|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> A Pastor to Appreciate /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1495210959 Message started by T And T Garage on 05/19/17 at 09:22:39 |
|
Title: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/19/17 at 09:22:39 This is the perfect response to both the "religious persecution" and megachurches in America: http://revolsen.com/2017/05/17/an-open-letter-to-rev-franklin-graham-from-a-small-church-pastor/ |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/19/17 at 09:55:23 No grasp of justice or understanding of right and wrong. Being forced to contract with someone isn't lawful. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/19/17 at 10:02:16 46595F5845427343734B59551E2C0 wrote:
You seem to have missed the gist of the letter.... "Moreover, there is a Christian fellow named Paul (aka Saul) who wrote a letter to a church in Rome nearly two thousand years ago. He said that if your enemy is hungry you should feed him (that’s in the Bible too). So wouldn’t it have been the Christian way to have baked a cake for the same sex couple in your example, even if you deem them enemies (another assertion I don’t quite understand)? I’m confused." It's not about legality - it's about adhering to a Christian attitude. It's about not being a hypocrite. Jesus never shunned a leper.... |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/19/17 at 10:08:17 Lepers don't Choose to be lepers. Being forced to Participate through Creating a Crucial Element of of the Grand Celebration of a Union specifically called an abomination isn't Just. Expecting the Godless and the Unprincipled to grasp it is silly, I know. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by raydawg on 05/19/17 at 10:11:45 Well Jog, we have beat this subject pretty good already..... But that has never stopped me from giving my 2 cents ;D As a bible reading Christian no where do I read I am forbidden in commerce re: my faith, other than being truthful. Nor do I understand a faith that can be threatened by the acts and beliefs of others. Let me try this analogy. I want to build a church. One that I truely believes allows me to express myself through design of that church...... However the city engineering won't grant me permits because they say it will not be a safe structure if built as I want. Is that the government infringing on my constitutional right to freedom of religion? I say no. Faith is unique unto each beliver and only requires a relationship with, and a understanding standing of, the trinity, to have that fulfilling and abundant life of certainly your faith gifts you. Alright, you can donate via PayPal for this sermon ;D |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/19/17 at 10:14:59 If you don't understand my point, I'm sorry. It's been heard and understood by some people who I respect, educated and not so educated, but they are all Christians, and my points are biblically sound and constitutional. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/19/17 at 10:48:31 2F3036312C2B1A2A1A22303C77450 wrote:
Um, no.... Tell me - when did you CHOOSE to be heterosexual? LOL - as much as you think - being homosexual is NOT a choice. But that is a digression... Further and again - it's about being a good Christian. Don't Christians have fellowship? Don't they reach out? Don't they give without consideration of what they get back? I think it's you who might be missing the point. But I'm curious - what are the thoughts on the pastor that wrote the letter? Is he less of a Christian? Is he not worthy to speak the Gospel of The Lord? |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/19/17 at 11:09:24 I'm done with it. I don't care if anyone else gets it. I didn't say hate them or stone them. It's MY RIGHT to Contract with and associate with people of My choosing. Willfully CONTRACTING with them for an ELEMENT OF THE CELEBRATION is wrong. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/19/17 at 11:30:29 405F595E43447545754D5F53182A0 wrote:
Aaaand once again, the initial post has been hijacked/ignored. This actually isn't about gay rights (if you truly read the article, you'd know that). I only answered your first post accordingly.... but anyhoo... It's about the supposed "war on Christians". Now - is this pastor right or wrong in his views? Is he less of a Christian because he doesn't see the "harm" being done to "Christian values"? I don't expect an answer - but maybe you can think about it on your own... |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/19/17 at 13:26:05 That you don't see that I've answered your questions explains why I've really limited my time in here. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/19/17 at 14:19:39 425D5B5C41467747774F5D511A280 wrote:
Really? Well, the FACT is - you didn't answer anything... Come on - just own it. Do you think that the pastor's letter is wrong or right? Do you honestly think that Christianity is "under attack" in this country? Do you think his address to the "big time" pastor was correct in it's assessment? |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/19/17 at 14:47:14 Long before I ever heard of this guy I've seen Christianity as Under Attack. His total lack of grasp of rights tells me he's not right about a lot of things. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/19/17 at 15:06:29 342B2D2A3730013101392B276C5E0 wrote:
FINALLY an answer!!! See was it really that hard to do?? Personally, I don't know how you can say that about a pastor. This is not some guy off the street. He graduated from a seminary in Minnesota. If anything, he's far MORE knowledgeable than the average person - he's right there on the (non-existent) "front lines". Are you an ordained minister? I personally like to see a small church call out a large one like this. The megachurches are a joke in that the pastors are only in it for one thing - the big money. Look at the bigger picture - this isn't about gay rights - this is about mega churches preaching fear and hate. Like I said, Jesus wouldn't have condoned these kinds of bigotry. From what I know of the guy, he was far more tolerant than today's self-proclaimed "Christians". |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/19/17 at 15:58:54 I've been correctly disagreeing with diploma owners for decades. He was Taught. Who taught him? They failed to explain how things work. And of Course you know what Jesus would do. No. But the points of law are beyond your grasp. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by MShipley on 05/19/17 at 16:14:50 There are Liberal and conservative Christians, Franklin conservative, this other fellow liberal....the BOTH can preach the Gospel but ask yourself this? If someone ask a Christian to help them steal should they help? If a Christian is asked to give someone a ride to an abortion clinic should they go? In Paul's letter to the Romans he was expressing that Christians should not hate their enemy, he never once asked them to participate. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by raydawg on 05/19/17 at 16:19:49 LOL...... Look at the bigger picture - this isn't about gay rights - this is about mega churches preaching fear and hate. Oh, only churches.....LOL! Maybe you misspoke, or....???? Ain't nobody, I mean, NOBODY who is NOT guilty of promoting any ideas, to others, for their own gain. You want to say that has never been a wrinkle on your starched panties, them go ahead, you would not know how silly you look to pert near everyone else, no how. BTW, if you quote scripture, you just might, one day, be held accountable to it, as I didn't know I wasn't suppose to, won't keep you outta hell ;D And one more thing, yes, "churches" have fought against all sorts of things, from the earliest days, not just about money, or message. That is mans sin, NOT Jesus's, nor sanctioned, or endorsed, by him. Fact is, he will hold "preachers" of God's word, to a higher standard. However, you will never know God, or Jesus's message, and what it means to the BELIEVER, until you surrender every last ounce of YOUR will unto His, AND......accept His gift of the Spirit. Until then, anyone, ANYONE, saying they know God's will is mistaken, or outright lying, and yes, lying to make personal gains.... AND, we saw how that pizzed off Jesus before, turned over their tables, spilled their goodies all over the tabernacle ;D ;D ;D OK, I am done preaching, I got my own repenting problems to attend to ;) |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by Serowbot on 05/19/17 at 17:06:49 A new study at the U of Kentucky finds that 26% of Americans are closet Atheists... People weren't asked directly, but through a series of revealing questions. When asked directly they deny it due to the stigma. There's no war on Christianity,.. there's a war on atheism... Christians aren't victims they are oppressors... Why else would 25% of the population feel the need to lie about their true beliefs?... Only 3% admit being atheist... http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/04/14/researchers-say-a-quarter-of-americans-may-be-atheists-higher-than-any-survey-has-ever-suggested/ |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by raydawg on 05/19/17 at 19:05:27 485E49544C59544F3B0 wrote:
Gee, I guess we could say that is why the polls were off in the election too, poor Hillary, closet conservatives..... It must be hard to live grasping at stuff to make you feel accepted :-[ |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by Serowbot on 05/19/17 at 22:31:48 Perhaps yes... ...for all of us... |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by WebsterMark on 05/20/17 at 04:46:24 Like I said, Jesus wouldn't have condoned these kinds of bigotry. From what I know of the guy, he was far more tolerant than today's self-proclaimed "Christians". Really? This "guy" said "Do not think I've come to bring peace. I've not come to bring peace to the earth, but with a sword. I've come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother....." That's just one example. He argued against the perversion the religious leaders had done to the "Old Testament Laws" but he specifically pointed out he was to enhance those laws, not remove them. Jesus was the most intolerant of people. He would be convicted of hate speech in many nations today (including this one within a few more years of liberal influence). You (and Sew) have fallen into the trap of letting people tell you what Jesus said. Snowflakes have turned him into some cool guy who would march in a gay parade in the morning , go to a libertarian debate in the afternoon, say a nondenominational, non-confrontational prayer at a multi faith meeting to address Islamicphobis before a vegetarian dinner and a joint with a cup of green tea before bed, probably with an Asian girl who's a vegan and never wears shoes. But seriously, explore this topic by yourself. Start over from scratch. No one would argue mankind has corrupted religion so leave that part out of it for now. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by Serowbot on 05/20/17 at 07:26:18 You have to be pretty selective to see Jesus as violent or intolerant... Remember now,.. the books of the bible are a collection of different writers. There are bound to be a few discrepancies. Overall,... the purpose of the Jesus teachings is to be inclusive... it was originally intended to open up the Hebrew faith to gentiles... |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by raydawg on 05/20/17 at 08:26:33 4553445941545942360 wrote:
That is good Bot :) But remember, and this is where I believe so many folks miss God's message to THEM..... That the bible speaks to THEM, collectively. What I believe is a special message lies within its text, that is directed solely to me/them.... As we are ALL as distinct, and special, as he intended us to be. Understanding that (if you can) means its "interpretation" is solely mine, as were the text written by man, and reinterpreted over time, and languages, to address new meanings, etc, in a changing enviroment. The God I believe that crafted all our eyes see, can dang well talk directly to me, and does, through the means he created, to be able for me to come to his understanding(s). I do not need a pastor, a church, a tax write off, or even you Bot, to be able to come to God. Ya all have a blessed weekend.....its sunny hear, I can work outside, and Trump is outta this country ;D |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/20/17 at 08:31:16 1A043F3E273B322E570 wrote:
LOL - well, the gay couple wasn't asking the baker to join them in bed!! Also, the whole "ask a Christian to help them steal" is not at all the same thing - besides, there's an actual Commandment about stealing... (not one about being gay) The point is - there is no "war on Christianity". This is a fear tactic being used to rile conservatives up. Nothing more. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by MShipley on 05/20/17 at 08:37:00 I'm glad you are all interested in the teachings of Jesus....instead of focusing on on the view of an individual's study of the book of Romans why don't you read It! I often find people want to pull individual scriptures out, interpret it literally (outside of it's contects) and hold it over people. If you want to be literal may I suggest Jesus's statement: I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except though me. Also where he told Necodimus, you must be born again. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/20/17 at 08:51:34 OL - well, the gay couple wasn't asking the baker to join them in bed! Ohh, well that certainly countered my points. Ridiculous.. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by raydawg on 05/20/17 at 09:06:15 1E003B3A233F362A530 wrote:
Uh, yap....... Tis' the only way you will hear God speak to you.... I mean, heck yeah I'm good, ::) but my words are utter nonsense, as spoken in tongue. A person can only hear, of that which they try to understand. You look to find deniable, you shall find your desired results. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/20/17 at 09:42:18 283E29342C39342F5B0 wrote:
^^^What he said |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/20/17 at 09:58:56 Well fellas - as we can see, herein lies the problem with religion. Interpretation. You cannot say that the pastor I refer to is not a Christian. He preaches the Gospel (read his other blog posts), he evangelizes, he teaches his congregation, etc. So then - I guess you could say his "brand" of Christianity is different than others, no? Given that - it's logical to relate the same thing to all religions. It's therefore silly to think that any one religion is "right". Even though I'm agnostic, I appreciate this pastor's POV more than the megachurches and the "Christians" that condemn others based on their skin color, sexuality or religion. Keep it real boys - the right wing "Christians" do that all the time. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by MShipley on 05/20/17 at 10:04:56 I always find it interesting how nonchristians feel they know more about the Faith than those who live it. You say we are guilty of judging while you pass judgement just as the author of your article was doing. I have learned in life that the best place to be judgemental is in front of a mirror, perhaps you should try that. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/20/17 at 10:18:03 1B053E3F263A332F560 wrote:
Don't cast dispersion so easily. I said that I appreciated the pastor. How is that me knowing more?? Do you suppose you know more than the pastor?? LOL - talk about being judgmental... Get over it - not everyone will meet your ideal - nor will they meet mine. But from what I glean from Jesus' teaching - the view of the pastor is far more in line than that of the megachurch. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/20/17 at 10:34:49 Being Less Wrong isn't so great. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by raydawg on 05/20/17 at 11:01:34 475956575A475C41330 wrote:
I do not believe you engage others with honest intent..... You do not seem to look for enlightenment, learning, of another POV, no, you passively aggressively try and manipulate under a pretext, that you do NOT adhere too, re: your own critique. You see things how you WANT to see them, how you NEED to see them, and cast out your net to gather others, yet fault others for their beliefs, actions, in sharing and believing their own POV/beliefs You say Jesus was, yet you appear to discard, deny, or overlook other teachings by him.... You are very selective in your reasoning, and either fail to see your complicity in the dividing of folk (by design by others, perhaps?) or so deep within your need to be on the "right team" you have lost any perspective, you might have had in questioning that (motives) about yourself, that you charge others with.... I can't answer that, I can only pose a question.... You seem sincere, tho I would say lost to reality. Again, not my reality, that to is subject to the same influences you are visited by/with.... I merely read your statements, on multiple topics and post, and that is my conclusion. It is sad, for when any of us do this, it renders us to a point of no consequences, ignored, like the little boy who cried wolf. Offered freely, no expectations, unsolicited, worthless, perhaps. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by WebsterMark on 05/20/17 at 20:12:08 Overall,... the purpose of the Jesus teachings is to be inclusive. That is perhaps the most incorrect statement ever made on this forum. Everyone's welcomed inside, no one's excluded, as long as you're the same as everyone else inside. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/20/17 at 20:22:59 5D4E564B4E58482F0 wrote:
I'm going to need help with that last paragraph... Not sure what you meant by any of it or if you were just trying to be philosophical... On second thought, don't bother - thanks. Suffice it to say, once again a posting has been taken on a tangent.... oh well. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/20/17 at 20:32:10 7C4E49585F4E59664A59402B0 wrote:
"Everyone's welcomed inside, no one's excluded, as long as you're the same as everyone else inside. " Ummm... Huh???? That sentence makes no sense.... LOL .. It's null. You can't say "no one's excluded" and then say "as long as..." Too funny! |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by WebsterMark on 05/21/17 at 05:25:18 The fact you don't understand should be concerning to you. Think about it. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by MShipley on 05/21/17 at 07:27:13 Actually T I think you are a great example of what Franklin Grahm is talking about. Your hate and Bigotry against something you obviously do not understand. I invite you again to come, check it out, Jesus's love and salvation is actually open to all including you. |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by raydawg on 05/21/17 at 09:09:23 I'm going to need help with that last paragraph... Not sure what you meant by any of it or if you were just trying to be philosophical... On second thought, don't bother - thanks. Suffice it to say, once again a posting has been taken on a tangent.... oh well. Hhmmmmmm....... Perhaps I am not making myself clear, let me try to spell it out. The very thing you find troubling with mega churches, etc, is their manipulation. The message is only an avenue to their own gain. Be it anti gay, etc, it used to garner support so the leadership of that mega church can enrich their own personal gain. Ditto for corporations. Ditto for Trump. Ditto for republicans. Ditto for any person or group you disagree with in their belief and mission. Even me, as I project ;D Why.......???? Because in your mind, you are absolute authority...... You have solved all the riddles intellectually, for us, thank you. Now that you, the great Oz, has spoken, you act like Trump, with your LOL's, and claims of topic jack, etc... With a smug dismissive attitude, I can only imagine, er, I mean project, you like Trump does with his wrinkled up puss face of arrogance, as he shakes his head side to side, only needs to put his little fingers in his ears to make the picture complete. Maybe you just want us to coddle you, is that it? :-* Or, maybe you should not "project" yourself, unless you can stand the heat in the kitchen. I will say this, you are very entertaining ;D |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by Serowbot on 05/21/17 at 09:23:07 You sound pretty smug yourself there, Dawg... |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by raydawg on 05/21/17 at 10:03:14 4D5B4C51495C514A3E0 wrote:
Oh yes I am, thank you for keeping me in check! ;D |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/21/17 at 15:06:09 605255444352457A56455C370 wrote:
What's to understand? It's no different than someone saying - "This forum is open to everyone, as long as they're republican." Please.... tell me how what you said is any different??? LMAO!!! |
|
Title: Re: A Pastor to Appreciate Post by T And T Garage on 05/21/17 at 15:28:54 786B736E6B7D6D0A0 wrote:
Oh pshaw - you're gonna make me blush! I'm glad that you're entertained. But I can't hold a candle to most of the others (including you) on this little forum |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |