacuum line, then do the same from under the sink into the main line (o as far as my hose will go) and then see what happens.

Possible there is a collapsed cast iron pipe causing the problem which the vacuum of debris MAY tell me. If not, the next step is to insert the camera (once all water is sucked out) and see what we can see.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by BSTON on 05/24/17 at 13:38:30

Is there by chance a separate vent line for the sink and the shower/toilet?

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by stewmills on 05/24/17 at 13:48:05

Toilet, I think it could be ties to the main line in a different direction based on the location but not 100% sure. It's a concrete slab. Tub, no way. The wall that supports the shower head is interior to the bathroom and less than 18" away on the other side of that shower wall is the sink. I will be shocked to find that they both do not turn down and connect to the same main line in the floor...but crazier things have happened.

I will defeat this...one way or another!

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/17 at 14:00:05

56514052484C494956250 wrote:

Building tools is a sign.. very cool..
I learned a bit reading that. Thanks

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by Papa Bear on 05/24/17 at 14:00:57

No good deed goes unpunished ..... :-/

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/17 at 14:03:33

will be shocked to find that they both do not turn down and connect to the same main line in the floor...but crazier things have happened.

I will defeat this...one way or another.

How would you prove it one way or another?

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by stewmills on 05/24/17 at 14:16:57

736C6A6D70774676467E6C602B190 wrote:

Borescope inspection camera. I will insert it in the roof stack vent, at the sink, and the tub drain and see where they all go. ;)

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/17 at 14:41:41

Since you didn't Say you built the Borescope, I'll assume you bought it.
Sounds Ikkspendsieve.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by bobert_FSO on 05/24/17 at 19:10:25

There are some companies around that don't try to screw everyone.

I had a local drain cleaning outfit come out to unblock a sewer line. I figured roots or something. One guy came out and a little later another helper showed up. They were having trouble getting all the way to the city sewer with their snake. They then used a bladder to pressurize the line. This forced up from the yard in several little geysers.

The problem was the sewer line had caved in and broken. The pipe was what is call Orangeburg, a resin-infused cellulose pipe used back in the 50's. They worked for about 1-1/2 hours before determining that the line had collapsed and there was nothing they could do.

I said OK, what do I owe you. The guy said I owed nothing as they were not successful in clearing the line. I was floored. I thanked them profusely. On the way out, they provided me with the name of a reasonably priced guy that could replace the line.

I was impressed with that company.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/17 at 19:27:12

Well, Yeah, I'm impressed with them..

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by stewmills on 05/24/17 at 20:10:48

JOG, I bought it for $20! See link in previous post.

So, after finally receiving the service ticket via email the plot thickens, and before you say I should be LIVID, I have already emailed them and expect a phone call tomorrow.

Check this out. They charged me $190. YES, $190 to remove a ptrap from under the sink and also claimed it was LIMITED ACCESS. HIGHWAY ROBBERY! I took the ptrap off and back on myself in less than three minutes this past weekend. AND, the bathroom is in a standard ranch style home with a standard 28" door and 20" deep vanity top that is about 5' long with free and open under cabinet space. How this is LIMITED ACCESS and how you charge someone $190 to remove a ptrap is asinine.

The more my wife and I discussed it, it is no longer about the $190 excessive charge (that they better find it in their heart to refund), it is the fact that they did this to a 76 year old widow preacher's wife who is just trying to make ends meet and is sometimes scared to go eat with her friends because she is afraid to spend the $15 and risk overdrawing her checking account.

I have redacted the pertinent details from this invoice, but I have no reservation whatsoever sharing this and noting that this company, despite my knowing they are owned by supposedly good Christian people, has made a huge mistake trying to pull this over on my family.

It is things like this that test your faith and is the very reason why some people get dissuaded from Church when they see supposed honest people of faith practicing dirty tricks like this all for a few dollars.

There are still good, honest people out there. When I do encounter them and do business with them, I make sure to thank them for sticking to their values, especially when it means that they make the occasional sacrifice for the benefit of honesty and good customer service.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by stewmills on 05/25/17 at 08:42:13

...And here's the limited access bathroom...

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by stewmills on 05/25/17 at 08:42:47

...and the limited access under-sink area along with the ptrap that cost $190 to take off and put back on.

REALLY?!?!?!?

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/17 at 09:38:35

Hey! It's Pawlusee, that eliminates the need to think by the employee. It's used to support bad behavior. The employee just shrugs and points to his Mandates. I've been at odds and won a few times.
Just because someone has a policy don't make it right.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by stewmills on 05/25/17 at 11:37:11

Oh...policy or not, I will expect a refund of the $190. They have one opportunity to make it right before I call my credit card company and dispute and reject the charges.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by batman on 05/25/17 at 13:57:12

I have a newer home ( 2010 ) and my sinks have drained slow or plugged a few times ,I hate to say it ,but maybe your bypassing the problem . I doubt it's the drain lines as their pvc ,which doesn't tend to plug. Have you tried removing the sink stopper ,they collect hair etc. over time,many have two sets of blades set at 90 degrees to center them and hair tends to build up on them, especially bathroom sinks ,and can be the problem.When you use Draino it tends to remove gunk from the hair but not the hair itself ,that's why it only halfasts works and the problem returns.All drains usually run to the trap below the toilet then to the main drain/soil stack,the toilet nor the bath/shower are backing up,only the sinks.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by stewmills on 05/25/17 at 14:13:22

2023362F232C767A420 wrote:

The sink itself and all under the sink pipes have been removed and spit-shined by me. Whatever the issue is, it is in the pipe. This house is old enough to where it has cast iron pipes going down into the slab. My best guess at this point is the possibility of a pipe that has eroded and sorta rusted, because when that happens the metal tends to swell and bubble out as it 'rusts' and scales. Drano has no impact, which is another reason I am starting to support the collapsed/corroded pipe theory.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by batman on 05/25/17 at 14:31:54

OK, bum steer .Yes ,if the house was built and used galvanized pipe you could be in for a real nightmare, the galvanized coating wears of the inside of the pipe and rust forms choking off the flow. I've seen it turn 1 1/2 inch pipe into a pipe that only has a hole less than the size of a dime.You may have to rip up the slab and replace with pvc.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by gizzo on 05/26/17 at 14:00:43

since when was being a good Christian and beinga greedy money grubbing prick mutually excusive? some of the most devout Christians I know would sell their own family into slavery for a dollar.
sorry for your dramas. thats crappy service. i

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by SoC on 05/26/17 at 15:25:24

Hey I once had a furnace repair guy from the "Gas Company" spend 15 plus minutes in his truck looking for a tool he did not have to disassemble my blower fan. When he told me he coudn't finish job and would have to come back tomorrow with the tool, I asked what it was and he informed me it was a nut driver of some size.

I went to my tool box and pulled one out and lent it to him to finish the job. When done he hands me a bill with the fifteen minutes he spent in his truck looking for tool as part of the charge (at $60.00 hour).

I dispute the bill and he tells me I have to call office. Office says there is nothing they can do and he was on the job for x amount of time and that's what's owed. Now when I go back out to talk with him he tells me they bill in 1/4 hour increments for time on the job and the time I was on phone took me over into the next 15 minute bill cycle and the bill now needs rewritten to reflect his longer time on the job as I owe an additional $15.00.

This was probably 30 years ago and I immediately taught myself furnace repair and haven't had a service tech at my house since.

Title: Re: You can't do busniess with 'friends'
Post by Rodger on 05/26/17 at 16:36:08

The home my late parents left me had all galvanized iron pipe from the early 50's. The drain from the upstairs kitchen, which was also the washing machine drain, ran slow and would overflow when the washer hit the drain cycle. Replacing the iron pipe would have meant tearing out the finished ceiling of the basement family room. I was able to snake out the pipe, but it would re'-clog every 6-8 weeks. I finally found a build up remover that would keep the build up to a minimum with monthly treatments.

You could try it. Zep brand EDC16 Enforcer Build Up Remover, available on Amazon, $11.99 + 8.99 s/h. Also available at some hardware stores. Like chicken soup for a cold, "Might not help, but it can't hurt." YMMV